Need a recommendation for a modern wood stove

[scotty]

Hello All! I'm new to the group here ....but not new to wood stoves. We live at 7000+ feet in the Colorado Rockies, and have done all of our heating with wood for many years. After trying about a dozen different stoves in as many years, we finally settled on a Vermont Castings Resolute with the stainless steel mineral-filled stovepipe --- that was back in the mid 1980s and the combination has been exceptional. But it is time to get in step with the new EPA phase II type of stove. And I am at a loss as to which way to go.

That old stove has worked so well for so long that I'm out of touch with the market. Some features that we would like to retain are top loading, thermostatic draft, totally air tight, and good quality cast iron. Those are the things we enjoy now, but it won't surprise me if newer stoves have all of these features plus more I haven't even though of.

Hopefully I can tap into the accumulated wisdom of the groupl for some recommendations & comments.
Thanks, scotty

 

[restorer]

Hello All! I'm new to the group here ....but not new to wood stoves. We live at 7000+ feet in the Colorado Rockies, and have done all of our heating with wood for many years. After trying about a dozen different stoves in as many years, we finally settled on a Vermont Castings Resolute with the stainless steel mineral-filled stovepipe --- that was back in the mid 1980s and the combination has been exceptional. But it is time to get in step with the new EPA phase II type of stove. And I am at a loss as to which way to go.

That old stove has worked so well for so long that I'm out of touch with the market. Some features that we would like to retain are top loading, thermostatic draft, totally air tight, and good quality cast iron. Those are the things we enjoy now, but it won't surprise me if newer stoves have all of these features plus more I haven't even though of.

Hopefully I can tap into the accumulated wisdom of the groupl for some recommendations & comments.
Thanks, scotty

WELCOME! Scotty,

I'd turn your question around and ask why you should buy a new stove. Your experience and satisfaction with your stove should be a base for questioning why you should dump a bunch into new whistles and bells.

Just my 1994 outdated opinion.

Tomorrow is tweak day on the mother board.

 

[JMF1]

I would recomend a new stove purely on the basis of efficiency and emissions. I'm no "tree-hugger" obviously but there's nothing wrong with helping conserve our environment when we can. The newer stoves are a dream to operate also.

I recomend the Lopi/Avalon stoves.....I've owned both and are happy with them. There are many good products out there though and shortly you will be getting many opinions on them.

You may even be close enough to Roo-spike and his PE..............so you don't even need any heat of your own!

 

[BrotherBart]

For a top loading cast iron stove I would look at the Vermont Castings Encore. The only top loading steel stove I am aware of is the Harmon Exception.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Some here fall in love with a brand for who knows why :lol: . One silly fool who flames when there are any negative comments about "his" adopted brand. Look for reliability, after sale support for problems (that don't always blame the user), and reputation for value. Stoves are one of the few products sold without any objective 3rd party evaluations of quality and efficiency and reliability, except for EPA testing.
Remember that it is a small market, small margins of profit for manufacturers and dealers. For a $2000. plus appliance, they can do a whole lot better supporting the consumer.

On that note, in the face of all the PE fans here, might I say that I am 100% completely satisfied with my Jotul, it has performed well beyond what I had expected of it, is built extremely well, has beauty and grace that complements my home, and if it ever came down to it I could drop it on a VC and crush it like a grape! :coolgrin:

-- Mike

 

[BrotherBart]

On that note, in the face of all the PE fans here, might I say that I am 100% completely satisfied with my Jotul, it has performed well beyond what I had expected of it, is built extremely well, has beauty and grace that complements my home, and if it ever came down to it I could drop it on a VC and crush it like a grape! :coolgrin:

-- Mike

I knew it would happen here someday. "My stove can beat up your stove!"

 

[sgcsalsero]

Maybe this is stating the obvious . . but I got a ton oughta the stove ratings section of website . . I the wanted the jotul oslo but got the veto from the boss . . go Eagles

 

[ourhouse]

Welcome Scotty there are a lot of members with newer VCs and a guy named ELK knows a lot about them.

 

[seaken]

Hello All! I'm new to the group here ....but not new to wood stoves. We live at 7000+ feet in the Colorado Rockies, and have done all of our heating with wood for many years. After trying about a dozen different stoves in as many years, we finally settled on a Vermont Castings Resolute with the stainless steel mineral-filled stovepipe --- that was back in the mid 1980s and the combination has been exceptional. But it is time to get in step with the new EPA phase II type of stove. And I am at a loss as to which way to go.

That old stove has worked so well for so long that I'm out of touch with the market. Some features that we would like to retain are top loading, thermostatic draft, totally air tight, and good quality cast iron. Those are the things we enjoy now, but it won't surprise me if newer stoves have all of these features plus more I haven't even though of.

Hopefully I can tap into the accumulated wisdom of the groupl for some recommendations & comments.
Thanks, scotty

Welcome Scotty,

The Resolute has been a good stove for a lot of my customers. In most cases, the best results have been from those who do not burn it constantly at the higher end of the BTU/hr scale and have little if any need to repair and replace the inner castings. You didn't mention if you have had maintenance done regularly on your Resolute or not. If you are used to little or no maintenance with your Resolute you may have to adjust your expectations. One thing that has resulted from the EPA rules has been higher internal combustion temperatures. Also, you mentioned "totally air tight" and todays stoves are not as easily damped down as earlier models. There is usually more air going through the stove than in the past models which could almost be completely closed off.

For top loading quality cast iron the current VC models are certainly in the running. But they will typically need more regualr maintenance than your old Resolute. Also, not all of them use the themostatically controlled air control. The most direct replacement for your Resolute would be the Resolute Acclaim (the next generation of your current model). Next would be the Encore Catalytic. After that the Encore Non-Cat. Each of these stoves has there strong points and weak points. Of the three, the Encore Catalytic has all the features you asked for but it has a history of higher costs per year for routine maintenance and repair.

If you can compromise on the top loading and thermostatic control you may want to also look at Jotul, Morso, Quadrafire and Regency/Hampton, and the new Lopi Leyden (top loader). There are lots of good stoves these days. A good protion of your decision should also be weighted toward the support network, if needed. A good stove from a poor dealer or manufacturer network is not as good as a good stove from a good dealer and manufacturer network.

What were some of the dozen stoves that did not make the grade? What was most important in deciding that the Resolute was the one for you?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Im a hearthstone fan.
You will find that most of the major brands out there are comparable in quality and performance. Look for a good dealer and base your decision on material of the stove. Figure out if you want steel, cast iron, or soapstone. They all have unique properties. Also, dont forget to derate what ever you buy. For average construction ( 8 foot celings, 2x6 walls, good windows) take 70% of the manufcatures rating for square footage. If you have a older house with high celings and 2x4 walls take 50% of the manucatures rating. A example would be the 80,000 btu Hearthstone Mansfield is stated to heat 3000 square feet. If you have a old cabin it would take care of about 1500 square feet.

 

[Gooserider]

If you liked your old VC, I'd say that you could do alot worse than to consider getting one of their newer models. VC appears to have gotten their act back together again after the troubled period they went through a few years back, and be making nice stoves that probably would be a drop in replacement for what you're currently burning, top load and all.

Look through some of the old threads for some of the stuff where Elk and I went up to VC for a plant tour a couple of months ago.

Gooserider

 

[wg_bent]

On that note, in the face of all the PE fans here, might I say that I am 100% completely satisfied with my Jotul, it has performed well beyond what I had expected of it, is built extremely well, has beauty and grace that complements my home, and if it ever came down to it I could drop it on a VC and crush it like a grape! :coolgrin:

-- Mike

I knew it would happen here someday. "My stove can beat up your stove!"

Next the pellet guys will chime in with "My stove is smarter than your stove"

 

[elkimmeg]

Everbody here is waiting for me to expound on the virtues of Vermont Castings new everburn and cat stoves . But let's take a step back in history.
In anticipation of EPA mandates VC got a head start the State of Oregon led the way they adopted simmilar requirements actually the EPA later adopted theirs.
In the Mid 80's if you stove tag proclaims tested to Oregon specs then y essentially you have an EPA approved stove in terms of effeciency and grams of emmitances.
Not much has changed in the Resolute Acclaim's design except to remove metal plates that warped with refactory packages It was 73% effecient at the start and is still listed 73%
the most important detail one has to be aware of is to keep those bottom secondary inlets clear and clean to promote secondary combustion It requires a pipe cleaner and shop vac out every so often..

If it is currently in good condition and handling the job then why fool around with sucess. It also can be rebuilt or even patrically rebuilt I rebuilt mine last Aug. I posted picture here and detailed the rebuild The new owner another forum member is quite pleased with my rebuild. Really not that hard and it will act like a new stove
Now is set on purchasing new ,Today's Resolute Acclaim is about the same as wht you have. If you want to burn cleaner then the Encores cat and non cat will take you to that next level topping out at 82% effeciency and about 18% more heat longer logs and larger fire box, add the thermatically controlled air it it, will burn longer than the Resolute Acclaim

Firebox size increases from 1.75cu ft to about 2.2cu ft

Smokeless top loading can be found in other stoves.

Harman Oakwood 420000 BTUs about the same as what you are accustom to also reversible flue collar for top or rear vent and thermatically controled secondary air

Quada-fire Island Royal another good stove top loading

Lopi Leyden another quality top loader

We have hearth members, that are dealers of thes other top loaders, that can explain their features better than I can

 

[scotty]

Thanks for all of the information. This sure is a friendly forum

As to why we would go looking at a new stove, it is because I'm building a new house and the codes require it. Otherwise I would be quite happygetting another vintage VC just like the one we use.

Like a lot of folks who live rurally, wood stoves are a hobby and a constant source of conversation between neighbors.

In our lifetime we've seen the introduction of the "air tight" stove - what an advance that was!!
The first one that I saw with that feature was the Jotul, and we promptly bought one....Had to take out a loan to buy it!!
BTW, I define "airtight" now just as it was defined 45 years ago by Jotul. A stove is "airtight" when shutting off the air intake will cause the fire to go out....Not that you would do that as it would cause dieseling and other problems - but that was the definition at the time.

The other thing that amazed us was the first time we saw a thermostatic air control. That was on an Ashley "Heat-o-Lator" built post WWII. AN ugly stove with crutde cast iron insides and a sheetmetal covering with lots of ventilation slots.... but it sure did work well. In retrospect, it must have been an airtight type as well. Didn't see the thermostatic control again until the VC came out, but I imagine it is common enough now. There were some kits available for awhile to adapt thermostatic air to other stoves. I remember one specifically for our Jotul but I never bought one as that particular Jotul didn't work well for other reasons - it now lives in our barn...

Can someone bring me up to date on the status of the thermostatic air controls today? I'm way out of date.....it does happen with age....
Thanks! Scotty

 

[scotty]

Seaken (Sean Kennedy) many thanks for your very informative email. Well, the old Resolute hasn't been entirely maintenance free either. It needed a new internal bellcrank that works the damper door - the old one burned through. That was a half hour repair, not dangerous, and pretty obvious what it was. About every decade it needs new gaskets for the door. Gasket damage happens mostly because of hitting them while loading with pieces of wood that are a little too big, though I see that the gasket itself slowly succumbs to the heat. Oh....and I still need to to make one modification to the lower door hinges to give them more clearance. They tend to build up hardened ash and then bind upon closing. Minor stuff, with the door hinge modification being the most important and the hardest to figure out.

I know that all the newer stoves burn hotter, and have mixed feelings about that. In the past I've preferred to burn the stove less hot - the tradeoff being the necessity for more frequent cleaning.

I'm not really looking for a replacement for this stove as it will stay with the cabin. The new stove is destined for our new house on the other end of the property.... and will have to be larger than the old Resolute., but we do want to have some of the same features we've enjoyed with the old VC.

" GooseRider" - what an odd name? - I just discovered the information about your tour of the VC plant. Hopefully what you say about a return to quality is happening for them. Typically in manufacturing it takes a long time for quality to change....."slow to build but quick to lose"....But if I am to order a VC stove, how do I tell the newer from the older? Are certain models more recent? Right now I'd have to say that I lean toward the non-cat Encore and Defiant models, but that only the thermostatic feature is keeping me from looking at many other stoves.

Being able to turn a stove down to near nothing while I go to work and not worrying about some odd wind condition causing over-firing is a huge concern for us.
Scotty

 

[precaud]

" GooseRider" - what an odd name?

"Goose" is a nickname for a particularly fine brand of Italian motorcycle, Moto Guzzi. Despite having nearly lost my life on one of them, I still have quite an affection for them...

 

[begreen]

Can someone bring me up to date on the status of the thermostatic air controls today? I'm way out of date.....it does happen with age....
Thanks! Scotty

Hi Scotty, welcome to Hearth.com.

Our first new stove was the original Resolute and it's still one of my favorites. The thermostatic damper is a great feature. BTW, did you know if you place a tiny magnet on the edge of the damper it will close tightly instead of tap, tapping when it's just about to close?

Unfortunately, not many stoves have adopted thermostatic controls to date. VC still has it on some models. Some folks on the forum here love the soapstone stoves like the Hearthstones and Woodstocks because of their even heating. This design reduces the need for thermostatic control as the stone has a tempering effect of absorbing heat during the burn and then radiating it back into the room slowly.

 

[elkimmeg]

The new VC non cat stoves are no longer assembled using refactory cement . All joints are now gaskets bolted together. These gaskets should last a long time and not need attention ,unlike gaskets to moving parts. Also Vc has introduces using stainless steel bolts ,should a part need replacement ,stainless steel is stronger and will not rust in place. Another enhancement is using 3000 degree Never seize .when installing the bolts to further make any future repair that much easier. The secondary combustion chamber is also all new ,with stronger material and able to withstand constant 1700 degree heat and has been tested up to 2500 degrees,

Thermatic secondary air has a probe that senses the temperature of what is going on in the secondary burn chamber. It is connected to a spring like device ,similar to your stove top thermometer, where it open and closes controlling the secondary air. This evens out longer productive burns. This is the same in the Cat combustor and non cat combustor Intrepid II, Encore, and Defiant. After using a modem Resolute Acclaim the past 3 years, then upgrading to the Cat Encore, it took the heating task to another level. Not just the fire box size but a combination of a well engineered secondary cat combustion with the thermoatically controlled secondary air, 8 hours of even 500 griddle top heat is a reality, possibly more. Some members here using the VC dutchwest stoves reach 12 hours. Its been too warm for me to really completely fill the fire box to time the ultimate level, but 8 great hours of production is all I need

here is a link to our recent plant tour video, you can see the stoves made

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/5224/

The day after the tour and our impressions
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/5145/

the explanation of the Ever Burn Technology
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/5172/

the explanation of the Ever Burn Technology

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Where abouts do you live?

If you decide to go with VC i would highly recommed

EARTH WOOD & FIRE
3313 35TH AVE.
EVANS, CO 80620
Phone: 970-506-9663

or
SNOOZEASE HOME & HEARTH OUTFITTERS
999 EAST EVANS AVE.
DENVER, CO 80210
Phone: 303-722-6698

Not that any of the dealers are bad, i just KNOW these folks and there excellent. I cant speak for any of the others, i have never delt with them.

 

[seaken]

Keep in mind that both the Encore and Defiant Non-cat do not use the thermostatically controlled air supply. I think the Encore Catalytic is a good stove and meets all of your requirements. But some folks object to the maintenance of the catalytic models.

 

[scotty]

""Keep in mind that both the Encore and Defiant Non-cat do not use the thermostatically controlled air supply. ""

Now I'm confused. My dealertold me the opposite. He said the new non-cats control the air similar to how the older pre EPA models did. He also told me that on the catalytic type that the thermostat did not control the air supply - it only controlled smoke flow through the catalytic element . Getting accurate info seems oddly difficult and difficult to decipher. What I would like to know is how each model operates......with or without the advertising spin. Then I can make an informed decision. Am I asking too much?
thanks, scotty

 

[elkimmeg]

Scoty I called Peter MacLeary Engineering manager and R&D to get a straight answer directly from VC, When he calls me back I will post the context of his conversation

 

[elkimmeg]

According to the manager of engineering Mike MacLeary the everburn stoves are thematically controlled. Howerver not as readily visible as on the Cat models.

The new VC everburn stoves were tested to include a rear heat shield, which blocks the view of the secondary mechanism.

Turns out the dealer you spoke to had the probe right in the new everburn stoves but confused the probe function in the cat stoves To an extent adding air underneath does control some smoke flow but also enhanses the secondary burning supplying additional oxygen to the combustion mix

 

[Gooserider]

" GooseRider" - what an odd name? - I just discovered the information about your tour of the VC plant. Hopefully what you say about a return to quality is happening for them. Typically in manufacturing it takes a long time for quality to change....."slow to build but quick to lose"....But if I am to order a VC stove, how do I tell the newer from the older? Are certain models more recent? Right now I'd have to say that I lean toward the non-cat Encore and Defiant models, but that only the thermostatic feature is keeping me from looking at many other stoves.

Being able to turn a stove down to near nothing while I go to work and not worrying about some odd wind condition causing over-firing is a huge concern for us.
Scotty

As someone else mentioned, my handle comes from the fact that I ride a Moto Guzzi motorcycle. My avatar is a home-brew combo of the Guzzi and the California II model logos.

Another bunch of stoves that I know use thermostatic control are at least some of the Pacific Energy stoves, any of the models that use the "EBT" technology, such as the Summits, etc. PE has a good reputation, and at least here on the forums, high loyalty. The downside for you is that they are plate steel rather than cast iron, and there are some allegations that they are responsible for global warming - particularly the whorehouse red models... :lol:

I wouldn't worry overmuch about weather changes causing overfiring when you aren't home, it shouldn't be an issue if you turn the stove down to a reasonably low level before leaving. (If you left with it right on the edge then it might be a different story)

Gooserider

 

[seaken]

""Keep in mind that both the Encore and Defiant Non-cat do not use the thermostatically controlled air supply. ""

Now I'm confused. My dealertold me the opposite. He said the new non-cats control the air similar to how the older pre EPA models did. He also told me that on the catalytic type that the thermostat did not control the air supply - it only controlled smoke flow through the catalytic element . Getting accurate info seems oddly difficult and difficult to decipher. What I would like to know is how each model operates......with or without the advertising spin. Then I can make an informed decision. Am I asking too much?
thanks, scotty

Sorry, I don't want to contribute to confusion. I think the confusion comes from my understanding that you wanted a thermastatically controlled PRIMARY air control.

Both currently available designs, the Catalytic and the Non-Cat have a secondary burn chamber and the air supply to that secondary burn is not controlled directly by the user. In my opinion, you are better off if you do not control the air supply to the secondary burn (but some here do not share that opinion). However, the PRIMARY air supply is user controlled and, like your old Resolute, is the control that allows you to turn the stove down and acts like an "air tight". If you want to continue to use a thermastatically controlled PRIMARY air supply your choices are limited to the Catalytic models. The Non-cat models use a direct drive primary control, similar to how a dial damper works.

However, none of these stoves can be starved of air as dramatically as your Resolute or other older "air tight" stoves. This is one area that you will have to adjust to as you upgrade to the new technology.