Need help! Flu pipe condensation again????? House stinks.

[CHeath]

Ok this is the 2nd time I have bad this. Bad my stove 2 weeks and I'm sure it's operator error but this time it's affecting the fam. I came down after work At 530 and my englander 25-3800 bad super hot coals so I reloaded it. I have been playing with the drafts trying to maximize the burn times so this time I turned them both all the way off and then just cracked the front wheel draft. At 745 I started Smelling a wet wood smell like after you put the camp fire out for the night. So I jumped up. It was all of a sudden. House was good and warm. I'd say 77. I came in the basement and it was stronger down here. I immediately saw the flue pipe leaking water. It was coming from the elbow but also bubbling around the pentagon shaped insert where the flue pipe goes into the stove. The window showed hot coals but the wood was charred black and not burning. I grabbed my IR temp gun and the flu temp was only 119 degrees. I had starved it I guess. I grabbed a shirt and wiped up the dark water. It's mostly water but its sticky. I immediately opened the drafts and it flamed up. All of the leaks stopped Immediately and what you see below Is how it is now. Keep in mind that my chimey even tho 30 years old has only been used for 2 weeks. I'm nervous because I don't know what this is. I don't want to sit down here with a garden hose at the ready but at the same time, I think the temps got to low causing condensation. The wood I loaded up was damp. I am reluctant to let you all know this because I do t want everyone to say " there's your problem you idiot " but I don't want to leave anything out. It all dried up and stopped within 30 seconds of me turning up the drafts. Wife and kids are complaining of the smell. Thanks for all the help.

 

[CHeath]

The more I think on it. Was the flue temps so low that the steam from the damp wood couldn't evaporate causing this ?

 

[Jon1270]

Condensation sounds right to me. We can skip the "you idiot" part, but yes, the wet wood and air-starved fire is probably your problem.

 

[alex johnson]

Ok this is the 2nd time I have bad this. Bad my stove 2 weeks and I'm sure it's operator error but this time it's affecting the fam. I came down after work At 530 and my englander 25-3800 bad super hot coals so I reloaded it. I have been playing with the drafts trying to maximize the burn times so this time I turned them both all the way off and then just cracked the front wheel draft. At 745 I started Smelling a wet wood smell like after you put the camp fire out for the night. So I jumped up. It was all of a sudden. House was good and warm. I'd say 77. I came in the basement and it was stronger down here. I immediately saw the flue pipe leaking water. It was coming from the elbow but also bubbling around the pentagon shaped insert where the flue pipe goes into the stove. The window showed hot coals but the wood was charred black and not burning. I grabbed my IR temp gun and the flu temp was only 119 degrees. I had starved it I guess. I grabbed a shirt and wiped up the dark water. It's mostly water but its sticky. I immediately opened the drafts and it flamed up. All of the leaks stopped Immediately and what you see below Is how it is now. Keep in mind that my chimey even tho 30 years old has only been used for 2 weeks. I'm nervous because I don't know what this is. I don't want to sit down here with a garden hose at the ready but at the same time, I think the temps got to low causing condensation. The wood I loaded up was damp. I am reluctant to let you all know this because I do t want everyone to say " there's your problem you idiot " but I don't want to leave anything out. It all dried up and stopped within 30 seconds of me turning up the drafts. Wife and kids are complaining of the smell. Thanks for all the help.

View attachment 95205

good morning heath, Your not a idiot by far. your just learning. When you load your stove up with fresh wood, its a must that you let it eat for at least ten minutes to start the drying process of the fresh wood and to aclimate it to the internal stove temps. What happened when you did that, you made a smoker. thus all the creosote. Your flue, still a 90 degree angle? that flat run that you have is not good for draft, 45 it. Feel free to call, more than willing to help. 816 383 4506

 

[alex johnson]

The more I think on it. Was the flue temps so low that the steam from the damp wood couldn't evaporate causing this ?

yes,

 

[alex johnson]

The more I think on it. Was the flue temps so low that the steam from the damp wood couldn't evaporate causing this ?

have patience with you and your stove, it will come and then you will love it. I installed a stove art my sisters house, and ran the flue at a 45 , easier path for the smoke. 90 degree makes it, just like a car. you have to slow down to get around it, but with a round about or such things you can, have more speed around the corner.

 

[Jon1270]

I installed a stove art my sisters house, and ran the flue at a 45 , easier path for the smoke. 90 degree makes it, just like a car. you have to slow down to get around it,

I don't think flue gas velocities are anywhere near those involved in car exhaust systems, so turbulence slow-downs at sharp turns probably aren't much of an issue. It's probably more the fact that the angle allows gravity to help where a level flue section does not -- so, still a good idea.

 

[basod]

Does the stove have a port anywhere to measure draft?

 

[CHeath]

no it does not. Could someone post a pic of a flue at 45 coming out of the TOP of a stove?

Thanks!

 

[ScotO]

Cheath, you aren't an idiot. We've all been there in regards to the learning curve, so you are going to hit a "speed bump" here and there. This is expected.

I would venture to say that less-than-ideal wood and early shut-down times are 90% of the problem here. How long is your wood seasoned? What species of wood are you burning? Also, what was the outside temps when all of this took place? Keep in mind that the milder it is outside (also relative humidity plays a factor), the harder it will be to start a draw up ANY chimney. Best thing to do is get a good hot flash fire (small splits and kindling) going in the stove to establish draw up the flue, then add the bigger stuff and let it get good and hot in that firebox. Don't close it down the while way too early.....guaranteed to have problems if you do. If you feel that its too mild to justify loading the firebox up the for the night it may pay you to build smaller, "quick" fires and let them go out rather than loading the stove to the gills and damping it all the way down. A smoldering fire in the shoulder seasons (or during mild spells) is guaranteed to cause the issues you are having with your stovepipe.

 

[Jags]

I don't think flue gas velocities are anywhere near those involved in car exhaust systems, so turbulence slow-downs at sharp turns probably aren't much of an issue. It's probably more the fact that the angle allows gravity to help where a level flue section does not -- so, still a good idea.

The industry considers every 90 deg angle a reduction of 3ft of stove pipe. So it is not an "insignificant" amount if by chance you are already running a questionable install. Just info, nothing more.

 

[Jon1270]

Good to know, Jags. Thanks.

 

[alex johnson]

I don't think flue gas velocities are anywhere near those involved in car exhaust systems, so turbulence slow-downs at sharp turns probably aren't much of an issue. It's probably more the fact that the angle allows gravity to help where a level flue section does not -- so, still a good idea.[/quote Thanks, yes. the difference between a car and a stove is that there is force behind car exhaust. there is no force behind, a stove... it's actually a vacuum that is pulling through the flue pipe. what i mean't was while youu are driving your caryou have to slow down for curves, specially for 90degree angles. Sweeping curves, are better than 90. Just like when you pull wire through a run of conduit. They have 3 foot sweeps, 2 foot sweeps.these gradual curves aid in pulling the wire through. 90degree curves in a stove pipe, with a horizontal run right after, is not the best. the longer the horizontal run after the 90 will cause lower draft. I am going to go to my sisters house were I installed a stove, in her basement. I guarantee that I will catch flack, more scared of my mother and her belt than any person out there. peace. The video will be called, Sweeping Stove Pipe, no 90.

 

[alex johnson]

no it does not. Could someone post a pic of a flue at 45 coming out of the TOP of a stove?

Thanks!

Chris, I will go take a video and post it. Give me a couple of hours, it's 11 central time, will be up by 4 pm cst.

 

[alex johnson]

no it does not. Could someone post a pic of a flue at 45 coming out of the TOP of a stove?

Thanks!

I am posting the video I made on youtube, The headline will be, ....45 degree flue pipe....

 

[CHeath]

outstanding man, thanks for doing that just for me. Nice stove as well.

 

[alex johnson]

outstanding man, thanks for doing that just for me. Nice stove as well.

That is not a professional job with the flue, but it's safe. I don't know if you are a car man, but like the guy earlier was talking about car exhaust, I was not specifically, speaking about the exhaust but, the principle that I am tlking about translates into so many facets of life that we never see. Real simple, cars come stock with exhausrt manifolds, people want to enhance the flow characteristics, by replacing the standard exhaust with headers, Smoother flow, you may not think that the 90 in your flue is bad but , it is Guaranteed slowing the draft down, especially with the horizontal run directly after the 90degree elbow. I have spent burning more things in my stoves smoke free than most could imagine. Smoke free, have you. Like i say on many of my videos, if there is no smoke, it is physically impossible to have the creosote that can catch fire. yes, i have creosote, but it is straight carbon. Feel free to call me any time, more than willing to help. I hated the first stove i bought for half the first winter. I had them come get my gas meter, I had to make it work or I wood freeze. then ifell in love with it. but hated the smoke that came out of it. I build the first lava rock stoves. One day my friend, peace

 

[ansehnlich1]

You have creosote. It appears you are burning wood that has a high moisture content. It also appears you are burning too cool as a result. Complicting the matter is the fact that you do not have a 6 in. liner in your chimney, which would greatly improve draft. Already mentioned is the elbow.

I've been down this road. Installation of the 6 inch insulated liner in my chimney made all the difference in the world.

I posted this in one of your earlier threads:

"Check early and check often for creosote, my gut tells me you may already have some.

A chimney fire is no fun.

And remove the wood shelf, it's combustible, and my bet is that it's proximity to that stove pipe is not up to code"

From what I believe to be your stove's manual:

F. Creosote

Creosote – Formation and Need for Removal When wood is burned slowly, it produces tar and other organic vapors,
which combine with expelled moisture to form creosote. The creosote vapors condense in the relatively cool chimney flue of a slow-burning fire.
As a result, creosote residue accumulates on the flue lining. When ignited, this creosote makes an extremely hot fire. The chimney connector
and chimney should be inspected at least twice monthly during the heating season to determine if a creosote buildup has occurred. If creosote has
accumulated it should be removed to reduce the risk of a chimney fire.

 

[ansehnlich1]

I would also add that it appears you have a basement install. Your setup may be causing spillage, meaning cold air rushing down the chimney. There are scenarios where the house itself is a better chimney than the chimney, and the draft of the air going up the stairs, or being sucked out of the house through a dryer vent, or stove fan, actually pulls air down the chimney, causing the odor you smell, which is creosote.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Damp wood is not the problem. Your wood is not seasoned. Your not going to get that much moisture from surface wetness.

 

[ArsenalDon]

The industry considers every 90 deg angle a reduction of 3ft of stove pipe. So it is not an "insignificant" amount if by chance you are already running a questionable install. Just info, nothing more.

Wow,,,,so I have 2 90 degree turns and a 30 degree turn on an 18 foot run from the stove....sounds like I am not in a good situation???

 

[Jags]

Wow,,,,so I have 2 90 degree turns and a 30 degree turn on an 18 foot run from the stove....sounds like I am not in a good situation???

You are lucky. You have one of the industries easiest breathing stoves around. If it works - don't fix it.

 

[alex johnson]

Wow,,,,so I have 2 90 degree turns and a 30 degree turn on an 18 foot run from the stove....sounds like I am not in a good situation???

You are in a good situation, your burning wood! Not rying to be a ass, from the research that I have done on all this, for every 90 degree elbow, you need 5 foot of vertical lift beyond what the manufacture states. I posted a video, on a stove that I build and installed in my sister's house. Take some of them 90's out and smoothe the flow characteristics, make slight angles, just like headers on your car. Smoother flow more horsepower. 90 degree elbows, with a horizontal run right after that ninety is not good, I feel. peace and some chicken grease..

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The 90 does decrease some but 2-3 foot is what the industry considers it lessens the height of the chimney. Some 45's can help but are not always necessary. A bigger concern is the horizontal section. Too many, and I've seen this one some videos of some guy posting recently, run the horizontal section flat. I've even seen them with a tilt down. Code calls for a 1/4" rise per foot of horizontal. Much better is a 1/2" rise per foot of horizontal.

Let's take an extreme situation. Our chimney is not at the recommended height to perform well. In addition, we have some horizontal (through the wall) and then a 90 to go up along side the house. Our stove has no problem with this so we do not intend to fix it.

Another extreme situation and not too smart is a horizontal section that ends horizontally rather than installing a 90 or a couple 45's so the chimney ends vertically rather than horizontally.

Also it is folly trying to compare the exhaust of a car to a stove. They are two different animals.

 

[TimJ]

Alex, through all of these posts, I have gotten an education on creasote, flue temps, air intake, and what have you. I'm probably doing almost everything wrong. The only thing I have changed to date is that I have dryer wood than I had last year. I know I am still getting creasote and it boils down to more than just dry wood. I'll keep learning until I get it close to right.