Need advice on insert and fireplace dimensions

[wcbarr]

Hello all,

I've been doing a lot of reading on here for a while and wow what a lot of knowledge. I was hoping for some advice. We're redoing an old cabin and tore out a rusty heatilator that had basically fell apart and the brick facing as you can see in the attached picture. I have a mason coming hopefully sometime in the next couple of weeks for a quote. I want to have a pretty good idea of what insert I'm going to put in before he comes.

I'm sold on a Blaze King unless someone convinces me otherwise. We're leaning towards a flush mount insert vs. the Princess or a free standing stove because the living room isn't very big. The cabin itself is about 600 sf on the main level, 300 sf loft and an unfinished basement. The chimney is on an exterior wall and one day we have "considered" adding a bed and bathroom on that end.

My dilemna is, the opening you see in the pic is 48" wide, 54 1/2" high and 25" deep. The hearth that was removed is 28" deep. From what I've seen, the widest surround for the Ashford is 44 1/4 & 38 7/8 on the Sirocco. I'm assuming (hoping) I'll be okay on the height once the mason finishes. Any suggestions on the width, other options or what I may not be thinking of?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

A freestanding stove would work perfectly in that location, but if an insert is what is desired, have the mason lower the lintel and add a course of brick to the sides.

 

[wcbarr]

Thanks for the reply. We haven't completely ruled out a freestanding. Not sure if you can tell from the picture, broken bricks are what was used on the interior sides. What would you do there if you went with a freestanding?

 

[begreen]

That is a big hole. There are many freestanding stoves that will fit in there including the BK Ashford. I would stick with stoves that have a blower option.

 

[wcbarr]

So going with a freestanding, would you try to have the mason decrease the size of the fire box (I'm assuming with a large hole more heat is escaping) or just have the mason cover the sides and rear with fire bricks for aesthetic reasons?

 

[ColdNorCal]

I would leave the fireplace opened up. Its personal tastes as some of us like the look of a wood stove in an alcove.

https://www.google.com/search?q=woo..._aziAhXWrZ4KHf7oD_QQ_AUIDigB&biw=1536&bih=767


Since its exterior chimney, insulate it and block off plate. Definitely get a unit with a fan as convection heat works best in this type of install. Some have made their own convection deck on top of the stove to direct heat into the room.

The facade could be covered in rock, tile, marble...

Take your time and research. Their is a lot to learn. You are fortunate and have lots of options with that fireplace. Many of us installed a free standing stove and had limitations do to fireplace size.

 

[begreen]

So going with a freestanding, would you try to have the mason decrease the size of the fire box (I'm assuming with a large hole more heat is escaping) or just have the mason cover the sides and rear with fire bricks for aesthetic reasons?

If freestanding then the changes would be for cosmetics. A layer of non-combustible insulation like Roxul or Micore brand board will help keep more heat in the room as will the recommended insulated block-off plate around lintel level.

 

[wcbarr]

Thanks for the replies, you both have mentioned adding insulation. I've read the posts on here about adding Roxul and a block-off plate. Will definitely do that. Where else are you suggesting I add insulation?

 

[jetsam]

The liner should definitely be insulated for performance reasons.

It won't hurt to insulate above the block-off plate to slow down heat transfer through the plate.

If you go with an insert and you have an exterior chimney, insulate the whole fireplace too (insert dimensions permitting)- you can lose a lot of heat through the masonry.

 

[ColdNorCal]

Insulate all fireplace exterior walls. Many also insulate at the top of chimney, below the crown cap. And even stuff insulation into the chimney cavity. Roxul/mineral wool is cheap and usually their is a lot left over after insulating the block off plate and fireplace exterior walls.

 

[wcbarr]

ColdNorCal, I guess that's where I'm hung up or don't understand. At this point, how can I insulate the exterior wall (rear of fire box), without a big decrease in the depth of the fire box?

If I go with a free standing that is. I understand what to do for an insert.

 

[ColdNorCal]

Maybe insulate only a couple inches instead of 4. Or maybe the stove sits out on the hearth some like mine does. One good thing about it sitting out on the hearth is you get radiant heat from the sides and top of stove. It also depends on the stove and clearance requirements. All this takes time and research. It took me months when I did it last year.

 

[begreen]

ColdNorCal, I guess that's where I'm hung up or don't understand. At this point, how can I insulate the exterior wall (rear of fire box), without a big decrease in the depth of the fire box?

If I go with a free standing that is. I understand what to do for an insert.

1.5" will do. A sheet of 1" micore or roxul board is sufficient insulation to create a thermal barrier. It can be covered with a sheet of 1/2" cement board like Durock for a cleaner look, then painted black. Note that this is optional. The stove's rear heat shield will stop some radiant losses in back of the stove.

A freestanding stove should be placed as far forward into the room as is practical for alignment of the flue outlet.

 

[wcbarr]

Thanks again everyone for the feedback, lots to think about. I jump back & forth daily on choosing between an insert or freestanding. In my particular case, is it a fair statement that a freestanding is going to heat the cabin better but the look may not be as appealing if I want to insulate the exterior wall? And with an insert, I can insulate the fireplace much better because it will be covered up, but it won't push the heat to the room like a free standing? I know there are more technical words I should be using to phrase that but I'm a simple man!

 

[begreen]

Done right there will be no visual cue that the insulation is there. There are some handsome examples of freestanding stoves in fireplaces in older postings here. In the case of the Ashford, the firebox on the freestander is a bit larger, so burn time may be a bit longer. Both solutions are viable and can be aesthetically pleasing. Ultimately it may come down to the final look you want to achieve.

 

[begreen]

Here are a few pics of stoves in fireplaces. Maybe Ashful can post a pic of his Ashford in a large fireplace too.

 

[wcbarr]

Thanks, I've looked at a lot of pics but had not seen many with the inside walls being something other than masonry. A couple of those pics show how that would look. The more I read, I feel like I need to insulate not only the rear but both sides. With that big of an opening I wasn't sure how good it would look with the black walls. Looking at these pics, I think if I take your original advice & drop the lintel and maybe add a course of bricks to the side, with a decent sized stove it should look really nice.

 

[begreen]

If a brick look is desired the mason could put up the roxul board and then do a brick veneer over it. Just pay attention to the stove depth - including the blower and the stove's flue outlet location so that it aligns reasonably well with the damper opening. (They make 15 & 30º stainless liner adapters to come off the stove if needed.)

 

[jetsam]

With a freestander, another option is to plug/cap the chimney and vent straight up through the roof.

You might at first wonder why you'd do that with a perfectly good chimney a few feet away, but it saves you an elbow for better draft, and really improves the range of stoves you can choose from (you're no longer shopping for a short or rear-venting unit).

Your house layout dictates whether or not it's practical.

 

[begreen]

Should be able to go straight up the chimney and may not need any elbows. Even if it needs a 15º elbow, that is going to have a negligible effect on draft.

 

[BKVP]

All great input from the members. Remember, the control mechanisms (bypass, thermostat and rheostat) are all on the right hand side. Access is important consideration.

Also, if you put a freestanding unit in the fireplace, for performance reasons, you need clearances to the rear of the stove. Depending upon what materials are used, the rear wall could be too close and direct heat back at the thermostat, making it perform erratically. I would maintain at least 6".

Inserts all have the controls in front as well as the thermostat.

Just items to consider.

From Eureka CA.....

Lancaster PA in 2 weeks!

 

[wcbarr]

Due to limited space, capping the chimney and using another area in the room I don't think would be feasible, plus the room is on the non-loft side so it's about 18-20 ft to the ceiling in that area. I was thinking I could get by without an elbow but if I add 1.5" of insulation and need 6" clearance that may change. Need to do some more figuring! Thanks all for the continued feedback.