Need help with chimney placement (some simple diagrams)

[KJamesJR]

I posted a thread a while ago about converting our old pantry into an alcove, however now I'm reconsidering due to chimney placement.

The goal is to heat our back ells of the house which is the kitchen/dining room. Also to provide some supplemental heat to the main portion of our house.

Some simple diagrams are added showing size and placement of exterior windows and doors. It's not to scale.

The roof is an 8/12 pitch it seems.

The heater is going to be a Jotul F500.

Now whats got me with the chimney is this "stack effect". If the chimney is exiting through the eaves of the house, then most if the chimney will be outside and cold. Within 10' is also the ridge, so i'll need to go 2' above that... There's going to be a lot of chimney outside.

The other option is to install it in the center of the kitchen. The ceiling is vaulted here, most of the chimney would be kept inside the house. However this is a high traffic area (kids, dogs etc) so I'm concerned it may not be the best place. Those are really the only excuses I have for not installing in the center of the kitchen, it would just be inconvenient.

I read something about 'installing on the north side' being more efficient. So I was thinking maybe in the N/W corner of the rear-most ell, but would it heat the rest of the kitchen and a little of the house?

I'm a little lost and could use some guidance. Thanks again folks!

 

[begreen]

The central location of the kitchen sounds worth a thought. Not sure about the location, it's not marked on the sketch. There are other stoves that are good heaters but less radiant than the Oslo. A more convective stove will usually have closer clearances and that can mean it intrudes less into the traffic area.

 

[KJamesJR]

The central location of the kitchen sounds worth a thought. Not sure about the location, it's not marked on the sketch. There are other stoves that are good heaters but less radiant than the Oslo. A more convective stove will usually have closer clearances and that can mean it intrudes less into the traffic area.

The kitchen is the room directly attached to the main house. It’s the 17’x17’ room. It’s open concept so all the counters are against the north wall. There’s also a ceiling fan in this room. It’s about 12’ up in the air which I’m hoping will help move some heat regardless where I put the heater.

There’s old exposed beams running overhead and I’m not sure what’s behind the drywall. Trying to finess a big heater like the Oslo between all them would be a chore, but maybe not impossible.

Are convective stoves electric? Aside from the ceiling fan I’m trying not to reply completely on electricity.

Thanks again!

 

[HomeinPA]

I've got 28 feet of class A chimney on the outside of the house. No chase around it, just double wall insulated duratech. You won't have a problem with creosote if you burn it right.

 

[KJamesJR]

I've got 28 feet of class A chimney on the outside of the house. No chase around it, just double wall insulated duratech. You won't have a problem with creosote if you burn it right.

So a cold chimney will have less effect on draft and efficiency and more so on creosote buildup?

 

[HomeinPA]

So a cold chimney will have less effect on draft and efficiency and more so on creosote buildup?

They all go hand in hand. Your (my) biggest challenge for draft is that your house doesn't create a downdraft in your flue because of negative pressure -to tight, chimney to short, no makeup air..., once you deal with that and you burn a good stove correctly - dry wood, hot enough fire/exhaust, no excessive smoking....you should be fine. That's my experience anyway. I'm a couple states south of you but our winters are similar...basically, and as I mentioned I do not have excessive creosote build up. Actually I'd say I have minimal build up. The biggest keys are dry wood & a complete hot burn in the stove. Don't smolder the fire. If there is smoke coming out of the chimney in the middle of a burn cycle it needs to burn hotter. Smokey fires = creosote buildup in the chimney.

 

[begreen]

The kitchen is the room directly attached to the main house. It’s the 17’x17’ room. It’s open concept so all the counters are against the north wall. There’s also a ceiling fan in this room. It’s about 12’ up in the air which I’m hoping will help move some heat regardless where I put the heater.

There’s old exposed beams running overhead and I’m not sure what’s behind the drywall. Trying to finess a big heater like the Oslo between all them would be a chore, but maybe not impossible.

Are convective stoves electric? Aside from the ceiling fan I’m trying not to reply completely on electricity.

Thanks again!

Still don't have a sense of where the stove would be located in the kitchen. Can you mark it on the sketch and include a couple pictures of the kitchen and that location from different locations? Maybe also include a shot of the potential location in the other room too?

We have a convective heater and rarely use the blower and that is without a ceiling fan. If you have a ceiling fan you may not need a blower option for the stove.

 

[KJamesJR]

Sorry for delay, been pretty busy putting things in order for the new year.

I will certainly include more pictures and diagrams as soon I as get home this afternoon!

Thanks everyone for the replies thus far.

 

[KJamesJR]

Still don't have a sense of where the stove would be located in the kitchen. Can you mark it on the sketch and include a couple pictures of the kitchen and that location from different locations? Maybe also include a shot of the potential location in the other room too?

We have a convective heater and rarely use the blower and that is without a ceiling fan. If you have a ceiling fan you may not need a blower option for the stove.

Okay here are some images, First image detail the total layout.

2nd image is the vaulted kitchen. If I were to put the heater in the middle it would need to pass through there.

3rd images is the pantry I was initially going to convert to a large brick veneer alcove.

4th image is the far back corner. Another option, however I feel it defeats the purpose of a side loading door.

5th image is the floor plan updated with all areas marked.

 

[begreen]

Super, that really helps. I agree, it that the kitchen is not a good location. Not sure about your wife, but my wife would kill before she gave up that pantry. That leaves the far room. The opening between the far room and the kitchen is large enough to allow heat to convect into the room. The lower ceiling in this room also helps. I'd consider putting a stove where the shutter wall hanging is now, pointing directly toward the kitchen, not in the corner. You can continue the hearth to the right wall and use that area for tool and wood storage. The Jotul 500 would work there, but I would consider other stoves too. I'd also order a stove with a blower. With the stove pointed toward and blowing into the kitchen both rooms should be heated well. The kitchen area will need the ceiling fan running to distribute heat that will pocket at the ceiling peak.

 

[KJamesJR]

Super, that really helps. I agree, it that the kitchen is not a good location. Not sure about your wife, but my wife would kill before she gave up that pantry. That leaves the far room. The opening between the far room and the kitchen is large enough to allow heat to convect into the room. The lower ceiling in this room also helps. I'd consider putting a stove where the shutter wall hanging is now, pointing directly toward the kitchen, not in the corner. You can continue the hearth to the right wall and use that area for tool and wood storage. The Jotul 500 would work there, but I would consider other stoves too. I'd also order a stove with a blower. With the stove pointed toward and blowing into the kitchen both rooms should be heated well. The kitchen area will need the ceiling fan running to distribute heat that will pocket at the ceiling peak.

Funny... my wife wants the pantry to go. She was the one who suggested converting the pantry. Currently it’s only being used to store tools and recycling. My original idea was to actually put it in that back corner as you suggested.

We do have a friend who’s willing to part with “a blower”. In fact this person will be purchasing that little propane heater pictured above.

 

[begreen]

Ah well, different strokes. I like a blower that is integral with the stove with a deflector that properly directs the air over the stove top.

 

[HomeinPA]

Funny... my wife wants the pantry to go. She was the one who suggested converting the pantry. Currently it’s only being used to store tools and recycling. My original idea was to actually put it in that back corner as you suggested.

We do have a friend who’s willing to part with “a blower”. In fact this person will be purchasing that little propane heater pictured above.

If you're considering dumping the pantry here's a thought - Take out the entire pantry (or make a smaller 30" broom closet) and put the stove facing the back walland run a class A straight up where it would have been with an alcove. You could still load from the side and the stove would be centered in the room for more even distribution of heat. If that wall between the rooms is a bearing wall you'd need to put a beam in there but it seems doable. You'll also be closer to the door and won't have to drag wood through the room. You could make a raised hearth as wide as the current closet and the back wall behind the stove could be finished in manf. stone or brick without being to heavy. Throw up ceiling fan and you're good to go.

 

[KJamesJR]

Ah well, different strokes. I like a blower that is integral with the stove with a deflector that properly directs the air over the stove top.

What other stoves would you consider? We like the Jøtul lineup because they’re non-catalysts and the overall style matches the house. I’m still open to other options however.

 

[KJamesJR]

If you're considering dumping the pantry here's a thought - Take out the entire pantry (or make a smaller 30" broom closet) and put the stove facing the back walland run a class A straight up where it would have been with an alcove. You could still load from the side and the stove would be centered in the room for more even distribution of heat. If that wall between the rooms is a bearing wall you'd need to put a beam in there but it seems doable. You'll also be closer to the door and won't have to drag wood through the room. You could make a raised hearth as wide as the current closet and the back wall behind the stove could be finished in manf. stone or brick without being to heavy. Throw up ceiling fan and you're good to go.

I like this idea a lot and had drawn a similar mock up before being disgruntled about draft and stack effect. Then decided to throw it out.

It’s not a load bearing wall, just stick frames.

So back corner wall is still favorable followed by this.

 

[begreen]

There are several, take a look at the Quadrafire Explorer (II or III), the Pacific Energy Alderlea (T5 or T6) and the Jotul F45 or F55.

How many sq ft in the two areas?

 

[KJamesJR]

There are several, take a look at the Quadrafire Explorer (II or III), the Pacific Energy Alderlea (T5 or T6) and the Jotul F45 or F55.

How many sq ft in the two areas?

About 545 sq ft total.

 

[begreen]

OK, then the smaller these stoves would be more than adequate. If the stove is not in the corner, but aligned with the openings between the building spaces then with the blower it would also push some heat into the main section of the house.

 

[sutphenj]

My experience has been the same as HomeinPA regarding external pipe. I have 23ft of external pipe on my F55 and she drafts like a race horse and my pipe thus far is darn near crystal clean. There seems to be a lot of fear around here regarding external chimney installs maybe due in part to old smoke dragons....not sure though.

 

[KJamesJR]

My experience has been the same as HomeinPA regarding external pipe. I have 23ft of external pipe on my F55 and she drafts like a race horse and my pipe thus far is darn near crystal clean. There seems to be a lot of fear around here regarding external chimney installs maybe due in part to old smoke dragons....not sure though.

Well my other concern regarding stack effect was there’s a whole other part of the house attached to these rooms. The diagrams I pulled up were showing negative, positive and neutral zones etc etc.

My concerns were a cold stack but also the height. I would have to run the chimney pretty high to get over the ridge of the main part of the house, and possibly even the masonry chimney over there as well. To create a “negative pressure” in the new chimney. Which doesn’t seem to be the case. I can just run it 2’ higher than the ridge or whatever’s within 10’.

I think maybe I was just overthinking it, but I want to make sure I was doing a legit instal.

 

[begreen]

An exterior flue often costs more and is less efficient and not as good looking, but can work fine if the chimney is tall enough. In one story installs inadequate height can be an issue for draft due to the two 90º turns in the flue system.

 

[KJamesJR]

View attachment 221765

An exterior flue often costs more and is less efficient and not as good looking, but can work fine if the chimney is tall enough. In one story installs inadequate height can be an issue for draft due to the two 90º turns in the flue system.

Yes, so if I’m not putting it straight up through the room close the ridge, it would end up looking like the flue on the left, coming out near the eve. Because the roof is pitched so high the stack would be at least 16’ from the heater to the top. Probably higher than that.

I’m not really concerned about cost because it can’t be any more than we’re spending on LP. Whatever the setup is will pay for itself in a year.

 

[sutphenj]

View attachment 221765

An exterior flue often costs more and is less efficient and not as good looking, but can work fine if the chimney is tall enough. In one story installs inadequate height can be an issue for draft due to the two 90º turns in the flue system.

"Not as good looking" is definitely subjective. I for one like the look of the stainless pipe against my log siding. Being able to clean it from the ground via the T fitting is also a thing of beauty.

 

[KJamesJR]

So I guess I figured out I wont be converting the pantry after all. Manual states no side loading in alcove for the F500. I'd like to know what exactly qualifies as an alcove? The space I had in mind is 8' wide by 4' deep and 7' high... Seems like there'd be plenty of room for a side loading door? Lame.

This was a super rough sketch my wife and I came up with... I'm kind of a sketchup noob but its really a powerful tool once you get deeper in to it.

 

[Niko]

also keep in mind putting the stove close to door with access for wood coming into the house.