Napoleon NPS45, cake forming in burn pot

[geek]

Cleaned the unit to test a bag of Fireside Ultra from Home Depot and ran it for around 12 hours on low heat.
Burn pot seems to always get a cake or clinker as I also burned Maine Wood pellets last year (MWP) and some Somersets and needed to clean the burn pot daily running on heat #3.

I clean my unit with a vacuum from outside, wondering what else I can do to at least burn for 3 days without needing to clean the burn pot....

I know this is not a Harman and probably the unit is pellet picky, but there's gotta be something I can do to improve this thing....

Any other NPS45 owner out there?

This is the free standing unit.

 

[ScotL]

I have a Napoleon here in the office. There are 2 cleanout covers on the back wall near the burn pot. One is on the lower left and one on the lower right. I have had to clean those out before to get a decent air flow. I've also had to clean out under the burn pot. The dealer has also had to come out once about 3 years ago and he took out the combustion fan and vacuumed out the fan and the chamber it's connected to.
Then of course there's always the holes in the burn pot to check. I've also had problems with the alignment and seating of the burn pot before.

 

[geek]

I know I cleaned those cleanout covers left and right of the burn pot, basically tap on the metal to get ash out and then vacuum.
Last year I removed the combustion fan to replace its gasket and vacuum around it as well.

How long do you go without cleaning the burn pot?
Which pellets have you tried, do all pelelts work well for you?
Do you ever get that 'cake' or clinkers in the burn pot?

Thanks for sharing some thoughts/info..

 

[ScotL]

This stove is just in an office so it's only used 6 hours a day at the most. Just in the mornings mostly. It always starts out turned up on high to get rid of the chill and then gets turned back to low.
I clean it once per year and I take out the burn pot maybe 3 times a year to turn it upside down and tap it. I do that when I dump the ash, which shows how little we actually use the stove. I have seen a cake in the pot before but only when I'm using to stove to "dispose of" a bag of pellets the salesman has brought me to test in my lab. Other than that, I never see any burn pot buildup.
I just took a picture of it's current condition. It's been 2 weeks since I cleaned it and we've used it about 4 times. There's some ash around the burn pot but the holes always seem to stay clean. I don't know how that extra pellet managed to fall in after it shut down. It must have been teetering on the edge.

 

[stellep]

Could be the pellets. I've had some bags from a batch do this and others not.

 

[jtakeman]

This stove is just in an office so it's only used 6 hours a day at the most. Just in the mornings mostly. It always starts out turned up on high to get rid of the chill and then gets turned back to low.
I clean it once per year and I take out the burn pot maybe 3 times a year to turn it upside down and tap it. I do that when I dump the ash, which shows how little we actually use the stove. I have seen a cake in the pot before but only when I'm using to stove to "dispose of" a bag of pellets the salesman has brought me to test in my lab. Other than that, I never see any burn pot buildup.
I just took a picture of it's current condition. It's been 2 weeks since I cleaned it and we've used it about 4 times. There's some ash around the burn pot but the holes always seem to stay clean. I don't know how that extra pellet managed to fall in after it shut down. It must have been teetering on the edge.

Pretty clean pellet your burning!

 

[alternativeheat]

I burned 5 bags of FSU last year and couldn't wait to get them burned up and gone. My Harman burns anything but these made a mess. Still, you wouldn't want think they should form a cake. But if you grab a couple bags of Douglas Fir pellets as a test and hey should burn clean. If they don't then you have another issue.

 

[geek]

I burned 5 bags of FSU last year and couldn't wait to get them burned up and gone. My Harman burns anything but these made a mess. Still, you wouldn't want think they should form a cake. But if you grab a couple bags of Douglas Fir pellets as a test and hey should burn clean. If they don't then you have another issue.

Don't tell me the Fireside Ultra is that bad....I have 4 tons from HD coming in this Saturday. It is my best option for pellets right now unfortunately....

 

[geek]

This stove is just in an office so it's only used 6 hours a day at the most. Just in the mornings mostly. It always starts out turned up on high to get rid of the chill and then gets turned back to low.
I clean it once per year and I take out the burn pot maybe 3 times a year to turn it upside down and tap it. I do that when I dump the ash, which shows how little we actually use the stove. I have seen a cake in the pot before but only when I'm using to stove to "dispose of" a bag of pellets the salesman has brought me to test in my lab. Other than that, I never see any burn pot buildup.
I just took a picture of it's current condition. It's been 2 weeks since I cleaned it and we've used it about 4 times. There's some ash around the burn pot but the holes always seem to stay clean. I don't know how that extra pellet managed to fall in after it shut down. It must have been teetering on the edge.

Burn pot looks really clean.
How's your unit installed?
Mine goes straight out and then up like 3 feet.
It has an outside air also connected.

 

[Tim Linden]

Don't tell me the Fireside Ultra is that bad....I have 4 tons from HD coming in this Saturday. It is my best option for pellets right now unfortunately....

My first season I used them and they burned great, nice fine ash they generated. The last
season I used Green Supreme and got gritty ash. This year I've got the FSU again. I think
they vary season to season and load to load, I remember a thread a while back where everyone
was surprised at how they burned that year.

 

[alternativeheat]

Don't tell me the Fireside Ultra is that bad....I have 4 tons from HD coming in this Saturday. It is my best option for pellets right now unfortunately....

The bags I had produced a lot of ash. That was last year in the middle of our pellet crisis so who knows. But a lot of people love them. I'm not one.

 

[ScotL]

Burn pot looks really clean.
How's your unit installed?
Mine goes straight out and then up like 3 feet.
It has an outside air also connected.

This stove does not have an OAK installed. The exhaust vent is just straight out of the wall through a thimble - maybe a 2 foot long piece - with a 45 degree piece on the end of that pointing down. The 45 degree piece also has a grating in it to keep out small animals.
This stove isn't operated very much though. I don't think it uses much more than a ton per year. I haven't used more than 1 bag yet this year.
It also has no thermostat. So all we do is press the start button in the morning, if it's cold in here, and later on we open the lid and let it burn out. Maybe letting it burn out is what keeps our burn pot clean? If it was used as the only heat source, we wouldn't be able to do that.
Wish I could be more help.

 

[jtakeman]

Geek, Like I said when we went to look at the NPS45, I was afraid it was going to be a picky SOB!!

http://www.superiorstoneandfireplace.com/ is getting a load of the Okies Douglas Fir. Try a few bags and see how the stove burn em. Or like you said check BT for La Crete's. If you can't find any let me know and I'll see what I can find. Problem now is many dealers are tight and hard to track down as most are delivering to customers. Some one has to have a few bags of something we can try that shouldn't cake/clinker. If it doesn't cake? Then its the pellets

If it still cakes, Put the stove on CL. And check out this stove for about $2400. You wont be sorry and box store stuff will be no worries anymore!
(broken link removed to http://pacificenergy.net/products/pellet/)

 

[geek]

Pacific Energy? Never heard of that brand, is it multi-fuel?

 

[jtakeman]

Pacific Energy? Never heard of that brand, is it multi-fuel?

No but its designed with an agitator(self cleaning burnpot) for high ash pellets. A bud just bought one and loves it.

Pacific Energy has been in the wood stove business for years and this is their venture into the pellet world and designed to compete with the Enviro M55.

I'll send ya a link with picks of the install!

 

[geek]

Thanks Jay, I realize you DID mention and note that stove like 4 years ago, look at this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pacific-energy-warmland-pellet-stove.50901/

I should've listened back then....

I'd love to change the stove but budget is not there.
I am really thinking about this Napoleon, there's gotta be something to improve this.
Now I remember I never changed the window gasket, plus the top latch on the side that closes this front door is not really tightening up good like the bottom one....wonder if the door is not making a good seal and reason of the air not working properly?

I changed the exhaust motor gasket last year (made it with a big piece of material I bought online) but know I didn't do a good job, and should probably go back and replace it again.

Wondering if all these would contribute to the air problem as the unit looks like starving for air in the burn pot.

Went to BT and got 4 bags of North Country softies.
Also stopped by a local warehouse and they have North American (blend) and bought a bag.

.

 

[jtakeman]

I know bud, Moneys tight and the economy stinks. If you find a better pellet that runs decent(no cakes). It might be worth spending a bit more to get ya by.

Some things you could try are enlarging the holes in the burnpot and or talk to member don2222 and ask him about a combustion blower impeller upgrade to increase air flow for the crappy pellets.

Good luck!

 

[geek]

Thanks.

I spoke to the vendor where I bought the unit from (very nice person to deal with) and he agrees that something is not right in terms of the air, he is going to speak directly with Napoleon support and will call me back.

 

[ScotL]

You might be onto something there with the gaskets.

 

[fevest]

I have the nps 45 insert. Never had that issue. I agree you may have an airflow issue. I have burned this stove for several years, only issue is convection blower replacement. If you have the digital control you can adjust the combustion blower speed. It explains how in the manual.

 

[geek]

I have the nps 45 insert. Never had that issue. I agree you may have an airflow issue. I have burned this stove for several years, only issue is convection blower replacement. If you have the digital control you can adjust the combustion blower speed. It explains how in the manual.

Thanks, yes I have the digital control panel and had up the fan trim all the way to 5 but no help.
I will be ordering the gasket for the exhaust blower and possibly the door gasket as well.

 

[geek]

UPDATE:
I started the stove around 5am today, using a bag of North Country softwood pellets.
It's been about 12 hours and this pellet is burning nicely, no cake formation that I can see and the flame looks fine and healthy..!!

Soooo, seems like this unit likes softwood more than hardwood
I am still working with vendor to speak to Napoleon tech support for their final thoughts.

North Country at a local place for $310/ton plus $25/ton delivery....

Last Saturday I put a hold on my Home Depot Fireside Ultra because I am SOOOO undecided..!!
I think I will get the FSU in hopes to get a resolution to the air flow, will take Jay's suggestions in consideration as well.

 

[jtakeman]

The reason for no ash cakes is the North Country has about half the ash content of the FSU's.

Because your stove doesn't have a damper to adjust for higher ash fuels. There are pretty much only 2 things that might help besides changing the fuel. 1 is the burnpot holes would need to be enlarged slightly and the second is more combustion blower CFM or air movement. Seeing you have the blower adjust all the way up. I'd take to don2222 and ask for a blower wheel that will increase blower CFM.

Tell @Don2222, The wheel should be the same size as the Breckwell/Enviro that uses the 6" gasket.

 

[Don2222]

The reason for no ash cakes is the North Country has about half the ash content of the FSU's.
Because your stove doesn't have a damper to adjust for higher ash fuels. There are pretty much only 2 things that might help besides changing the fuel. 1 is the burnpot holes would need to be enlarged slightly and the second is more combustion blower CFM or air movement. Seeing you have the blower adjust all the way up. I'd take to don2222 and ask for a blower wheel that will increase blower CFM.

Tell @Don2222, The wheel should be the same size as the Breckwell/Enviro that uses the 6" gasket.

Hello

The Napoleon is like the Quadrafires, they have the Large 9 Petal exhaust blower impeller. I found that going to the Large 11 Petal impellers, the pellets burn more completely.
I upgraded to this blade myself with a nice 1.75 amp Gleason Avery exhaust blower and it burns great!
See pics
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...from-9-petal-to-11-petal.130754/#post-1763828

 

[geek]

Well guys, called Napoleon and spoke to a friendly person on the phone.
They're sending me a new combustion blower gasket, door gasket and hinge.
The guy agreed that there's an air flow issue and maybe the combustion chamber is not pressurized for some reason.

I will do the dollar bill test on the front door today and see what happens, then I will replace these parts when they arrive.
From that point I will then consider making changes to the exhaust blower impeller and all that.

Will keep you posted...