Need small stove , has VC gotten better ?

[oldgrezmonke]

We may be getting a better home soon . The place that interests us most is mostly underground and will need a much smaller stove to provide heat . The Vermont Castings Aspen seems to be the best choice-the lowest output using average size wood with glass in the door to see the fire . In the past there were questions about the quality of their products-has that improved ? All the other smaller stoves I can find either have more output than the Aspen [I could use slightly less] or , if smaller [like the marine stoves] , no glass in the door and use short wood [6" , 10"] . If someone knows of a stove with about 5,000-15,000 BTUs with a glass in door and uses more normal length wood or at least longer than 10" and a flat top to allow heating food , I would like to look at it [there are no big restrictions on wood stoves where I live here in Tennessee] . Thanks for any suggestions .

 

[schortie]

The concerns over Vermont Castings expressed on this sight have been focused on their Everburn technology and warranty issues. The Aspen does not use the Everburn system (I'm pretty sure it uses a more traditional baffle design for secondary combustion) and stoves purchased after 2007 are covered under the VC or CFM warranties. I haven't heard of issues related to the quality of their products.

 

[webbie]

That model should serve you well in that climate. It's not the top of the line, but a decent value.

The issues with VC are mostly centered about their recent bankruptcies and sales (two in the last 3 years)......and, worse yet, for the first time in history the new company has refused to honor all the 3 year warranties from stoves already sold. That, IMHO, would disqualify them from my own personal purchasing consideration......but that is me. I don't like a company that wants the "good" parts of VC but refused to take responsibility for the bad. I think they could have...and still can....do a much better job at taking care of existing customers.

I have not heard a peep from them in the industry either - no PR, etc.

Still, the Aspen is not a bad deal or a bad stove. We have members who are happy with them.

 

[oldgrezmonke]

Good , past forum entries had had some posts about quality and many concerns about warranty coverage . I am glad to hear the buyout transition problems have been worked out .
Still , if any one knows of a smaller stove that meets my guidelines , please speak up .

 

[begreen]

How large is this space? Are the walls/roof insulated?

There are many small stoves (1 cu ft or less) out there. Some manufacturers are Morso, Jotul, Napoleon, and Pacific Energy. You might want to look at the Napoleon 1150P if the stove will be used frequently for cooking.

 

[oldgrezmonke]

The home is a converted basement [the original house was destroyed in some manner] , 1140 square feet , with only an access area overhead which has standard ceiling joists and insulation . The concrete walls and floor are in direct contact with the ground and there are inner walls of 2x4's , insulation and drywall . There is only limited solar gain . Similar homes range in temperature , without additional heating or cooling , from 60[F] to 75[F] . My wife and I have arthritis which responds poorly to temperatures much below 75[F] . The space would only need the amount of heat that an average above ground house of 300-400 square feet would need , hence the need for a small stove . There were "marine" stoves of that size but without a view of the fire plus pricey . I do not intend to regularly cook on the stove , just in case of utility problems . The Jotul , Morso and Napolean [esp. the 1150] offerings have too much output as do regular wood cookstoves as well the two soapstone companies of which I know . I just looked at Pacific Energy , also none small enough in output .

 

[Nic36]

I have the small Pacific Energy Vista and I heat about 800 square feet with it. I would guess the room it is in is about 400 square feet and it gets most of the heat. I have an odd-shaped open floor plan house.

The point I am trying to make is not to take the wood stove heat ratings to literally. I think my stove is rated for up to 1400 square feet. I really don't think it would comfortably heat a typical multi-room 1400 square feet home, especially in a northern climate. However, it does quite well in my house (and then some), which is only about 830 square feet. I would say 1000 square feet would be good for it.

Don't let that heating capacity rating fool you.

Morso makes some small stoves that are rated about 800-1000 square feet. I don't think that would be overkill for you. You can always burn smaller fires if need be.

 

[oldgrezmonke]

I have the small Pacific Energy Vista and I heat about 800 square feet with it. I would guess the room it is in is about 400 square feet and it gets most of the heat. I have an odd-shaped open floor plan house.

The point I am trying to make is not to take the wood stove heat ratings to literally. I think my stove is rated for up to 1400 square feet. I really don't think it would comfortably heat a typical multi-room 1400 square feet home, especially in a northern climate. However, it does quite well in my house (and then some), which is only about 830 square feet. I would say 1000 square feet would be good for it.

Don't let that heating capacity rating fool you.

Morso makes some small stoves that are rated about 800-1000 square feet. I don't think that would be overkill for you. You can always burn smaller fires if need be.

This is an earth-sheltered space that will only need the heating capacity as an average above-ground space of 300-400 square feet . I don't want to have the stove choked down/smoldering most of the time . Even the Aspen is a bit over-capacity .

 

[savageactor7]

oldgrezmonke are you moving into a cave or earth home? A lot of us would like to see pics of that.

Sure a smaller stove will work,because earth homes are mostly covered with dirt (underground) you're only heating the difference between 55* and whatever your magic number is. I read about them in Mother Earth news back in the 70's and always wanted to build one.

 

[Nic36]

Maybe I misunderstood the area you are trying to heat.

I looked at the Aspen specs and see that it is rated less than the smallest Morso 1410 stove. However, the Morso is only 180 pounds and can only take 12" logs, whereas the Aspen is 240 pounds and takes 16" logs. I don't know firebox sizes of each, but the Morso is pretty tiny-only about 15 inches wide on each side. The Aspen is 15 inches wide and 22 inches long. I would think smaller fires would be easier in the Morso than the Aspen, but I'm not sure. Maybe the Morso is more efficient. It may even be that VC is more accurate in reporting the heating capacity of their stove.

I have personally laid eyes on an Aspen, but have never seen a Morso stove. The Aspen was the stove I was initially going to buy, but I later bought a PE stove for a few reasons. The Aspens seemed to have mixed reviews. You might want to check out the stove rating section. If I recall correctly, I think drafting was a big issue with the Aspen.

Another thing you can do to minimize overheating your home is to use double wall stove pipe on your stove. You will lose heat transference into your room, but the hot air going up the flue will help your draft and keep creosote levels down.

 

[oldgrezmonke]

Maybe I misunderstood the area you are trying to heat.
Another thing you can do to minimize overheating your home is to use double wall stove pipe on your stove. You will lose heat transference into your room, but the hot air going up the flue will help your draft and keep creosote levels down.

An earth sheltered space does require a different thought process . There is only a very slow temperature swing [months , not hours] and almost no wind chill or infiltration . The most heat I would need is like an above ground space at 55-60[F] . If not for the arthritis which needs warmth , probably could get by without much extra heat at all .
Using more insulated pipe is a good idea-I probably wouldn't miss the extra heat as it appears the lowest output stove I can find will have btu's to spare .

 

[oldgrezmonke]

oldgrezmonke are you moving into a cave or earth home? A lot of us would like to see pics of that.

Sure a smaller stove will work,because earth homes are mostly covered with dirt (underground) you're only heating the difference between 55* and whatever your magic number is. I read about them in Mother Earth news back in the 70's and always wanted to build one.

Hello there , I used to read Mother Earth also .
It is a basement converted into living space after the original home was destroyed , by what I have not yet been told . I have no pictures . If I buy the place , I might see about pictures. Anyway there is not much to see as most of the space is below ground . Just a roof line that goes from 8' to 8" above ground to accommodate a door to reach the stairs to go down . Also the interior is a mess-a botched remodel .

 

[begreen]

If this space is well insulated, heating with wood, except during the day, for short fires might be impractical. There are little marine stoves, but they need constant feeding. How is the space heated now? As described, it sounds like an electric space heater would suffice.

FWIW, many people underestimate stove size. It takes more than one might think to heat up a place, especially when the temps are low. However, here is a link to the Little Cod, a good boat heater:

http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm

 

[oldgrezmonke]

If this space is well insulated, heating with wood, except during the day, for short fires might be impractical. There are little marine stoves, but they need constant feeding. How is the space heated now? As described, it sounds like an electric space heater would suffice.
FWIW, many people underestimate stove size. It takes more than one might think to heat up a place, especially when the temps are low. However, here is a link to the Little Cod, a good boat heater:http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm

I looked at the Little Cod before I posted my question . It has slightly less output than the Aspen , but , it has no view of the fire , uses 10" wood , 4" pipe , costs more and is "built to order"-as much as 6 months to receive . It does seem to be good quality , just not a good fit for my use .

I was hoping someone might be aware of a smaller output house unit , but it appears the Aspen is the winner .

The space is presently equipped with a vastly over-sized gas forced air system which appears to be on it's last legs . I would take that out . As a "code" source of heat , I would install the smallest catalytic gas wall heater [10,000 btu] with a thermostat I can find . As I have thought on this , I believe I would closely surround the wood stove with thermal mass [concrete , brick , stone] which would absorb some of the heat while the stove would be burning like the soapstone stoves do to be released later . I figure one good burn a day would suffice . A small electric space heater would do if we only needed 68* , but my wife and I have arthritis and 75-80* is our comfort range . We live in a rural area where electricity is moderately expensive and natural gas is quite expensive [almost as much per btu as propane] but wood is very cheap . Also , though infrequent , electric outages are often long .

Thanks for the advise , everybody . I think I have a plan , if we buy the place .

 

[begreen]

A smaller Woodstock soapstone heater is what I would look into. With the catalytic combustor they can run long times on lower burns. I didn't mention it because of the cooking. But maybe it would be better to focus on heating and not worry about the cooking as a priority. Most any other stove, including the Aspen is going to need frequent refueling.

 

[Highbeam]

So it sounds like you have someone's old basement with a standard roof/truss setup on top and a doorway through the gable end. This basement is 1140SF. I've been in basements that had a door to close them off from the above heated space and they were cold. I think you give the below grade walls too much credit for helping you and the ceiling too little credit for hurting you. If I were you, and I too like 75 degrees, I would be looking at the normal size stoves to heat 1140 SF. Otherwise you will be depending on that gas wall heater quite a bit.

I particularly like the small offerings from Jotul and Morso.

 

[wayneg]

I have the Morso 1410 in my cabin and the Jotul F100 in my home. I like both stoves. Both are easy to operate, throw off about the same heat, and burn cleanly with the secondary combustion. The Jotul takes up to a 16" log and the Morso only up to a 12". The 12" max on the Morso initially concerned me, but now I like it. Since I process all my own wood, I just cut short rounds which are much easier to hand split (now that I'm over 50 I appreciate the easier splitting!). The Morso with its flat top is much easier (and faster) to cook on than the Jotul with its "sweater pattern" top. Both stoves have a nice fire view.

 

[WILDSOURDOUGH]

My 3 cents-
I would go with what BeGreen said- a Woodstock Soapstone. They make VERY good stoves, hold and despence the heat longer and I would
always plan for "worst case" heating capacity- a really long cold spell with wind. The gentle heat of the soapstone might help ease those sore joints. Don't know the models- but know they come in all sizes.
Best to You.

 

[PunKid8888]

I use to love my moms Aspen. Very easy to use and the glass stayed very clean. the fire box is small but the 16inch log can be streached to 17 or maybe 18in if the split is real small. The fire brick really helps keep the heat flowing even when the fire is dieing down.

I used it for probably 5 seasons in a 22ft by 19ft garage with an open truss roof probably equivilant to 600sqft. R13 in the walls and R19 on the roof, with one wall attached to the house. I would run it all weekend to work on my projects. It never had a problem getting the garage up to temp and would last upwards of 8hrs on a full load (which would be 3 meduim size splits if that) It seamed like a very effeicent stove the way it burned front to back.

If Vermont casting made a similar stove but slighty larger (18inch log) I would get it in a heart beat for my 1100 sqft single level house.