Napoleon vs. Jotul wood inserts

[jamkam]

Greeeting all...Appreciate all the good folks here breathing fire about their favorite -- and not so favorite-- stoves.

Bear with this newb wood bloke. Been reading a LOT lately and have decided on an insert for our raised ranch lower level fireplace, the house is 2300SF approx., and we'll install one or two registers above the stove to circulate upstairs (and get electric blankets for the kids).

Having looked at the Jotul-Rockland 550 (my wife likes the look and the flush fit) we kind of decided to bite the bullet. Bu not feeling we looked at everything possible, we wanted to see if there's anything some of you would recommend that we may have overlooked esp. something a tad more affordable that Jotul 550 is $2700-2900 around here and that's WITHOUT install which figure to run another 1200-1300 clams.

As coincidence would have it, we needed our oil burner cleaned for the season and I was mentioning it to the service tech. He said he's buying a Napoleon. Seems a lot less finessed but the chimney installer says they're workhorses.

What have you folks experienced? Thanks!

 

[karl]

Cutting in registers isn't safe and from what I hear it's not too effective either.

For 2700-2900 dollars you can have about any insert made. Why don't you look at Pacific Energy. I have there Summit and it's a heat monster compared to the jotel you mentioned. They also have a Vista model that is probably alot closer to the jotel in size. I paid 2045 for my Summit last year.

 

[jamkam]

Thanks, Karl. I had not heard that doing registers isn't effective or safe. A contractor and an installer w/ many years of experience both mentioned it as a good way to circ. heat. I've read about the PE but it's not widely available here. I'll do more research on it tho. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Well, that is not quite correct. The Jotul 550 has a lot bigger firebox than the PE Vista. It's a 3cu ft stove like the Summit. But I agree that you should check out a Summit insert for comparison. It's about $2400 for the base model. It looks like there is a PE dealer in Stamford:

Nordic Stove & Fireplace Center
220 Harvard Avenue
Stamford, Connecticut
USA 06902
phone: 203-406-9881
website: www.nordicstoveandfireplace.com

 

[jamkam]

Well, that is not quite correct. The Jotul 550 has a lot bigger firebox than the PE Vista. It's a 3cu ft stove like the Summit. But I agree that you should check out a Summit insert for comparison. It's about $2400 for the base model. It looks like there is a PE dealer in Stamford:

Nordic Stove & Fireplace Center
220 Harvard Avenue
Stamford, Connecticut
USA 06902
phone: 203-406-9881
website: www.nordicstoveandfireplace.com

Thanks, will check it out. The only hitch about dealers down in this neck o' the woods is they tend to be the priciest in the region. I've already seen the Jotul going for over 200 bucks more down here and installs to match. I've found much more reasonable (and less arrogant) dealers when you venture further out of the NYC commuting range.

BTW, anyone have any info/links on Karl's caveat on registers? I was really figuring that installing a nice sized one would help immensely w/ heat circulation.

 

[begreen]

Danbury, New Milford, Waterbury and Wethersfield also have PE dealers. Check the PE website for dealer locations. www.pacificenergy.net

There is a lot of info about floor vents in previous posts. It is a very common question for basement installs. Basically, if you can avoid violating the barrier between floors, do it. In some states cutting unprotected holes in this barrier is a code violation. In the least, one should install fire dampers with a fusible link when making these penetrations.

What are the expectations for this stove? Do you expect even heat on each floor? Most often that won't be the case. The stove is primarily an area heater. Figure each floor above the stove being about 10 degrees cooler unless there is a large unrestricted passage for the heat to travel upward and displaced cool air to travel downward towards the stove. By large I mean a big open stairwell, centrally located and near the stove.

 

[rockreid]

I live in Stamford and ended up buying from Yankee Doodle a little farther out in Wilton. I had whittled by choices down to the Avalon Olympic and the Jotul Rockland. My wife also liked the Jotul's flush fit and this is a big reason why we went with the Jotul. The Olympic has a little better heat output specs but it sticks out a couple of inches from the fireplace as well. The wife didn't like that but also just simply preferred the overall look of the Rockland better. We bought in May before the big rush and I understand prices may have already gone up a few $ hundred since.

The dealer in downtown Stamford, Nordic Stove, is already booking installations in November, so if you buy there you might want to hurry and get on the installation list. I was in there 2 weeks ago to buy a few accessories- oh, and one more thing- they may be on vacation (sign on the front door), so call first before going.

 

[jamkam]

Danbury, New Milford, Waterbury and Wethersfield also have PE dealers. Check the PE website for dealer locations. www.pacificenergy.net

...snip...

What are the expectations for this stove? Do you expect even heat on each floor? Most often that won't be the case. The stove is primarily an area heater. Figure each floor above the stove being about 10 degrees cooler unless there is a large unrestricted passage for the heat to travel upward and displaced cool air to travel downward towards the stove. By large I mean a big open stairwell, centrally located and near the stove.

Thanks molto mucho. Expectations are limited. We're hoping for the best and expecting somewhat less. One dealer who came out to look dissuaded us from putting a free-standing stove in our rather cramped upstairs steering us to the insert in the existing hearth-- easier install, better location of wood pile, less mess and not cooked by the proximity of a stove. Bedrooms will suffer for sure, but we don't like it hot to sleep like most.

After reading a lot here I've looked into the PE Summit as well and am calling the dealer in Danbury later today. I was very impressed w/ the honesty of the Napoleon dealer I spoke with yesterday (Papa's in Branford). They were the first I've spoken with who gave me the name of their installer (a life-long 2nd gen. chimney sweep/installer) who called me right back and gave me the straight poop on the whole installation. He also suggested having the fire marshall approve the install, not the building dept. so they're coming tomorrow to look at clearances as well via a vis the floor registers.

Fortunately our layout with the fireplace on the first level is somewhat conducive to heat flow. There a large high ceiling, open stairwell 16 ft from the hearth so we feel we'll get good heat flow upwards, to the living area which also has a paddle fan.

 

[jamkam]

I live in Stamford and ended up buying from Yankee Doodle a little farther out in Wilton. I had whittled by choices down to the Avalon Olympic and the Jotul Rockland. My wife also liked the Jotul's flush fit and this is a big reason why we went with the Jotul. The Olympic has a little better heat output specs but it sticks out a couple of inches from the fireplace as well. The wife didn't like that but also just simply preferred the overall look of the Rockland better. We bought in May before the big rush and I understand prices may have already gone up a few $ hundred since.

The dealer in downtown Stamford, Nordic Stove, is already booking installations in November, so if you buy there you might want to hurry and get on the installation list. I was in there 2 weeks ago to buy a few accessories- oh, and one more thing- they may be on vacation (sign on the front door), so call first before going.

So you're happy w/the Rockland? My wife likes the Jotul looks better too, but I'm still not sold on it..so dang pricey!

Yeah, I tried a few times to call Nordic, so I think you're right. Many of the local dealers (Ynakee Doodle too) are haughtily saying they can't install until even December they're so busy! A few phone calls will find someone like Papa's or V&V;in New Milford who have stock and not dishing out that "take a number" attitude. Oh, and FWIW , Yankee Doodle is right near us; they'd be the last people I'd go to. They wanted to charge us 150 bucks just to do a site inspection... and they're among THE most expensive retail we've seen. Wasn't going to mention names but they are so arrogant -- they'll suffer no lack of business this season.

 

[rockreid]

I guess I called it right back in April when I started research into this wood burning thing. When I bought from yankee Doodle in May I only had to wait 2 weeks for installation, and they had a Rockland in stock. It was in the 40's degrees for only one night after install so I have not had a real chance to burn for any length of time but for that one night it was really putting out some good heat! The blower may bother some, but my house is generally noisy anyway so it doesn't bother me in the least. As far as Yankee Doodle being arrogant, they were fairly busy back then and I physically went to the store. I imagine with all the calls they must be getting by the hour now with the craze full on, the guys there are slammed to the wall with people wanting their stoves NOW.

*Make sure any insert you get has a blower! The Avalon Olympic blower was an option, and I was figuring that into the price when comparing it to the Rockland (blower standard).

 

[FrankMA]

We just had our Jotul C550 installed and it looks great. We had looked at several inserts but when we saw the C550 we were both sold.

As many have said on previous posts, it's like a piece of furniture and is something you want to be happy with many years down the road. The extra money spent will be forgotten long before the insert will require replacement.

We're very happy we went with the Jotul.

Best of luck with your purchase.

 

[begreen]

After reading a lot here I've looked into the PE Summit as well and am calling the dealer in Danbury later today. I was very impressed w/ the honesty of the Napoleon dealer I spoke with yesterday (Papa's in Branford). They were the first I've spoken with who gave me the name of their installer (a life-long 2nd gen. chimney sweep/installer) who called me right back and gave me the straight poop on the whole installation. He also suggested having the fire marshall approve the install, not the building dept. so they're coming tomorrow to look at clearances as well via a vis the floor registers.

Fortunately our layout with the fireplace on the first level is somewhat conducive to heat flow. There a large high ceiling, open stairwell 16 ft from the hearth so we feel we'll get good heat flow upwards, to the living area which also has a paddle fan.

Good to hear that you are having the fire marshal check it out. Please let us know his opinion on the subject of floor vents.

I have to disagree with the statement about a freestanding stoves. With stoves like our Alderlea or soapstones, you can sit right beside them and not feel overheated. I would expect similar results from a jacketed steel stove like the Napoleon or PE freestander.

I like Napoleons, but there are quality differences between them and a Jotul or PE. This is not to knock them, they are good burners that really put out the heat and offer a good value.

If you can post a picture of the possible stove locations and some rough floor diagrams we may be able to offer some alternatives. But it sounds like you are started on the right track. Ask lots of questions and pick out the stove company and installer/dealer you feel will give you the best service. Stick with 3 cu ft firebox stoves and you will do fine. You'll probably want to run the ceiling fan in reverse (blowing upward) in the winter. By the description of the house it sounds like heat will migrate fairly well.

 

[Roxburyeric]

We had a 550 installed in May (haven't used it yet). We purchased from V&V;in New Milford and a hired a sweep from Bethel to install (better price and materials than the sub that V&V;was going to use). We went with the Jotul for looks and the flush fit so no need to mess around with the raised hearth we have for clearence issues. Send me a PM for more details.

 

[The Dali Lima]

Are the Napoleon stovesd made in the USA?

 

[begreen]

Wolf Steel is from Canada. But I think they do have a USA plant too.

 

[jamkam]

FYI on the whole register and code issue. The local fire marshall said a register is not against code in my type of dwelling, i.e. a raised ranch w/ an open stairwell.