My Installation Story (and questions)

[PARAL]

Hi all,

Thanks for the wealth of information that I am gaining as we approach our first burning season.

My wife and I just bought our first house in July and we have always wanted to wood heat our home and now we have our own home! We were happy to find the house of our interest had a centrally located fireplace. We have opened up the floor plan between the living room, dining room and kitchen and the staircase 10-15 feet from the fireplace. After lots of struggling over which insert to get we ended up buying Quadra-Fire 4100i. We just wanted to buy it and store it until we were ready for the install since the talk around town is a back-order of wood and pellet heaters. We are now getting ready for the install so I want to work out the details with the chimney and the SS liner.

I was just up on the chimney and measured the flue which is 23' from the clay lip to the floor of the firebox. It is a straight run and the clay liner is 12"x8" OD. I was not able to look down the chimney since it was the outer flue and I didn't have a small ladder up there with me. But looking from inside the fireplace I see tons of flaky creosote on the inside, above the damper. The previous owners had an old "Timberline" insert which was not vented with anything ... just an open hole in line with the damper.

I am going my brother's chimney sweep friend come and clean it for me and maybe help me install a SS liner. So, I have the same old question about which is the best liner. I have read a lot of posts and determined that a 6" rigid liner would probably be the best in terms of maintenance and durability even though it may cost a little more and it is harder to install. It shouldn't be too bad since I have straight run ... I hope!

The only challenge that I see is that flue is inline with the left corner of the fireplace. What do I do? Run 20 feet of rigid and then some flex to attach with the insert? Any opinions/recommendations??

Check out the picture below ... I was figuring that I don't need to insulate the liner ... does anyone disagree?

Thanks for all your help so far and I hope you can help me out here.

- Phil

 

[granpajohn]

I am no expert, but was moved to reply because I installed the same insert. In general, I agree with your plan.

Because the chim is interior, the insulation may not be needed from a heat/draft point of view. However, if the existing chimney is broken/cracked, they say the insulation is required to meet NFPA. It doesn't sound like you're in that boat, and I would skip the insulating. My chimney is exterior, and I insulated my flex SS. Am happy I did this because my chimney is also short and needs to be warm for proper draft. The 4100i needs strong draft. You should be OK.

I agree with the rigid. I don't know, but I believe that a short run of flex at the bottom is the usual method of attaching it to the insert/stove.
Do you have any problem getting past the exisiting flue damper? Mine was a bit of a pain.

 

[PARAL]

Do you have any problem getting past the exisiting flue damper? Mine was a bit of a pain.

granpajohn, Thanks for your input! The fireplace opening is plenty large for the insert but the back wall is only 13" deep by the lintel. I busted out the damper but I am sure that I will need some angled adapter to make it through. The place I bought the insert from recommended a 30 degree kit.

 

[PARAL]

Does anyone know if I need to get a new rain/chimney cap or will the one I have work fine? Is there any benefit with the ones that are sold with the liners?

FYI: The flue closer to the ridge is for my oil boiler and it has a liner.

 

[Valhalla]

I have an identical set for my fireplace chimney and side by side seperate oil burner flue in the main house chimney. It has worked well for years.

 

[PARAL]

I have an identical set for my fireplace chimney and side by side seperate oil burner flue in the main house chimney. It has worked well for years.

Is it centrally located too?? If so did you insulate it?

 

[granpajohn]

Does anyone know if I need to get a new rain/chimney cap or will the one I have work fine? Is there any benefit with the ones that are sold with the liners?

FYI: The flue closer to the ridge is for my oil boiler and it has a liner.

I think that the old cap might work to keep out the birds/bats, but I think the idea is also to seal off the annular space between your new liner and the terra cotta (old) liner. This helps to keep heated air from rising out of the house. Some folks put a bit of insulation up there at the top also, under the cap. This is cheap and easy, so if you can devise a way to make a closure with a reasonably fire resistant material, you can save $25 (or whatever those caps cost now). On the same point, I supppose you've read all about using a block off plate at the bottom? It'll keep your heat at home.

Oh, and the 13" lintel depth is probably OK too. The insert is lower than one would initially guess. In order to help me plan my (one man) installation, I just used a cardboard box of the same dimensions as the insert. This is overkill, but if you have any concern about it fitting, do it.

 

[PARAL]

I am thinking of getting the ForeverFlex / RockFlex liner from Rockford.

I am wondering if I need a special connector to my insert due to the angles. However, I am not sure how flexible the liner is.

Please check out my picture and let me know if you think I could make it with a straight connector or if I need a 15* or 30* or more.

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Great diagram. From the looks of it, a 45 coming off the stove should put you in good alignment if there's sufficient clearance.

 

[jbrown56]

Paral,

When I installed my rigid liner, I removed the entire cap and flue liner down to the bricks. I then had a ss cap made to fit over the existing cap with a 6 3/16" hole punched out in the middle and the sides have a 2" return. This application has worked well for me and it looks neat and clean.

Jim

 

[PARAL]

Thanks All!

Jim, I was thinking about that but I think that I will just order the top cover/plate for my 8x13 clay liner. I then will try to fit my current rain cap / spark arrestor over the plate.

 

[PARAL]

Well, I am in the process of updating the inside of the house and I currently have the area around the chimney ripped down to the studs. The refrigerator is on the back side of the centrally located chimney ... opposite the the fireplace insert. I didn't like having the fridge so close to the heating source of the house but I am stuck with it. So now, I want to reduce the amount of heat by the back of the fridge ...

I am thinking of putting up kraft faced fiberglass bats up (kraft paper away from the chimney). The chimney has 1-2" clearance from the studs and I figure that the wood studs would catch fire before the fiberglass. I guess it might be better to put kaowool or rockwool but it is not easy to come by and it is more expensive.

What about maximizing my insulation ? 3.5" fiberglass only gives me R-13 ...

What do you think?

Again, thanks for your help ... I love having this venue for flushing out my thoughts!

 

[PARAL]

Bump ... Can anyone help me out with this?

 

[edthedawg]

I wonder if you could put 1" thick panels of foil-backed foam in there between the studs - foil facing the chimney, then insulate w/ the R-13 against that. But all in all, I don't know that you really want to restrict that heat spreading to the kitchen, do you? Back of the fridge is pretty warm to begin with - is it going to even notice the wall getting a little warm behind it? Could you cobble together some kind of a muffin fan heat exchanger to pull that otherwise wasted heat off the back of the fridge? That convection alone might be what you're looking for. If the basic construction leaves studs facing the chimney, they will still get hot despite any insulation added between them.

 

[pinewoodburner]

I belive the code requires an airspace between the chimney and any framing. The air space prevents the hot spots on the framing by the direct transfer, two materials touching. As far as insulating your liner, unless you have your chimney certified that your flue is not damaged or has any cracks in the morter, insulate the limner. It will cost you about $250 dollars more, but will bring you up to code and your insurance company will not be able to deny a claim if you have a clain due to the chimney.

 

[edthedawg]

Insulation in this case would essentially be a vermiculite material (kinda flaky and loose) poured down from the top around the liner, right?

 

[PARAL]

I wonder if you could put 1" thick panels of foil-backed foam in there between the studs - foil facing the chimney, then insulate w/ the R-13 against that. But all in all, I don't know that you really want to restrict that heat spreading to the kitchen, do you? Back of the fridge is pretty warm to begin with - is it going to even notice the wall getting a little warm behind it? Could you cobble together some kind of a muffin fan heat exchanger to pull that otherwise wasted heat off the back of the fridge? That convection alone might be what you're looking for. If the basic construction leaves studs facing the chimney, they will still get hot despite any insulation added between them.

Thanks, I was thinking the same with the foam + R-13 ...

Regarding the heat into the kitchen ... it is an open floor plan so the heat will definitely pour into the kitchen. So this may all be a null point since it will be warm in there anyway. I guess I was just figuring on blocking the direct radiant from the bricks.

 

[PARAL]

I belive the code requires an airspace between the chimney and any framing. The air space prevents the hot spots on the framing by the direct transfer, two materials touching. As far as insulating your liner, unless you have your chimney certified that your flue is not damaged or has any cracks in the morter, insulate the limner. It will cost you about $250 dollars more, but will bring you up to code and your insurance company will not be able to deny a claim if you have a clain due to the chimney.

Thanks ... although I do have proper clearances around the chimney. Chimney and clay tiles are all in great shape so I decided not to insulate the SS liner.

The chimney has 1-2" clearance from the studs and I figure that the wood studs would catch fire before the fiberglass.