Napoleon 1400C (Banff) Operating Temp?

[Franklink]

New member here but I've been reading and learning from the forum for a few weeks.

We just had our 1400C installed earlier this week.

The manual suggested a few small fires to dry out any moisture in the firebrick and to cure the paint. Took it to 400 degrees with the first fire on Tues night and 600 with the second on Weds night.

First fire was a handful of splitting trash for kindling, 3 pieces of 2x6 about 4 inches long each, and 1, 4 inch Ponderosa Pine split cut from a down/dead tree (slightly punky and fairly light so assuming quite dry). The manual actually used 2x4 cutoffs as a suggested size of wood for the break-in fires. I left the draft completely open the whole time. This was the 400 degree fire.

Second fire was another handful of splitting trash for kindling, and 3, 4 inch Ponderosa Pine splits (same condition as above). With 1, 6 inch split of very dry aspen. The aspen was dry enough/punky enough to remind me of balsa. Again, I left the draft open the whole time. This was the 600 degree fire.

Tonight my wife was cold (menstrually induced chill) and actually requested a fire (major victory since she has kind of been dragging her feet all along about the stove). So I loaded it up pretty full for the first time, everything the same as above, but used enough of the 4-6 inch Ponderosa splits to fill the fire-box about 3/4 full (firebox is 2.25 ft squared on this stove). The temp on this fire went to 700 degrees and was in the "Too Hot" area of the thermometer. The stove seemed to operate quite well with the first full load and the inside temp of the house went from 67 to 75 within 1.5hrs. Once the fire was going well (secondary gases and all that) I did have to throttle it down with the draft adjust to nearly closed. Once the draft was mostly closed, the fire maintained that 700 degree reading for maybe 2 hours and then started to decrease. I needed to get to work (working nights right now), so I added 2 of the really dry 6 inch balsa-like aspen splits on an extremely hot bed of coals when the stove temp was around 450. It shot right back up to 700 and stayed there (she was texting me thermometer readings after I left) for another 2 hours and then started to decline.

All of the temps were measured with a Condar Inferno magnetic stove top thermometer. The thermometer was placed on the actual sheet metal stove top under the flip up cast iron decorative surround. From looking at the stove itself and the schematics in the manual, I am placing the thermometer right above where the secondary combustion gases are released, slightly left of center-line of stove.

I was never afraid of a run-away fire because the draft control really seems to have good control over the stove. The draft has five graduations with 5 being most open and 0 being most closed. If I close it down to zero, the slow lazy flames instantly disappear and I just have glowing coals. The draft control was at 1 for the 700 degree fire described above.

I'm thinking of trying to verify the thermometers readings by placing it in the oven. The stove manual says it operates best at temps between 250-450. According to the thermometer, I am well above that temp.

My conclusion from these first few fires is that if I load the stove up, I get operating temps of 700 degrees. Is that okay? Is the thermometer just slightly off? Could my wood be too dry? No, I do not have a moisture meter. I do however, live in Northern Arizona and for most of the year humidity levels are in the teens. My wood was harvested from very dead and very dry wood and now sits in full sun with the broad side of the stack facing the prevailing southwesterly winds.

(Sorry for the length).

Thank you in advance for any advice provided.

 

[Squirrel]

The manual for the stove says "You can safely fill the firebox with wood to the top of the door and will get best burns if you keep the appliance pipe temperatures between 250°F (120°C) and 450°F (270°C)"

But it also says ".An appliance thermometer offers a guide to performance and should be located 18”(457mm) above the flue collar.

This puts your temps at the upper end of safe operating range. If you want it to run cooler try closing the input air a little sooner.

 

[Franklink]

Thanks for the reply. I must have missed the "18inch above the flue collar," in the manual. I have double-walled pipe. I presume that I would need a probe thermometer to get an accurate measurement? Are you familiar enough with the stove (or other similar stoves) to make any generalizations about correlation of flu temps to stove-top temps?

 

[Squirrel]

Question 1.... Yes. Question 2....No
General opinion around here says the probe will read about double the temp of a surface mount thermometer.

 

[begreen]

Try closing down the air a bit sooner and take it down to 0 when the fire is going strong as long as it doesn't start smoldering. There will still be air getting to the fire at 0 setting.

 

[Franklink]

Begreen, thanks for the recommendation to start closing down the air sooner, worked perfectly tonight. I closed it about halfway when the fire was still building (thermometer said 375-400) and it topped out at about 575-600 instead of last nights 700. Put more heat into the room this way too (thermostat temp went from 67 to 77 fast-so achieved a higher room temp faster), wonder if I was losing a lot of heat up the pipe with the hotter burn?

I am so far really impressed with this stove. When I got home this morning at 745, I still had red coals and the stove top temp read 150. I had last added wood to it at 800 the previous evening. The coals were warm enough that a paper towel I used to rub off a small amount of soot in one corner of the glass burst into flames when I threw it on them. So, I got an almost twelve hour burn out of really dry, past its prime, punky wood. Manufacturer suggests 9 hours. I could have laid some more wood on those coals and had her cranking out the heat again but its been pretty warm in the days (low 70s) so a morning fire wasnt necessary. Nice to know that preliminary indications show that I might still have usable coals in the morning once winter really starts and 24/7 fires are necessary.

 

[begreen]

wonder if I was losing a lot of heat up the pipe with the hotter burn?

Yes, a flue thermometer helps you see this.

Sounds like you are getting the hang of things. That's a decent burn for funky wood. Burn times will drop a bit when the stove is pushed harder (650F) and the weather is bitter.

 

[The Principal]

I have the same stove!

 

[Franklink]

How long have you had it? Assuming that you've had it longer than my week, any pearls of wisdom you'd like to share?

 

[The Principal]

I've had it for one season. I'm a newbie to wood stoves, as I've had fireplaces.

The only advice that I have may be obvious to most, but was a new experience to me.... For overnight burns I learned that I could load the stove from the bottom all the way to the top, with the wood going north/south (ends facing door and back wall). Once I get it up to temp, I would close the air almost all the way down. This would give me the longest burn. I didn't realize how packed I could truly load the stove....That and of course, use dry wood.


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[The Principal]

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[Franklink]

Nice set-up, I really like the inside wood storage, but I don't think my wife would go for it. Your picture brings up another question: using the gloves for reference, it looks like most of your splits are 3-4 inches, (I see some smaller and some larger but most seem to be around the 3-4inch size) have you found a lot of smaller splits gets you a longer burn than a couple of larger splits? I would think it would be easier to load more fully with smaller splits but I'm curious what your experience has been. Seems like with more surface area exposed, the smaller splits would burn up faster (and maybe hotter?) but that's just me overthinking it probably. I'm all ears as to what proved best in your first year with it: more small splits or fewer large splits?

 

[The Principal]

I also have smaller kindling off to the side you can't see. For your question, I am not totally sure, but I think the kindling gets the fire started, spread, and stove up temp, then the air is the limiting factor. I pack the stove tight enough where I am not sure of the effects of split size. Once you have a hot base of coals, I am not sure it matters. I have heard that bigger firebox's are more efficient loaded; Something about it being better to have a big fire in a small stove than a small fire in a big stove.


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[jrb737]

Hello Frank, I have had the 1100C since 2005 and it has always worked flawlessly. It is used at at a mountain cabin so it doesn't get used constantly as this is a vacation home and I am there once or twice a month in the winter. . It is however the primary heat source for the cabin. I put one of those thermometers on the pipe since day one and have found it very useful. I keep the temp on the thermometer between 250-450 and each time I have a chimney sweep come out (about once every 4 yrs) he says I am burning
at the proper temp since the chimney is never too dirty. I also use one of those creosote logs a couple times a year as well.

At night I will cram it completely full, get a hot burn going and then close the air intake to between low and 1 and it will burn easily for 7 hrs or more.

 

[Franklink]

Hey I appreciate your input! We've been getting down to the high 30's/low 40s most nights lately and have been lighting up at least a small fire nearly every night. This 1400 will get our 2100 sq ft fairly warm. Usually when the interior temp gets to around 67 my wife will ask for a fire, without pushing it very hard I can get the main area of our house up to 76 degrees pretty quick.

I played around with our central hvac on fan only with the fire going and a streamer held at the top and bottom of doorways to figure out how the heat circulates. It seems like the central fan moves it around pretty good.

We're burning mostly pine. I went out and cut 5 cords of ponderosa pine, 3/4 cord of aspen, and I bought 1 cord of alligator juniper. We also have about 2 wheelbarrows of some apricot from a tree in our yard that needed trimmed.

I see you're in Fort Collins. We lived in Laramie for a few years. I know the area and I'm assuming you're burning pine species? Are your 7 hr burns typically with pine?

 

[jrb737]

Hello Frank., yes that is all I have on my property is pine, alot of beetle killed trees so I have enough firewood to cut for several years! I would love to burn some hard wood in it because I hear how nice that burns. As you know the pine can burn fairly quickly if not packed tight. Once I get the cabin heated up I usually just throw a good sized split log in about every couple hrs or so and keep the air supply lever pushed in to about 2.

My cabin is in Red Feather lakes, CO just south of Wy in the Roosevelt Nat'l Forrest. Elevation is about 9200ft. The cabin came with the Nap. 1100C, however I would have chosen the one you have with a larger firebox. It is a puzzle when I load it at night to get all the logs in there just right! Once it is packed just right I will get it going good and push the air supply lever in to about "low" to 1.

The best accessory to draw the heat from the stove is a ceiling fan that you can see in the living area from the pics and one in the kitchen to further help circulate the heat. I do not have or even have a need for a blower on the stove itself.

 

[Franklink]

I just looked on a map at Red Feather Lakes. From 287, looking southwest, you are in some beautiful country! Some pretty dang cold country too. I remember that stretch of 287 feeling like I was driving on top of the world, especially looking southwest to your area and seeing all the snowcapped peaks-in the middle of the summer! I live at about 5600 feet in Northern Arizona, and, while we do get the snow and some relatively cold weather when compared to the rest of AZ, I do not miss those -45 degree days in Laramie. Good to know that our little Napoleon can hold its own, even in REAL cold country like where you are.

We opted out of the blower on our stove too. Figured we'd give it a try without and see how it did before we spent the extra couple hundred bucks. That reminds me of another question: how hot do your closest combustibles get? We dont have a corner install like yours but the installer did allow for the six inches required clearance in the back of the stove. When I get the stove up to temp the drywall will get warm to the touch. I have ameliorated the problem but just pointing a small desktop fan in the area between the stove and the wall. The drywall stays cool to the touch as long as that fan is blowing the air back there.

 

[jrb737]

I haven't had those Wyoming cold days there, I've seen -15 and with the wind, that is plenty cold! It's the wind that cuts right thru ya up there in the winter at times. However it can be 20 degrees, sunny and no wind and it is actually comfortable standing or working in the direct sunlight.

As far as combustibles go I really don't have any thing next to it except the ash pale you see in the pic. The rock behind the stove is warm to the touch, but definitely not super hot. I suppose the rock helps radiate some heat as well.