Needing Assistance in Figuring Out Which Stove

[Ashful]

Hogz gives great advice, from more years of experience than I, but I'm going to offer a counter view, nonetheless. Size the stove for 80 - 90% of your heating needs, and it's much more manageable in your long shoulder seasons. Do you really mind if the furnace needs to play second fiddle a couple really cold nights per year? The intermittent usage will ensure you keep your old boiler in good repair, and you'll still be getting the majority of your BTUs from the wood stove on those cold days, so propane or electron usage will be minimized.

 

[Parallax]

The C160 Striker is a small stove. You would need a couple to keep your place warm.

Answering the other question, the main downside with the Ashford will be that there isn't much to look at for a fireview most of time. Unless the stove is being pushed there will be little flame, just a glowing cat doing its job.

Hey, thanks. I know it's way too small long term. Just wondering if it might be practical to have someone put it in for now and then replace it come summer. It would get us at least some heat. The question is would the stove pipe and the rest of the install be complete, making the switch easy, or would it just be like starting over, maybe even having to undo the damage from the previous install?

 

[Parallax]

That stove is going to be too small for the square footage your looking to heat.
You should really consider centrally locating the stove. Without a good convection loop, the heat may not travel across from one side of the house to the other as your hoping.
It will spread more evenly if centrally located.
You may find during the milder weather the Ashford may heat the place fairly well, but if you get any cold snap for weather, it is doubtful it will heat 2600+ sf.
I am burning a 3cf insert, and I am glad I went no smaller, though we get colder temps than you. There are about a handful of days each season, I wish I had an even larger firebox with more output.
Just don't want to see you spend that money and in the dead of winter have issues with a full firebox, not being able to keep up with the heat demand.
There are many here that regret that mistake.
Research is your friend, no sense rushing into a choice, that you will regret later.
I'd say pick 2 or 3 stoves that come as close as possible to your wants & needs, then narrow down to one,
If you let form override function, that may be regrettable also in the end.

When you say that stove will be too small, are you referring to the Striker (definitely too small) or the Ashford?

 

[begreen]

Hey, thanks. I know it's way too small long term. Just wondering if it might be practical to have someone put it in for now and then replace it come summer. It would get us at least some heat. The question is would the stove pipe and the rest of the install be complete, making the switch easy, or would it just be like starting over, maybe even having to undo the damage from the previous install?

The pipe condition and stove condition would be very important. If the stove have been frequently overfired or pushed hard and the pipe has seen consistent too high temps then it would be better to pass on the deal no matter how good it seems.

 

[Hogwildz]

The Striker is definitely too small, and honesty, I can't see spending cash on a stove, knowing you going to be pulling it next year and spending more cash on another stove.
You may get some of your money back posting it on Craig's list or such, but why go through all that?

The Ashford, while a very nice stove, is rated 1,100 to 2,400 SF, the later being a hard stretch, needing optimal house layout (very open floor plan), which I don't see you having.
To get the most from any stove, your going to have to centrally locate it. Otherwise one side of the house will be warm, the other will be cold.

Hey, I could be wrong, just offering my input.
I have a very open floor plan, upstairs, half the house it open, of that half, half of that is open cathedral ceiling about 3 stories high, with a ceiling fan that is always running to hep move air.
The other half of the open space is a loft also open to the cathedral ceiling. One big cathedral ceiling on the upper floor. The other side of the upstairs is 2 bedrooms with a bath between them.
They heat fine if the bedroom doors are left open, and at least one of the bathroom doors between the bedrooms is open.
In my opinion, this is almost as optimal an open floor plan as I can ask for.
I do have one room on the first floor back in the corner that has a door sized opening(no door), that is cold. It also need some insulation and closing up of some air gaps, but there is just no circulation in this one room.
I say cold it is prolly 10 degrees maybe then the rest of the lower level. Upstairs is obviously the warmest area.
Now with all this going in my favor, when we hit teens single digits(wind chill etc), My 3cf Summit while it can heat the place, does not keep it at 75 degrees. It may peak at 70-72, and prior to next load is may be anywhere from 62 to 68 depending on the temp and wind outside.

Now you have a horseshoe shaped home with a staircase and no real convection loop going to be happening. You will most likely need box fans to push cold air from one side of the house to the other id you set the stove in one end of the home. Centrally surely will heat more evenly, and even if you need to use fans, you don't have to push air as far. You may even consider a ceiling fan in the room you install the stove, if feasible, and passable through the wife.

I realize you may have milder temps, but the shear square footage and layout of your place is the hurdle, and yest the stove room may be hot.
A BK stove or maybe other cat maybe be much more beneficial in this scenario, but if you get temps below freezing or 20's, your going to be pushing any stove to put out more heat. This is where the advantage of the cat stove diminishes and is more equal to a secondary burn stove. You will find those long burns times shortening up, and I think also that either of those stoves will not keep up it you need the added heat output.

Like I said, I could be wrong, just hate to see ya find out the stove ain't enough after purchase and install.
You can always sell it, but you won't recoup what you put into it.
Since you are so close to Tom at Chimneysweep, I would be visiting him if I was you, and maybe even see if he can come look at tyour place and plans of layout, and get his input.
He may agree on the sizing, or may feel your okay with what your shooting for.

Some photos and a diagram of your place would really help a lot, and get you more input.
Keep in mind I am going by what you have told us, and have a certain picture in my mind of what your home layout may be. That may be close, or way off.
I just feel trying to heat a large home like that, with that layout is going to be a stretch for almost any stove you get.
What are your lowest outside temps in the winter? If your mainly in the 40's, then maybe the Ashford will do ya.
I find at around 20 and below, I can feel the difference, and even seems that is around where the fiberglass insulation in this place starts losing its insulating value.

 

[Chris_Up_North]

In response: I think the wood boiler will be a bit more expensive if you aren't doing it yourself. I'm thinking $10k range, but this is just a guess. The one I'm thinking of in VT which had outdoor fired radiant heat cost about $4k installed, but it was not a gasification boiler, which is what I'm guessing they would require in your state at this time. That being said, you can have it 80F all winter long if you like along with unlimited wickedly hot tap water if you like. Wife loved it for the large mid-winter baths that would strip the skin off a normal human being from being too hot.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks to both of you and to Joyful, above. Will get hold of Tom and get his two cents, and will also check out ask around about wood boilers.

 

[Todd]

I think if I were in your shoes I'd go with the Ashford. With the newer house in a PNW environment burning mostly softwood you most likely won't get those 12+ hour burns consistantly with any other stove.

If the Ashford burns anything like my previous similar sized Princess you should be fine. I heated 2200 sq ft in a lot colder climate and it did fine 90% of the time. If your furnace kicks on once in awhile during a bad cold spell I wouldn't worry, your still going to save big time on propane.

 

[tcassavaugh]

I see the logic in getting the small used stove right now. if he spends "next to nothing" on a stove and it helps him save big $$$ in propane costs, he's already ahead. also, when it comes to the new stove, its ready for switch-out next season. The problem I see is that finding wood ready to burn might be a problem.

 

[webby3650]

Thanks for all the advice on the wood. I'll get going on that and just stack it up in the yard for now.

People have been suggesting some beautiful stoves that seem nicer looking than the Ashford. But none would seem to burn anywhere near as long. I'm starting to think the practical considerations justify going with the Ashford, even if it means compromising on the view of the fire and the box itself. Does anyone think I'm off base.

This is for those who know the Ashford. What is that weird stuff on the back of the stove? Seems like two pieces run behind the firebox, one on each side of the pipe. What are they for?

Also, need I be concerned that the firebox is 2.75 cubic feet, rather than 3.0 like the CC and some of the other large stoves?

That "weird stuff" is the back of the firebox and the space age air control. The Ashford is a Sirrico with cast iron cladding. The firebox is nearly square, the iron is more traditional looking being rectangular in appearance like most cast stoves but with the advantage of a square firebox.

As for the Cape Cod being larger? I know it claims 3', but unless you cut your wood 24" long, you aren't using it all. Most wood is 16-18" in length, therefore you are only able to utilize a portion of the firebox. In my experience, I can fit more wood in the Ashford than the Cod. The same would go with the Manchester, it's shallow and wide. The small side door is a plus, but unless your wood is 24" long it doesn't make much difference.

 

[Parallax]

You folks are so helpful. Cannot tell you how much I appreciate it.

The longer we talk, the more strongly I lean toward the Ashford. Just want to see it to make sure it looks nice enough.

I imagine, even turned up, it's not going to have as beautiful a fire as the Cape Code because of the latter's huge window and secondary burn around the cat. I would imagine the Manchester might be more beautiful too, both as a stove and the fire within the box. Will definitely take a look at the Manchester when I can get over to the Chimneysweep in the next few days. But the Ashford seems like the stove that would best serve our needs, running low through the day, keeping the place warm for when we get home, and able to kick up higher when necessary.

As for the used stove, as a stopgap, I'd have to find someone to install it and who might later switch it out for the Ashford (or whichever stove we finally purchase). Would also have to make sure it was in good enough condition to use for a season. What should I look for?

Wood isn't going to be a problem. A friend offered to let us have some of his. Maybe not enough to heat the whole place but should at least help keep the place warm this winter.

 

[Ashful]

I see the logic in getting the small used stove right now. if he spends "next to nothing" on a stove and it helps him save big $$$ in propane costs, he's already ahead. also, when it comes to the new stove, its ready for switch-out next season. The problem I see is that finding wood ready to burn might be a problem.

I agree, assuming no money needs to be spent bringing this stove up to operating condition. If the stove is good to go, I'd lean that way, myself. Theory: he's going to learn a lot in his first year, about what his needs really are. Assuming no major hearth work has to be done to make this happen, and that all money spent will aid in the final installation, a "throw-away" stove can be an excellent learning experience.

The longer we talk, the more strongly I lean toward the Ashford. Just want to see it to make sure it looks nice enough.

Anyone who spends much time around here can tell you I'm pretty particular about the cosmetics of my house and stoves. The Ashford might not be the most beautiful stove on the market (I lean towards the styling of Vermont Castings and Jotul), but it IS the most beautiful high performance catalytic stove on the market. Nothing can touch the wide performance range of a cat stove, and Blaze King in particular. I don't think this stove is anywhere near as pretty as a Jotul, nor do I think they're made quite as nicely, but they will outperform any stove on the market by a very good margin. If I were buying a NEW stove today, I think the Ashford would be at the top of my list.

 

[Parallax]

I agree, assuming no money needs to be spent bringing this stove up to operating condition. If the stove is good to go, I'd lean that way, myself. Theory: he's going to learn a lot in his first year, about what his needs really are. Assuming no major hearth work has to be done to make this happen, and that all money spent will aid in the final installation, a "throw-away" stove can be an excellent learning experience.


Anyone who spends much time around here can tell you I'm pretty particular about the cosmetics of my house and stoves. The Ashford might not be the most beautiful stove on the market (I lean towards the styling of Vermont Castings and Jotul), but it IS the most beautiful high performance catalytic stove on the market. Nothing can touch the wide performance range of a cat stove, and Blaze King in particular. I don't think this stove is anywhere near as pretty as a Jotul, nor do I think they're made quite as nicely, but they will outperform any stove on the market by a very good margin. If I were buying a NEW stove today, I think the Ashford would be at the top of my list.

Thanks for the feedback. Was just thinking the same thing; that a season with a stove that's too small would teach me so much about lighting it, running it, living with it. What I don't know is how to identify problems with a used stove but I seem to recall a thread that dealt with that, which I'm going to research now.

Based on what I've read here, I'm very much leaning toward the Ashford but also want to take some time to see it and also some of the other stoves that others have mentioned. Will see if there's a Jotul dealer near here. If I'm recalling correctly, Webby wrote in some thread that he likes that brand very much but considers the Vermont Castings not up to par -- not sure if he was speaking of design or workmanship.

 

[Ashful]

Will see if there's a Jotul dealer near here. If I'm recalling correctly, Webby wrote in some thread that he likes that brand very much but considers the Vermont Castings not up to par -- not sure if he was speaking of design or workmanship.

Unfortunately, Jotul stopped making catalytic stoves, due to the higher volume of support issues they generate. Jotul makes some of the best non-cat stoves on the market, but if you want the benefits of a catalytic stove, they won't be the ticket. They used to make catalytic stoves in the past, and have rumored they're considering making them again, but not at the present.

Vermont Castings is to be avoided for a whole host of reasons. Their EPA stoves have been historically difficult and temperamental designs, requiring much more than the usual level of maintenance. Their parent company completely screwed their customer base, when they dropped warranty support on all recently sold new stoves, as part of a buy-out. Their new stoves (2-in-1) have had many issues with the rear firebox refractory breaking (sometimes several times per year) on a few members here. There are very few full-time burners who will rain praise on Vermont Castings, although their stoves are absolutely beautiful to look at.

 

[Parallax]

Unfortunately, Jotul stopped making catalytic stoves, due to the higher volume of support issues they generate. Jotul makes some of the best non-cat stoves on the market, but if you want the benefits of a catalytic stove, they won't be the ticket. They used to make catalytic stoves in the past, and have rumored they're considering making them again, but not at the present.

Vermont Castings is to be avoided for a whole host of reasons. Their EPA stoves have been historically difficult and temperamental designs, requiring much more than the usual level of maintenance. Their parent company completely screwed their customer base, when they dropped warranty support on all recently sold new stoves, as part of a buy-out. Their new stoves (2-in-1) have had many issues with the rear firebox refractory breaking (sometimes several times per year) on a few members here. There are very few full-time burners who will rain praise on Vermont Castings, although their stoves are absolutely beautiful to look at.

Thanks. Do you have a sense of why catalytic stoves would generate a higher volume of support issues?

 

[toddnic]

Parallax, I would encourage you to also take a look at the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. Our home is just slightly smaller than yours (2400 sq. ft.) and it keeps our house incredibly warm. Because the stove has hundreds of pounds of soapstone in it, it really radiates the heat for hours after the fire goes out. I[m also getting anywhere from 8 to 14 hour burn times depending upon the amount and type of wood I am burning. The stove is also quite beautiful. You can find more information at www.woodstove.com.

 

[Parallax]

Parallax, I would encourage you to also take a look at the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. Our home is just slightly smaller than yours (2400 sq. ft.) and it keeps our house incredibly warm. Because the stove has hundreds of pounds of soapstone in it, it really radiates the heat for hours after the fire goes out. I[m also getting anywhere from 8 to 14 hour burn times depending upon the amount and type of wood I am burning. The stove is also quite beautiful. You can find more information at www.woodstove.com.

Seems like a great stove. Couple of questions. First, with soapstone, there's going to be a degree of lag when the unit is heated, right? If I fire it up, how long before one gets the huge output of heat that the stove can clearly muster? Second, I'm not seeing a dealer network. Would there be any way to get a look at the thing before buying and who would provide service if something went wrong?

 

[Parallax]

Yesterday, I scored some chord wood. Once I got it home, the pile, tightly stacked was around 4 1/2 by 7 by 3 feet high, so maybe just shy of 3/4 of a chord. Not bad for $30 plus a few hours schlepping (though, in the future, I'm having it delivered). The wood appears to be mostly fir with some alder thrown in. Has probably been drying for about a year. Not sure how I'm gonna find the quantity of wood necessary to heat a home. Also, given that my neighborhood CC&Rs limit me to a woodshed no more than 100 square feet, how am I going to stove enough wood for a season (while preparing for the year after too)?

Here are some photos of a stove I could purchase for $300 or less. Would be just a starter stove, to be replaced next summer. Would have to fix the door seal. The box looked alright but this insulation at the top pulled down. How does that work? Wouldn't insulation at the top of the box burn right up?

Some of the tiles were cracked but the box itself seemed alright. I've got photos of the box that can be posted.

The setup is from 1990. The stove pipe alone would cost way more than $300 but is it usable with a modern stove? If I bought the Ashford or something else this summer, would the pipe have to be changed out?

What you think? Should I grab this stove, steer clear or investigate further?

 

[toddnic]

Seems like a great stove. Couple of questions. First, with soapstone, there's going to be a degree of lag when the unit is heated, right? If I fire it up, how long before one gets the huge output of heat that the stove can clearly muster? Second, I'm not seeing a dealer network. Would there be any way to get a look at the thing before buying and who would provide service if something went wrong?

If you are trying to heat up a cold stove it is going to take you around an hour or so to get it to 400 - 450 degrees if you have good kindling and dry wood. It definitely takes longer to get the stove up to temp when it is starting from scratch. The plus side is that it continues to radiate heat for hours after the fire has gone out. It also uses less wood due to its efficiency. It is amazing the difference in wood use from my old days with a "fire breathing dragon" to this stove. I tend to keep it in the 450 degree range for regular heating and can add more air and wood to achieve higher temperatures when necessary.

Regarding installation, service, and support, Woodstock is known for its superb customer care. Our stove was shipped directly to us and we installed it ourselves. I'm sure that there are builders or those familiar with woodstoves in your area that can help you with the installation process. Woodstock may even be able to give you the names of a few people in your area that can help you with installation. Also, Woodstock could probably give you the names of a few people in your area that could show you their stove. They are truly works of art!

 

[Parallax]

If you are trying to heat up a cold stove it is going to take you around an hour or so to get it to 400 - 450 degrees if you have good kindling and dry wood. It definitely takes longer to get the stove up to temp when it is starting from scratch. The plus side is that it continues to radiate heat for hours after the fire has gone out. It also uses less wood due to its efficiency. It is amazing the difference in wood use from my old days with a "fire breathing dragon" to this stove. I tend to keep it in the 450 degree range for regular heating and can add more air and wood to achieve higher temperatures when necessary.

Regarding installation, service, and support, Woodstock is known for its superb customer care. Our stove was shipped directly to us and we installed it ourselves. I'm sure that there are builders or those familiar with woodstoves in your area that can help you with the installation process. Woodstock may even be able to give you the names of a few people in your area that can help you with installation. Also, Woodstock could probably give you the names of a few people in your area that could show you their stove. They are truly works of art!

Thanks.

 

[SteveKG]

Another kudo for Tom/ChimneySweepOnline. Bought a cookstove from him a couple yr. ago after finding out about his co. on this forum. Good to work with. Consult him with all the info and expectations and he can steer you towards your best choices in stoves. He is also quite knowledgable regarding chimney/stovepipe issues. And about everything else wood-burning related.

Start getting firewood now or soon. Even if you don't have a shed, you will have it and know for sure how it has been stored. If you don't mind some labor, perhaps you can save some $$ by buying rounds instead of split wood, split it yourself. But the savings may not be enough for you to bother if you are not inclined to swing an axe or run a hydraulic splitter. You said it rains a lot, so the sooner you can construct a shed for the wood, the better, too.

Happy shopping.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks. Now that I think about it, I was out to the ChimneySweep on Harris. That was actually the first stove shop I visited. There was a nice salesman who really impressed me and I was inclined to return. He said they would send someone out to take a look at my home and do an estimate, no cost.

When I called again, I got hold of the owner. He was not friendly. When I asked if he would come out to my home, he said he would charge for the call. I said his salesman had said they don't charge. He replied, "That's why he doesn't work here anymore."

I went there again to take another look at the stoves, this time with my wife. The owner was working with someone else. He didn't even grunt in our direction, let alone say that he would be with us soon. We looked at his stoves but nothing jumped out at us. We left, having felt no reason to ever return.

If people here think he's the best guy in town, I could check the place out again. At this point, I've been impressed with the guy who sells Blaze Kings in our city. Still need to see the stove before deciding it's the right one for us.

 

[hack]

People have been suggesting some beautiful stoves that seem nicer looking than the Ashford. But none would seem to burn anywhere near as long

I like cat stoves a lot, but make sure you get a BIG one if your goal is long burn times. Based on your sq/ft, I don't think the Ashford is big enough for you to experience those impressive burn times. You will have to run it at a higher setting and the burn times will be similar to that of non-cat stoves of a similar size. The BK's are known for great burn times but that is only if you are able to leave it at a low setting. After all, that is the benefit of the cat stove. Long and low. Go bigger.

I currently have the Princess but have a new King sitting in the garage waiting to be installed. My priority is burn times and I have to run the Princess too hard to get the heat I want. Its a lot cheaper to get the right stove the first time.

 

[Kool_hand_Looke]

What about an indoor wood furnace?

 

[Parallax]

I like cat stoves a lot, but make sure you get a BIG one if your goal is long burn times. Based on your sq/ft, I don't think the Ashford is big enough for you to experience those impressive burn times. You will have to run it at a higher setting and the burn times will be similar to that of non-cat stoves of a similar size. The BK's are known for great burn times but that is only if you are able to leave it at a low setting. After all, that is the benefit of the cat stove. Long and low. Go bigger.

I currently have the Princess but have a new King sitting in the garage waiting to be installed. My priority is burn times and I have to run the Princess too hard to get the heat I want. Its a lot cheaper to get the right stove the first time.

My wife finds the King ugly. Too bad they don't make a larger version of the Ashford.