Help choosing insert/stove for fireplace

[ThereAreGoats]

Hi all,

I'm renovating a cabin in the Catskills and need some advice picking a new stove or insert for the existing fireplace. My main questions are:

1. Stove or insert?
2. Steel or cast iron?

Some important stuff up front:

• Total area of cabin: 950 sq ft
• Placement of stove/insert: In hearth on far wall of rectangular cabin; not an open floorplan
• Fireplace dimensions: 38.5w X 29.25H; distance to middle of flue from hearth: 16"; Distance to back top: 19"; Distance to back bottom: 26.25'
• Primary Heat: Stove during the day, mini splits at night for when stove cools
• Insulation: Good
• Winter temperatures: Lows in teens/20s, highs in 30s
• Frequent power outages, and I hate blowers
• High efficiency preferred, but maybe no cat due to the added complications they present guests, who might not use them properly

I currently have a Green Mountain 40 in a central location that heats the existing cabin (with poor insulation) very well. After renovation, the cabin will have much better insulation. But the stove/insert will need to move into fireplace, on far wall of cabin, and the hallway separating that room from rest of cabin will narrow, to 4'x11'. I do have a mini split mounted right by the hallway that could help circulate air down the hall to other parts of hte cabin. But I still worry about the ability of a stove/insert to heat the entire cabin as well under these conditions.

It would be tough to use my Green Mountain 40 due to flue placement; ideally the stove would stick out of hearth some and the GM40 wouldn't be able to do this. Jotul stoves won't work due to needing to access the top, which means they can't really go in the hearth.

In my area, that leaves the Morsø 5660 insert, Morsø 7110 stove, Vermont Castings Encore or Dauntless stove, and Lopi Answer insert/stove.

I've resisted inserts because I hate the idea of having to use a blower and my power goes out frequently. But I'm coming around to the idea, particularly if folks think they'd still heat my situation adequately, and especially if they could do so without the blower. The Morsø inserts seem to hardly stick out, while the Lopi inserts do, which would help with heating.

Another thing I have questions about is cast iron vs. steel. I love the way cast iron retains heat and keeps the place warm well after coals go out. Will I miss this with steel?

So in short: given the stove placement and hallways in this situation, what do folks thing would be my best bet? Would any stove sticking out a bit from the hearth heat better than an insert, or would an insert do just fine in my situation?

Many thanks in advance.

Robert

 

[kborndale]

You mention guests, do you plan on renting this place out?

 

[ThereAreGoats]

You mention guests, do you plan on renting this place out?

Not to strangers. Only to trusted friends.

 

[EbS-P]

What are the fireplace opening dimensions?

 

[ThereAreGoats]

What are the fireplace opening dimensions?

Fireplace dimensions: 38.5w X 29.25H; distance to middle of flue from hearth: 16"

 

[begreen]

Of those mentioned, the Lopi Answer would be my choice, but I am wondering if there are other options.

Fireplace dimensions: 38.5w X 29.25H; distance to middle of flue from hearth: 16"

What are the full dimensions including width and height at the rear of the fireplace and the depth of the fireplace bottom and top?

Moving the heat down the hallway will be a challenge. It's going to take something like a well-placed box fan blowing colder air from the main space into the fireplace room. The mini-split is not well designed for this purpose.

 

[ThereAreGoats]

Of those mentioned, the Lopi Answer would be my choice, but I am wondering if there are other options.

What are the full dimensions including width and height at the rear of the fireplace and the depth of the fireplace bottom and top?

Moving the heat down the hallway will be a challenge. It's going to take something like a well-placed box fan blowing colder air from the main space into the fireplace room. The mini-split is not well designed for this purpose.

Ahh sorry. Roughly...

Opening: 38.5w X 29.25H
Distance to middle of flue from hearth: 16"
Distance to back top: 19"
Distance to back bottom: 26.25'

 

[begreen]

Ahh sorry. Roughly...

Opening: 38.5w X 29.25H
Distance to middle of flue from hearth: 16"
Distance to back top: 19"
Distance to back bottom: 26.25'

To verify:
a = 29.25, b= 19", c = 38.5", d= ??, e= 26.5"
Is that correct? What is dimension "d"?

 

[ThereAreGoats]

To verify:
a = 29.25, b= 19", c = 38.5", d= ??, e= 26.5"
Is that correct? What is dimension "d"?

View attachment 319542

I believe "d" is the same as "c," although I'm not there to measure right now. Also, the 19" number I gave was for the top of the hearth opening to the back. It's the top version of "e." I don't have a measurement for "b" but my guess is that it is close to "a"

 

[begreen]

It's common for a fireplace firebox to taper in the rear both vertically and horizontally. They rarely are square. The top depth of 19" indicates the rear side slopes in at the top, but it's important to know at what height the taper starts if the fit is tight. So far it looks like the Answer would be an easy fit but if the cabin is unheated, then a larger insert is desirable.

 

[ThereAreGoats]

I enjoy using the stove as the primary heat, although, as I mentioned, I've been using the mini-splits at night since the burn times on the Green Mountain 40 don't extend through that time. So the cabin is unheated only to the extent that I enjoy using only the stove for heat (and often have to during extended power outages). The next Lopi up from the Answer is the Medium Flush Wood, which takes 24" splits and covers up to 2000 sf. I worry it would absolutely roast me—at least in the fireplace room—if I burned it even half full (I use 14" splits in my Green Mountain 40 and typically burn it only half full to keep the stove from overheating, which it can do even fully stopped down from the time of reload). Regarding the mini-split next to the hallway, the fan can be angled to point in that direction. But yes, probably inadequate to do much.

Would the Lopi Answer installed as a stove, not an insert, be a compromise? And does the Morsø seem to not fit?

 

[ThereAreGoats]

It's common for a fireplace firebox to taper in the rear both vertically and horizontally. They rarely are square. The top depth of 19" indicates the rear side slopes in at the top, but it's important to know at what height the taper starts if the fit is tight. So far it looks like the Answer would be an easy fit but if the cabin is unheated, then a larger insert is desirable.

See above. I'd also love to get your thoughts on the steel vs. cast iron issue.

 

[EbS-P]

Can you get a blaze king insert to fit. That would probably be my choice. Most cast iron stoves are steel stoves with a cast jacket for looks. Function is cast vs steel is not as important as stove design. Best designed and made stoves today are steel.

 

[BriHeat]

I'm looking into a Kuma alpine LE for an insert right now. seems like it may fit yours as well.
1.8 cu ft. firebox

 

[EbS-P]

I'm looking into a Kuma alpine LE for an insert right now. seems like it may fit yours as well.
1.8 cu ft. firebox

They are good. If you can get the larger on to fit i would consider it. I have a 1.7 cu ft stove and the burn time is realistically 6 hours.

 

[ThereAreGoats]

Can you get a blaze king insert to fit. That would probably be my choice. Most cast iron stoves are steel stoves with a cast jacket for looks. Function is cast vs steel is not as important as stove design. Best designed and made stoves today are steel.

@EbS-P Why is that, exactly? Turns out there actually is a Blaze King dealer in the area. Looks like my choices would be the Sirocco and Ashford, both of which I like. They certainly seem to be more efficient than the Morso and Lopi.

One thing I worry about with these big fireboxes is being able to use the stove efficiently without overheating. I can currently heat the place with just a few 14" splits in my Hearthstone Green Mountain. These insert fireboxes are far bigger, and I'd want to continue using my 14" splits in them, if only to get rid of them. Is there a minimum amount of wood in these that I should be burning? It seems like inserts need to be hotter to make up for the lack of radiant heat of a stove. But I still worry about about this

 

[EbS-P]

@EbS-P Why is that, exactly? Turns out there actually is a Blaze King dealer in the area. Looks like my choices would be the Sirocco and Ashford, both of which I like. They certainly seem to be more efficient than the Morso and Lopi.

One thing I worry about with these big fireboxes is being able to use the stove efficiently without overheating. I can currently heat the place with just a few 14" splits in my Hearthstone Green Mountain. These insert fireboxes are far bigger, and I'd want to continue using my 14" splits in them, if only to get rid of them. Is there a minimum amount of wood in these that I should be burning? It seems like inserts need to be hotter to make up for the lack of radiant heat of a stove. But I still worry about about this

Blaze king is the only stove that has thermostat that controls the air intake. I trust the low output numbers listed in their materials. If you have the right draft it is possible to get twenty hours on a single load. Now there won’t be any visible flames but the heat output will be very low and consistent

 

[Solarguy3500]

If you're open to the look of an insert without the faceplate installed it could open up more possibilities for you. It also solves your concern of trapping the heat inside the fireplace. You can insulate the back and sides of the fireplace with Roxul and install a blockoff plate above the stove to keep even more heat from escaping.

If you have metal fab skills and some extra time, you could even do like I did and make a trim kit out of metal panels that goes behind the insert and paint it with stove paint for a nice finished look. I have an Osburn 3500 insert with a 3 cu ft firebox, but if you don't need/want that big of a stove, Osburn and many other manufacturers make inserts of various sizes that could work. Here's the trim kit I made to go behind my insert:


Here's what it looks like installed:


You can still see the shiny stainless stove top adapter that connects it to the liner, but that doesn't bother me.

 

[ThereAreGoats]

Blaze king is the only stove that has thermostat that controls the air intake. I trust the low output numbers listed in their materials. If you have the right draft it is possible to get twenty hours on a single load. Now there won’t be any visible flames but the heat output will be very low and consistent

So it actually adjusts the air intake to maintain certain temperatures? I'm not sure I need that. And low temperatures without any visible flame seems to be a great recipe for creosote. Or am I missing something?

 

[EbS-P]

So it actually adjusts the air intake to maintain certain temperatures? I'm not sure I need that. And low temperatures without any visible flame seems to be a great recipe for creosote. Or am I missing something?

Think adjustable air to maintain constant output. It has a cat that is designed to eat all the smoke so it burns clean. Any stoves can deposit creosote BKs are no exception but it’s a well designed system. Read up on them. They are some of the best stoves IMO.

 

[BKVP]

Gentlemen,

The mention of power outages would suggest to me to look at a hearth heater, such as the PI29 or the Kuma inserts. The PI29 sits 12 3/4" onto the hearth and also 12 3/4" to the inside. The idea of having the heater exchange properties of this style would be ideal if the power goes out (and fans won't work without a generator.

BKVP

 

[dafattkidd]

Hey,

What did you end up going with? Did you make a decision?

 

[ThereAreGoats]

I still haven't made up my mind. I started another thread about it all with a bit more information. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Help picking insert for a tricky cabin situation

Hello wood burning Jedi. I asked a version of this question earlier this year, but I have far more information and stove choices now so I wanted to ask it again, building on things @begreen, @EbS-P and others said. In short, I'm looking for a hearth insert to use in my 1,000 square foot...

www.hearth.com

 

[begreen]

Closing this thread. It's a pain in the butt to have to continually refer to multiple threads for the whole picture and it leads to a lot of redundant postings.