My russian fireplace / masonry stove

[arcticcatmatt]

Hey all! My first post!

I bought my first home this summer and it has a russian fireplace aka masonry stove. Anybody know more about the design of this one? I don't see any online exactly like it.

Oh geeze, thats a crappy picture. I will take a new one tonight!

It just has a entry door for the firebox and one clean out door above that. There is a sliding draft up top. Ignore them bigger pieces burning in the picture. That was when I was learning how to use it. I know them are too big now.

 

[dumbodog00]

I don't know the name of it, but I believe it is supposed to heat the brick surrounding the firebox and all other brick. When it gets hot, it will give off a steady radiant heat for a long time, even after the fire goes out.

 

[Dill]

Hey Matt. (I'm also on SF with you)
You basically heating up the brick and then using it as a heat sink.
My grandfather built one is his house, and fired it with salvage pallet wood. He was fan of quicker hotter fires.

 

[arcticcatmatt]

^ Wow small world! Are you dill on there?

Yeah I know what it is and how it works, I am wondering what the inside design could be. There are many designs online but I don't see this exact one.

 

[Dill]

Yup I use the same idea as you. I'm always Dill.
As the builder the only masonary heaters I've run into are one offs, by masons.

 

[Valhalla]

Europeans have used masonry "stoves" ovens for hundreds of years. You have a custom designed one here, as most are to fit the design of the house. Search the web for more info and also your town library, if you have an interest.

Good luck with it and burn it safely.

 

[branchburner]

Pretty neat. I've looked at hundreds of photos over the past year and have seen nothing quite like that. I'm wondering - can't tell from the photo - are the bricks in the firebox ceramic, or just regular brick? Also curious if it holds and gives back heat with just a small fire as designed.

Did the previous owner give you any info on it - build it himself, or a local mason?

(You may already know this, but your wine glasses may tend to gather a bit of a greasy/dusty film if you don't have a good kitchen exhaust fan!)

 

[Cath]

There are some masonry heater associations out there that may be able to help you.

This one has a lot of useful information online: http://mha-net.org/

Also, they recently added a Yahoo chat group for Masonry Heater owners. Try Googling for that. If you don't have any luck PM me and I'll try to dig up the link for you.

This may be a bit of a long shot, but depending upon the age of the house you might try contacting the building inspector and/or Fire Dept. to see if they have any information on file or if an inspector can tell you anything from memory, since this is somewhat out of the ordinary.

Oh, and definitely do some research and consider having it inspected, since if I remember correctly running it properly is important to preventing carbon monoxide poisoning. Which brings me to another point, you should probably get a good carbon monoxide detector.

Good luck.
~Cath

 

[Martin Strand III]

Historically, there are many styles of masonry heaters designed in different countries: German, Russian, Swedish, Finnish and more - all popular in Europe going back centuries.

They all have some features in common:
* Thermal mass - "tons" of masonry acts as a heat bank absorbing heat from the fire and slowly releasing it into the room hours later
* Their 7000 - 12000 lb mass requires a solid free standing foundation down to bare earth - they cannot rely on floor joists for support; thus hard to add to an existing home
* Long exit flame path containing at least one 180* turn - this provides masonry surface area for heat absorption
* Clean burning - they all allow burning wood without damping down incoming air for more complete combustion and super hot spectacular fires
* Inner masonry liners separated from an exterior veneer - this allows for thermal expansion between 'interior' and 'exterior' veneer and prevents cracking
* Safety - the masonry releases heat slowly and surface temperatures usually are below 190* F preventing skin burns and allowing close wall tolerances
* Etc.

I have a finnish designed "contraflow" masonry heater. Its core was made by TempCast. A mason added brick then tile for the veneer. See it here:

https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/fireplaces/source/tilestove.html

The second chimney is for a basement Harman TLC 2000 wood/coal stove.

For more information, go to

http://www.mha-net.org/

Aye,
Marty

Addendum: Masonry heaters are site built (some come in 'kits' for DIY) and fall under the general building code (like old fashioned fireplaces) and not under the mechanical code like metal stoves.

 

[branchburner]

I have a finnish designed "contraflow" masonry heater. Its core was made by TempCast. A mason added brick then tile for the veneer.

How is that TempCast core working out? I was considering that. It's a few bucks, I hear.

 

[Martin Strand III]

I have a finnish designed "contraflow" masonry heater. Its core was made by TempCast. A mason added brick then tile for the veneer.

How is that TempCast core working out? I was considering that. It's a few bucks, I hear.

I haven't seen the core, except for the inside of the firebox, since it was assembled in 2004. Judging from the crack free veneer, the incredible heat output (about 250,000 btu from 50 lbs of hardwood), less wood consumption over previous metal stoves I've owned, the cooking ability and the sheer joy of the fire - I'd say it's more than OK.

Bucks I paid in '04 are most likely different ones than you'd pay now. If you're interested, check with TempCast.

Aye,
Marty

 

[branchburner]

I have a finnish designed "contraflow" masonry heater. Its core was made by TempCast. A mason added brick then tile for the veneer.

How is that TempCast core working out? I was considering that. It's a few bucks, I hear.

Judging from the crack free veneer, the incredible heat output (about 250,000 btu from 50 lbs of hardwood), less wood consumption over previous metal stoves I've owned, the cooking ability and the sheer joy of the fire - I'd say it's more than OK.
Aye,
Marty

Yeah, they really sounded like the way to go, but couldn't plan it to mesh w/ my small ancient house. Thinking of building one outside then doing the addition around it. If the addition doesn't get done, at least I'll have a really nice (expensive) outdoor pizza oven!

 

[gpcollen1]

Now I am jealous all over again. I am still thinking of retooling my downstairs fireplace into one of those but it needs a plan. And I need to DIY it for it to mean anything to me...so it'll be a while.

 

[branchburner]

DIY, yes. Ballpark 10k otherwise, I suspect.

 

[Martin Strand III]

DIY, yes. Ballpark 10k otherwise, I suspect.

COSTS OF A MASONRY HEATER - Part I

“Today, many people think nothing of spending tens of thousands of dollars for an automobile that holds its value for a very short time.  But the investment in a masonry stove is truly rock solid.  As part of a home remodeling project or new home construction, masonry stoves easily pay for themselves -  in reduced heating costs, increased comfort, and added value to the home.”

http://www.fnaturalhomes.com/fountainheat.htm

Aye,
Marty
Grandma used to say: "Everything is relative."

 

[savageactor7]

No offense but anyone that spends money on building one those heat sink stoves needs their head examined.

White elephant.

 

[Martin Strand III]

COSTS OF A MASONRY HEATER - Part II


Owners report that their investment in this heater has paid for itself in traditional home heating costs after only 6 heating seasons.

There is one other important if not vital thing to consider with talk of money and payback.

Anyone, with a masonry heater, is making a fractionally larger long-term payment, (added pro-rata principal and interest due to masonry heater), in return for receiving short-term benefits, such as decreased wood consumpton, a cleaner chimney, few needed replacement parts and a safe comfortable heat source which doesn’t need much tending so it’s a nice thing to have now. But if the world went to crap it would be great to have since you can get heat, cooking, and hot water with few moving parts. So it’s not only an investment, it’s also a hedge against risk.

A payment in return for decreased risk and more certainty with regard to return on investment is called insurance and if one takes a look at it that way, then these look even better as ‘investments’.

--Commercial Real Estate Insurance Person

Aye,
Marty
Grandma used to say, “Sometimes less is more.”

 

[branchburner]

No offense but anyone that spends money on building one those heat sink stoves needs their head examined.

White elephant.

I'd have to disagree. The amount of wood you use in minimal, the heat is more even and stove is one of the safest possible ways to heat. You do get a return on your investment.

That said, it works best w/ an open concept, new construction, perfect-draft scenario in a cold climate, and if you don't time your fires well you can end up overheating the house. And it is a long term investment that is best suited to a house you intend to own for a long time, or know you can sell to someone who will appreciate it for the asset it is.

I struck out on all counts, otherwise I'd be happily having my head examined right now.

It is the next logical step in the progression from $400 smoke dragon to $2400 EPA stove, but only in the right situation.

 

[Martin Strand III]

No offense but anyone that spends money on building one those heat sink stoves needs their head examined.

White elephant.

Grandma used to say: "It's not just the blind that don't see."

Aye,
Marty

 

[Dill]

I wish I had pics of the one my grandfather built in the late 70s. All of the bricks came from a chimney that UNH took down. So free materials. He took a summer off work and built it in the basement. The firebox was in the basement, on the first floor he had the main chimney with an oven/warmer built in. And a pipe it through an old potbelly stove to pull off more heat. Then he had 3 different flues running through the upstairs that he could open and close depending on what heat was needed. It held an 1930s 1800sq ft house at temp all winter. And all he burned was pallets that he salvaged from UNH in a trailer pulled behind his VW rabbit. The whole thing was genius. Unfortunatly he had to sell the house and the new owners had the system taken apart.

 

[Dill]

sorry for the double post.

 

[Martin Strand III]

COSTS OF A MASONRY HEATER - Part III

Costs (of ‘expensive’ $25K masonry heater) are relative.  And, remember, it’s for essential home heat. 

SAVINGS/PAYBACK CALCULATIONS (‘Tight’ new 2900 SF main & loft home - open style floor plan)

Nov ‘04 - Oct ‘08 (48 months)
With Masonry Heater/Harman TLC 2000
$2876. (1278 G) LPG Purchases, actual @ $2.25/G ave (stove, H/W, Onan 12K generator)

$ 300. Cordwood Purchases (Rotator cuff inj shoulder 3/05)

$ 250. Anthracite Purchases (basement stove)

$ 65. Chainsaw/tractor fuel
__________
$3491. /48 months = $ 73./month

Without Heater/Stove - Est Expenses
$7200. LPG ($300/mo x 48 mo/2)

$7200. LPG cost 4 years w/o add’l heaters
- 2876. LPG cost 4 years w/ add’l heaters
_______
$4324. Saved in 4 years in LPG alone

BUT, I burn my own wood, so
$3200. Saved from not buying most firewood (4 cords/yr @ $200/cord x 4 years)
$1881. Average saved per year

$25K/$1881. = Payback is 13.3years (worse case) without adding up non-essential experses (below)


For just 1 year, add up what you spend on non-essentials such as:

$25000. Your second or third vehicle (I have one)
$3000 - ? Your boat (I have three and I admit it’s a weakness, sorry)
$15000 Swimming pool for your house
$125000 Your “hunting cabin” or second home (I have one home)
$1500 Tobacco $5/pk x 300/yr (a vice that’s not nice)
$3600 Ethanol $10/day (wine, beer, booze)
$50000 - ? Your mistress (Been thar, done that - a real waste)
$2500 Eating at restaurants (I do this modestly)
$3500 Hunting and fishing trips (I quit killin’ things long ago)
$1000 Blown pocket money, ATM w/drawls (Everyone does this)
? “Stuff” you bought but haven’t used in at least a year
(It adds up)
$$Big Bucks A divorce or two (see a few lines up;no comment)
Yada, Yada, Yada

and the cost, ease, safety, effectiveness, eco-friendlyness and convenience of a big hot rock (aka masonry heater) in your home doesn’t seem so out of the question.

Aye,
Marty

 

[arcticcatmatt]

Someone asked about the liner brick. I am not sure what the difference is. I am assuming its standard fire brick.

I took a picture of tonights fire. Still doing small burns, thats keeping the house at 65-70 ish and its getting as low as 25 at night out.
fire box empty

 

[arcticcatmatt]

The burn is so efficient there is almost no smoke coming out of chimney. When I have coals (about 45 mins for this small burn) I shove them back, bank them, and close draft so its only open 1/2 an inch.

 

[Martin Strand III]

The burn is so efficient there is almost no smoke coming out of chimney. When I have coals (about 45 mins for this small burn) I shove them back, bank them, and close draft so its only open 1/2 an inch.

I doubt this, judging from the black walls in your firebox, which looks very large. My masonry heater firebox has no black unburned wood creosote or residue left on the walls after a burn; it's clean.

Aye,
Marty