Need advice on how to update woodburning fireplace

[fubarize]

I have a wood burning fireplace in my 1955 rambler style house. I would like to use it next winter to heat the basement or possibly the entire house. My basement is partially finished but lacks the hvac necessary to keep warm(well some heat vents but no returns).

I have not used my fireplace since buying the house 2 years ago. The clay flue isn't in the greatest shape from a visual inspection, there is creosote built up and the firebox is not enclosed(see picture).



I plan to add one of those round stainless steal flue liners and need some advice for the firebox.

I'm assuming i need some sort of insert to connect to the new flue liner and enclose the fire, I would also like blowers to to circulate heat. Looking around the web, most inserts I've seen go into an existing box, but my fireplace doesn't have sides!

1. Do I brick up the sides and put in an insert?
2. Can I get an insert that is supposed to go into this type of fireplace
3. If I put an insert in, do I remove the damper?
4. I don't want to spend a ton of money, but would like it to look nice and be useful.

Any advice, ideas, suggestions, opinions are welcome. I'm very handy and do a lot of DIY stuff, but I'm not even sure where to get started on this project.

extra info: dimensions of the fireplace opening is 57.5" wide, 15.5" deep, 22.5" tall

THANKS!

 

[begreen]

An insert doesn't have to have a surround, though you could brick in the ends and install a surround for a more finished look. The shallow depth is an issue. Most likely several inches of stove will extend out onto the hearth beyond this point. You would need to put a hearth extension in to comply with the 16" hearth requirement. Due to the height and shallow depth you may not be fitting a very large insert. It should be enough to heat the basement, but maybe not the whole house. Or could the upper metal trim be removed to get a bit more height?

Are the basement walls fully insulated?

Some inserts that would work are the Country Striker C160, Buck 21, (Buck 74 might fit if the upper trim can be removed or cut back), Englander 13-NCi

 

[fubarize]

Thanks for the reply.

The 22.5" measurement was from brick to brick, I measured with the assumption that the metal trim would be removed. I could probably get another 1 inch of depth by taking out the brownish backer bricks. I could always consider modifying or rebuilding the existing opening maybe?

It just seems like an insert would look really weird with the 3 open faces and with the large width of the opening. Is it possible to take out the (I'm not sure of terminology) brick above the firebox and rebuild a new enclosure? Would this cause structure problems connecting to the chimney?

The basement walls are not insulated, mostly just wood paneling over concrete block foundation. I plan to put up studded walls with insulation eventually.

 

[begreen]

It's possible to brick up the sides and a portion of the front edges to accommodate the insert's surround. I would bring in a mason if the desire is to remove anything above the lintel.

 

[Grisu]

How about removing two layers or so of bricks from the fireplace bottom; or maybe even all? I assume there is just slab underneath? Doing that and the metal trim you could have enough room to put a large freestanding stove in there that potentially could heat the entire house. The question then is of course how well the heat can rise to the upper floors. Do you have a floorplan?

 

[fubarize]

Good idea removing a few layers of brick on the bottom for more space! I'm not as worried with heating the whole house, mainly just the basement living area(which is where the fireplace is). I have a natural gas furnace with forced air, behind the wall the fireplace is on. (There actually used to be a wood stove on the other side where the furnace is now, my chimney actually has two flue chambers)

I will eventually remodel the entire basement and put up insulated walls and run hvac, the fireplace would be more of a temporary source of heat in the basement for a couple winters. The fireplace would also be used in case of electrical outages during the winter. I would just like it to look nice and be functional to add value to the house and also be cozy.

 

[bholler]

Well I am sure it will not be as simple ass removing a couple layers of brick. I am sure that under that brick is a mixture of concrete broken brick and any other fill they had around. You could take it down for sure but it will not be a quick easy job. You also might have issues with the support post pictured depending on how deep it goes into that hearth. But yeah if you could take that out it would be really easy to get just about whatever stove you want in there

 

[fubarize]

Good point bholler. The support posts are a concern, I'm thinking if i brick up the sides I will no longer need the support posts. The house was built in 1955 if that makes any difference, seems they had a lot better construction methods back then,so it might be solid layers of brick instead of "fill".

Also the hearth extends to the left of the picture about 8 feet, I'm thinking they used that for stacking wood. I plan on removing the hearth to the left of the fireplace, if i start there it will also give me a better idea if there is "fill" or not. Also I can always cut the support posts and grind it flush if it extends to the foundation.

 

[bholler]

Well better construction methods in the 50s is very debatable. I see some absolutely horribly built 50s fireplaces. And I have never seen a mason build a raised heart like that out of layers of brick and out of the 20 or so hearths I have rebuilt I have never seen one it is common practice to lay up the outside and then fill it with concrete. And when they fill with concrete they usually they in all the brick and block scraps they had laying around there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing it this way and it is stronger, more stable and cheaper than building the whole thing out of brick.

 

[bholler]

Also I would be concerned that the post might not go all the way down and when you start demoing the hearth there would be no support left for all that brick overhead. I think that removing the hearth is probably a good idea and I am sure it can be done. I just wanted to point out that it will probably not be that easy of a job.

 

[begreen]

Hard to say from the angle of the shot but it looks like you could take out a 36" center section and never come near the posts.

 

[Grisu]

To clarify: My suggestion to reduce the height of the fireplace was not really meant as a DIY project. I would not do that without at least consulting a professional mason. In addition, if a freestanding stove is supposed to be put there, I would not close up the sides with brick. I'd rather leave that open and would only put some (good-looking) columns in the corners to support the chimney. That way the heat will travel much easier. If the sides are bricked up, an insert would be much more logical.

All that may not come cheap, though. A budget option would be to place a freestanding stove on the hearth next to the fireplace and run the flue into the chimney (if the left flue of the chimney is not used by the furnace). If money is tight right now that could possibly be done until a mason can be paid to do the lowering of the fireplace. Then the stove could simply be moved under the chimney.

 

[bholler]

I like the idea of the stove next to the fireplace Grisu.

 

[fubarize]

Thanks for all the ideas/suggestions.

bholler - good to know information, I will most definatly consult an expert if I decide I want the bricks/opening modified.
begreen - Yes the opening between the posts is 39" so that is a good idea.
Grisu - I also like your idea of a stove next to the fireplace to provide the needed heat(the furnace does not use the 2nd flue), then maybe eventually have a mason come in and redo the firebox area.


Thanks for all the help guys! This project is on the back burner right now, mainly just doing my research to decide what would work best when the time comes.

I'll try to remember to post back here once I make a decision(could be 6 months or more from now).

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for all the help guys! This project is on the back burner right now, mainly just doing my research to decide what would work best when the time comes.

I'll try to remember to post back here once I make a decision(could be 6 months or more from now).

I like the way you are approcaching it. Once you know how you want to go forward, we can help with the stove selection. Btw. If you really want to have a stove/insert by next winter or maybe the year after, get your wood lined up. You need to have it split and stacked in your yard for at least a year to get it dry enough (less than 20% internal moisture content).