New and some questions - <One year later...>

[Gooserider]

I agree with Bokehman's suggestion of getting the liner eventually, but should point out that galvanized is NOT OK for stove chimneys, at least in the USA, it isn't able to take the heat, and for an extra hazard the zinc coating can burn off with lots of toxic fumes...

I'm not certain what it is. In Spanish it's called "chapa" but it looks like galvanized to me. It's got a mottled dull grey appearance and is sold as a cheap alternative to stainless for use as stove pipe.

I have no idea either, though the mottled part does sound like galvanizing. I would say that before using it, I'd want to see some very specific info on exactly what applications it is approved for. "Stove pipe" is a somewhat generic term for the pipe used on just about any sort of combustion appliance, including gas and oil burners as well as stoves. Because the exhaust on a gas or oil appliance is cooler, and does not have some of the corrosive elements found in wood or coal smoke, galvanized IS acceptable (and works well) there, but not on a wood burner....

The other key question is WHERE the pipe will be used - Again talking US codes, you can use stainless pretty much anywhere, as long as you obey the constraints on clearances to combustibles and so on. You can also use the much cheaper black steel (and it's fancier enameled / painted cousins) but ONLY in areas where it can be easily inspected and replaced, as it rusts out fairly rapidly and will need replacing after only a few years of heavy use. (IMHO stainless is a better choice since it pretty much doesn't wear out, so you pay more up front for something that will last as long as the stove...) So while black steel is fine as a connector pipe, it is explicitly prohibited in chimneys, where stainless is required...

Bottom line, just because they call it "stove pipe" it isn't automatically OK to use, you need more research to verify that its OK for that application.

Gooserider

 

[bokehman]

Here's a picture of a cap made from the stuff.

 

[Gooserider]

Hmmm... Hard to tell for certain from the picture, but it does look like galvanizing. I see that style cap at times on vent stacks for gas and oil appliances for sure. It probably would be OK up on the roof for things like caps as the smoke isn't going to be hot enough to melt the zinc coating, though it might not last very well. I'd want to see a double-wall insulated pipe on the stack itself (US "Class A" chimney equivalent) to avoid problems with creosote buildup.

There are a couple of companies that make their class A chimney in a variant that has a stainless interior layer, and galvanized exterior, which the data sheets reccommend for internal use only, but that's a totally different type of application from what RHC needs.

Gooserider

 

[struggle]

From the looks of it did you put silicone on the pipe itself. If you did I am quite sure it has burned off after your first fire. Silicone will not hold up to the temperatures that stove pipe will operate at. Silicone around the block off plate seems to acceptable though. Refactory cement is often a better choice when dealing with any high temps.

 

[cherryredcutie]

@Gooserider: The standard for ss liners seems to be 316 grade steel here in the UK, you can also get 904 grade steel liner.

@Struggle: Yes, I used high temperature silicone which is heat resistant to 300 °C as I didn't know how hot the stove pipe gets. In case it doesn't hold I have some fire cement here I can use. Thanks for the tip though!

 

[cherryredcutie]

Hi guys,

so as Struggle said the silicone burnt off after a few times running the stove so I got most of it off and replaced it with fire cement which was much easier to apply and sealed the pipe nicely .

I also had a look at how houses where built in the 1950's here in England and it looks like we used to have a fireplace upstairs (coz of the second chimney pot) but they put up a brick wall where it was with a vent that is taped over with wallpaper. I am learning more and more each day .

Anyway we're gonna get some coal at the weekend coz it keeps the stove and room warmer for longer, all I have to do at the moment is to burn a little fire in the morning then throw about 12-14 pieces of coal on the embers and I am nice and warm till I go to bed. It's around 12 degrees here at the moment so I dunno how much more I have to heat when it gets colder but we are very pleased with the results so far .

Take care,
Anne

 

[Gooserider]

Hi guys,

so as Struggle said the silicone burnt off after a few times running the stove so I got most of it off and replaced it with fire cement which was much easier to apply and sealed the pipe nicely .

I also had a look at how houses where built in the 1950's here in England and it looks like we used to have a fireplace upstairs (coz of the second chimney pot) but they put up a brick wall where it was with a vent that is taped over with wallpaper. I am learning more and more each day .

This is a possible DANGER signal - though if you have two chimney pots it suggests that you have two seperate flues in the chimney, which makes things a bit safer...

What you need to do is figure out EXACTLY what you have for a chimney system - starting at the roof, how many exits or flues do you have in the chimney (The number of pots may be a good indicator) and where does each one go? (Definition time - A CHIMNEY is a masonry, metal or other non-combustible structure for venting combustion gasses. A FLUE is a passage inside a chimney that the gases flow through - it is quite possible to have several flues in the same chimney.)

US Codes are very emphatic that you should NEVER have multiple devices serviced by a single flue, (with a very limited exception for gas or oil furnaces sitting next to each other) especially not devices on different levels of a structure. Having multiple openings is frowned upon, but if present, any unused openings must be tightly sealed with a non-combustible, gas tight, material. (a vent covered with wallpaper does NOT count, but masonry does...) The hazard is that gasses from one appliance could backflow out any other openings into the living spaces.

If your second floor fireplace has a completely seperate flue all the way from the firebox to the chimneypot, then you have no problem and could even theoretically put it back into service (if your codes permit otherwise, there are also restrictions on stoves or fireplaces in sleeping areas) If it does share any portion of the flue with your first floor fireplace, I'd replace that vent with solid masonry.

(Note I reference US codes cause those are the ones I sort of know, but combustion gasses do not respect international borders....)

Anyway we're gonna get some coal at the weekend coz it keeps the stove and room warmer for longer, all I have to do at the moment is to burn a little fire in the morning then throw about 12-14 pieces of coal on the embers and I am nice and warm till I go to bed. It's around 12 degrees here at the moment so I dunno how much more I have to heat when it gets colder but we are very pleased with the results so far .

Take care,
Anne

I forget from your earlier posts, is your stove rated as a coal burner? Modern stoves in the US are generally rated for one or the other, and burning coal in a woodstove can cause damage, not to mention voiding your warranty... Also if you are burning both fuels you need to be extra careful to clean your chimney regularly. Coal and wood put out slightly different sets of combustion residues, and the combination is particularly corrosive.

In addition, while wood ash can be spread on the lawn or garden as a fertilizer, you should not do this if you are burning any sort of coal, instead the ashes should be put out in the trash and treated as low-level "haz-mat" due to the presence of heavy metals as part of the coal.

Gooserider

 

[bokehman]

It's around 12 degrees here at the moment so I dunno how much more I have to heat when it gets colder

If it is 12 degrees and you are raising it to say 22 that is 10 degrees. When it gets down to freezing or below you will need to raise it 22+ degrees. I'd guess you would need to burn at least 3x the fuel to do that.

 

[cherryredcutie]

Hi guys,

@bokehman: thanks for the estimation, that gave me some idea on what to exspect!

@Gooserider: I am pretty sure that I have 2 seperate flues in one chimney, coz when we had the chimney sweep round the brush only came out the one chimney pot. I also had another look up the chimney when we took the stove out and the flue makes a bent to the left. I also had a look at this construction website and it looks pretty similar to this I think:

If anyone is interested to look at how chimneys are built in England have a look at THIS website, quite interesting.

Our stove is a multi fuel burner, so we can burn coal with it . Thanks for letting me know about how to correctly dispose of the coal!

Speak to you soon!
Anne

 

[bokehman]

Well you'll know this week cos it's going to be below freezing for a while.

As to whether both floors share one flue just count the chimney pots. I've lived in houses there where the flue was shared between fireplaces on different floors (one flue, four floors) but am not sure with a 1950's house. Normally there are four flues in each chimney, two in your house and two in the neighbour's. One flue is for the back room and one for the front. If that is the case the flue is shared between floors. If not there would be eight pots on the top.

 

[Gooserider]

Interesting link Anne - I tend to agree from what it says that you are likely to have seperate flues, which is a good thing... Interestingly enough, they also had a mention of putting a vent in the bottom of an unused flue right at the bottom of the page 7 section on inspecting for dampness - does this look like what you have? - If so, there was also a note about making sure the pot on top of the chimney was properly closed off so as to allow ventilation, but prevent rain / snow entry.

There is also a mention of some sort of "Notice" that is supposed to be posted in the building on the bottom of page 9 - might be worth looking for it, or asking that one be made the next time you have a sweeping done...

Gooserider

 

[cherryredcutie]

Hi again,

yes, the vent we have upstairs looks like the one on the photo, it's a bit higher but I am sure it serves the same purpose. We have to have a look at the chimney pots at some point as we have no caps, sometimes when we get hail a little of it comes down the chimney.

We had our first snow yesterday, it's freezing cold outside at the moment, they say on BBC max 6 degrees Celsius, I got the living romm up to 20C at the moment, I like 22 best :D.

Yeah, I have read about the notice plate as well, I will ask the chimney sweep about it next time he comes round.

Anne

 

[bokehman]

they say on BBC max 6 degrees Celsius

My minimum is 9ºC today, down from the 16ºC that it was most nights in October. Not sure about maximum but with the sunshine today we feel warm enough without a fire.

 

[cherryredcutie]

Found another UK site with plenty of info about wood stoves, chimneys, etc. HIER.

9ºC in Spain? I never thought it would get that cold there, but then it's not Tenerife .

 

[bokehman]

9ºC in Spain? I never thought it would get that cold there, but then it's not Tenerife .

Spain's a big country and about half has continental climate. In those parts it gets much colder than anywhere in the UK. The sun is always warmer though.

 

[Gooserider]

Found another UK site with plenty of info about wood stoves, chimneys, etc. HIER.

I haven't read a lot of it, but just from looking at a couple of articles, and the list of topics, it does appear like a good source of info... They are a dealer, so I'd probably take anything they say on stove selection with a grain of salt, but I would expect any info on code requirements and other general info to be pretty reliable and accurate.

Gooserider