New guy here looking for some direction

[Triggerj]

Thanks for having me here, I find the pool of knowledge and experience a great asset. Before I get too involved I could use a bit of direction. I have been heating the house for the past few years, casually mind you, with a 45 year old Little John stove, full manual of course, and I had become quite adept at tuning the heat output through air intake, flue damper, wood choice, etc...... I recently upgraded, with a bit of urging from the insurance company, to a Shelter wood furnace. I know there a mix of opinions regarding these units, and I am not here to be told I did right, wrong, whichever. This unit with its increased capacity, thermostat control, BLOWER SIZE! is quite an upgrade for me. Problem being, upon initial fire I have found myself relatively lost on how to run the damn thing. NOTHING like what i have become accustomed to. If someone were to be so kind as to drop a few hints of basic fire setup I would be eternally grateful. Things I am looking for are : load size, flue damper position when burning, possible remedies for the short cycle time of the circulation blower. Keep in mind some of the terms you guys use here are rather foreign to me, so laymans terms would be appreciated. Once I get this figured out, you all are invited over for beers in the comfy barn room. Promise.

Just for clarity, here is a brief recap of the Little John experience, maybe help everyone understand why I am a bit out of sorts. Friday midday, fire up stove, 10 minutes, the first of two small blowers kick on for the weekend, 1/2 hour later my propane furnace is done for the weekend. as the afternoon progresses, I begin the switch from some of of the less desirable woods to the good stuff to build up a nice bed of coals for the night. In the meantime giving this stove almost full air in and the flue damper at about 1/2 to hold some heat for the plenum, by bedtime, the house is 80 degrees, i have 4 inches of oak coals in the box and little john is making heat Hell would be jealous of. Adding a couple of bigger hunks of oak, its bed time. In the morning, most times one fan would still be running, house cooled to 65 or so, and enough coals left to start tossing in some of the faster burning stuff to heat the house up again. That little guy worked great, even at -20 F, 80 degree living room, 100 degree basement, happy wife. NOW! thermostat on wall, secondary burn?, blower that lowers the plenum temp instantly, I am a bit out of sorts initially. If it helps any, I cut my own wood, know the species, dry time, etc .... I work industrial maintenance for a living, 30 years, so i am not joe office either. Hit me boys!, and of course, thank you in advance.

 

[Triggerj]

just an afterthought to some questions you may have for me, the blackpipe portion of the stack is about 30 inches, feeding into a double wall insulated stainless stack that extends about 30 or so feet vertically above the roof line on that is a cap? that is shaped much like a spanish conquistadors helmet that rotates into the wind. Whatever you call those things. The old stove did like 6 feet of black pipe into a cavernous brick unlined chimney of old and seemed to have much better draft but i was clearly not only losing my velocity but building creasote i'm assuming that would wash out the cracks in the mortar as black chit when it rained. The only other question that remains involves the fire brich on the top of the fire box. Several head fallen down in transport and i replaced them according to how the old stove was laid out. A call to tech support verified I had the correct number of them up there but he was unsure of their arrangement. Currently the "gap" is directly above the loading door maybe an inch wide the width of the fire box. Sound right?

 

[brenndatomu]

Is this one of the new Shelters...the ones Menards has now?
If you figure out how to run that thing "proper like", you'd be the first, post it up here...I'm sure there are plenty of others that would love to know too!
@Mrpelletburner is probably the most experienced Shelter/FC furnace (PTSD much?! ) operator here...

 

[Triggerj]

This particular came from Menards, yes, new? Not sure. It’s build date is in 2017 so I’m not sure about the “new”. I have only had one fire, the break in fire, since it’s been relatively warm here as of late. As far as updating the forum, you bet, I will figure this out, that much to my dismay at times is what I do. Obsess? Yes. That thing will work. That’s what is ironic, the “internet” rated this unit well, Menards closing it out. Deal I couldn’t refuse. Maybe it was a bounce back purchase since someone beat me to a barely used woodchuck stove and I was mourning? Whatever. Game on! Thanks for the reply!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

What model?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

The only other question that remains involves the fire brick on the top of the fire box. Several head fallen down in transport and i replaced them according to how the old stove was laid out. A call to tech support verified I had the correct number of them up there but he was unsure of their arrangement. Currently the "gap" is directly above the loading door maybe an inch wide the width of the fire box. Sound right?

Correct

 

[Triggerj]

sorrry for the delay guys, trying to get some wood inside ahead of the weather, Mr Pelletburner, it is a sf1000 I hear youre the guy to talk to. I promise not to be a stalker, awaiting my ductwork adapters to see if a bit of backpressure will keep the plenum from cooling too fast. Thanks for the replies

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I am... key is very seasoned wood or if you have less then favorable seasoned wood, you will need to use smaller splits and slowly build up the fire.

If connected up correctly, with seasoned wood and a strong draft, there is zero reason why you should not have success.

Would encourage you to buy the following items as you are going to want to measure your draft and be able to keep your flue temperatures high enough to promote clean burning and a good draft at all times.

Dwyer Series Mark II 25

PID Temperature Controller TA4-RNR

Power Cord for PID

60 Min Timer

K Type Thermocouple Exhaust Probe High Temperature

Fire Extinguisher ;P

 

[Triggerj]

Wow! the list, some of those I am familiar with since just about everything at work uses a temperature controller of some sort. The extinguisher I do have, the garden hose is only 10 feet farther away and hooked u so fire control is not an issue. Where youve lost me so far is the timer. What are we using this for ? the temperature controller is for monitoring I assume? lastly, the manometer and the probe, where are the ideal placements for both? BTW I got my ductwork today and with the long weekend I plan on pumping some heat into the house this time. My wood, the wood should be first rate, unfortunately, is rather bittersweet since I own a slice of virgin oak savanna riddled with oaks in various stages of their life cycles including the dearly departed. Nothing is cut live, nothing being burned is less than 2 years split and some of it is the red heartwood only from said oaks that in the past has burned like iron. Iron? I dunno, burns hot, clean, and a long time. thanks again boys!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Timer is used for when you reload as you are going to want to keep that draft blower going until the flue temps are hot and the load catches.

 

[Triggerj]

Timer is used for when you reload as you are going to want to keep that draft blower going until the flue temps are hot and the load catches.

Got it, I got my duct adapters yesterday, the wrong size and only 1 instead of 2 after 12 days of waiting, ripped Menards a new one and of course ultimately put on hold for 12 more until they right the situation. The only clarification I require at this point is how you’re handing control of the unit from the timer to the thermostat. Or aren’t you? Arbitrarily making heat based on flue temp. Don’t get me wrong, that’s what Little John did, you lit him off, it made heat the temperature of the house be damned. Wow! So much info, thank you, and nothing to base it on since this thing REFUSES to come together. I bet a guy could write a simple cool little program on a place to watch/ control all of those functions simultaneously with nothing more than a low dollar input / output unit

 

[Mrpelletburner]

You wire the thermostat per the manual and the timer, connected to the Mypin is used to to turn on/off the draft blower based on flue temps. It allows you to set and forget, no need to turn up/down the thermostat.

 

[Medic21]

Oh you poor, poor, soul. I ran one of the sf1000 for two years. The only advice I can give you is it’s worth more as scrap than in the house...

flue temps: 600-800 when loading for it to continue to burn when it stops calling for heat.

the front will turn red hot around the door when a new load is put in.

Very dry wood is needed or it will just not burn.

Be very selective cleaning out ashes. They are needed to insulate the coals to have the fire keep burning.

Above all, don’t use it if your not home. This thing is VERY dangerous and can runaway in a heartbeat.

I’m sorry you have to experience this disaster first hand. This is nothing even close to a conventional stove. If you were not told, remove the damper from the flue. The manual calls for one but, the stove will not function with one. There is a great video of the damper being removed by explosion on YouTube lol. HY-C will be of no assistance as they just blame you and your setup for everything.

I was in Menards yesterday and asked. They have dropped the line once their inventory is gone.

Good Luck!

 

[brenndatomu]

this thing REFUSES to come together.

Its a sign from above. Get. Out. Now.

 

[Medic21]

Its a sign from above. Get. Out. Now.

THE. BEST. ADVICE. EVER!!

 

[Triggerj]

Well so far guys none of the apocalyptic scenarios yet. Playing with the unit today, seemed the best that I could manage was a 50/50 run time with the circulation fan, 2 mins on 2 off, ran pretty consistently all day as described, the draft was enough I could hear the chimney sucking air both around the flue damper hole and through the combustion air fan (running) the old stove always did better heat wise (output heat) with the flue damper about 1/2 closed. Maybe allowing better heat absorbsion opposed to sending it up the chimney? Fast forward to this evening, I have 4 inches of coals on a lark I turned the flue damper down to about 75 percent closed, my circulation times have increased to about 12 minutes, the 2 slabs of wood I threw in are totally coal covered, only fire in the box are almost invisible blue flames floating above the mass of newer wood and coals and the box temps are such there is no lingering in front of the open door. Now! The plenum top is such that you can’t put a hand on it more than just a touch, the sides of the enclosure are MAYBE 80 degrees and the front of the unit is smoking hot, mind you not such that it’s red hot I cannot see the discharge from the chimney since it’s dark out so I cannot elaborate on that. Am I missing something? This in the old stove would be a dream situation, the perfect storm albeit a bit spooky with the old brick chimney. Short of finding the perfect balance of air in/ out what do you guys make of this?

 

[Medic21]

Well so far guys none of the apocalyptic scenarios yet. Playing with the unit today, seemed the best that I could manage was a 50/50 run time with the circulation fan, 2 mins on 2 off, ran pretty consistently all day as described, the draft was enough I could hear the chimney sucking air both around the flue damper hole and through the combustion air fan (running) the old stove always did better heat wise (output heat) with the flue damper about 1/2 closed. Maybe allowing better heat absorbsion opposed to sending it up the chimney? Fast forward to this evening, I have 4 inches of coals on a lark I turned the flue damper down to about 75 percent closed, my circulation times have increased to about 12 minutes, the 2 slabs of wood I threw in are totally coal covered, only fire in the box are almost invisible blue flames floating above the mass of newer wood and coals and the box temps are such there is no lingering in front of the open door. Now! The plenum top is such that you can’t put a hand on it more than just a touch, the sides of the enclosure are MAYBE 80 degrees and the front of the unit is smoking hot, mind you not such that it’s red hot I cannot see the discharge from the chimney since it’s dark out so I cannot elaborate on that. Am I missing something? This in the old stove would be a dream situation, the perfect storm albeit a bit spooky with the old brick chimney. Short of finding the perfect balance of air in/ out what do you guys make of this?

If your using a manual glue damper all your doing as taking a secondary burn furnace and choking it down. making creosote to have a chimney fire You CANNOT use a damper, outside of an automatic one and that’s not recommended.

Fire Chief FC1000 / Shelter SF1000 - blows biometric damper door off! Do not install a BD!

Edit: Since the posted video, I have changed my stove setup and flue piping. Still experiencing "puffs", however nowhere as extreme.

www.hearth.com

search this stove here. Many of us have posted the hard lessons learned and what does not work. A damper is the number one no.

 

[Triggerj]

Sorry if it seems as if the proverbial dead horse is being beaten here but I am trying not only to understand and be cautious but understand why some of the issues you guys have been through I am not seeing. Yet. The video posted seemed pretty extreme, does this happen when combustion air is reintroduced? Puff backs. Small versions of what is in the video? I don’t have any hard numbers to offer you yet as mrpelletburner was kind enough to give me a shopping list but is forthcoming. Just a casual observation, the unit in the video had enough black pipe in use, my smoke would be half way up the side of the house by the time that units would have seen the insulated part. Would this make the difference I’m thinking? As I have stated before even as the combustion fan runs, I can hear the chimney sucking air through it so at full burn it’s “charge” seems to be a token gesture at best. This IS with the flue damper partially closed. Keep in mind this unit is pretty new, what I used to see in the old stove in the morning was a black sooty coating on everything that would burn off in (excuse the description) crawly embers across the walls etc.... I am assuming this is from the creosote stage of the fires life? This morning, the insides of the shelter were clean short of discolored stainless shields and a touch of black on the door. The firebrick on the ceiling was so clean it looked unused. I have every intention of letting it burn out after this weekend so I can get a peek at the insides of the chimney and the black pipe this was all brand new when I started so it should be apparent what is going on. Updates later

 

[Medic21]

Sorry if it seems as if the proverbial dead horse is being beaten here but I am trying not only to understand and be cautious but understand why some of the issues you guys have been through I am not seeing. Yet. The video posted seemed pretty extreme, does this happen when combustion air is reintroduced? Puff backs. Small versions of what is in the video? I don’t have any hard numbers to offer you yet as mrpelletburner was kind enough to give me a shopping list but is forthcoming. Just a casual observation, the unit in the video had enough black pipe in use, my smoke would be half way up the side of the house by the time that units would have seen the insulated part. Would this make the difference I’m thinking? As I have stated before even as the combustion fan runs, I can hear the chimney sucking air through it so at full burn it’s “charge” seems to be a token gesture at best. This IS with the flue damper partially closed. Keep in mind this unit is pretty new, what I used to see in the old stove in the morning was a black sooty coating on everything that would burn off in (excuse the description) crawly embers across the walls etc.... I am assuming this is from the creosote stage of the fires life? This morning, the insides of the shelter were clean short of discolored stainless shields and a touch of black on the door. The firebrick on the ceiling was so clean it looked unused. I have every intention of letting it burn out after this weekend so I can get a peek at the insides of the chimney and the black pipe this was all brand new when I started so it should be apparent what is going on. Updates later

That is @Mrpelletburner’s stove. Or his original one.

The puffing comes from having a very hot firebox and a rich mixture. You have not had it idle yet the way im reading. If it never idles it won’t puff. The burn times drop drastically down to 4-6 hours in the scenario. It puffs when the atmosphere is too rich to burn with fuel and it gets enough air eventually, it’s an explosion. The auto damper he had installed blew out. Very dangerous condition.

I would give this stove a 5 star rating if I was rating it to fill the house with smoke. Just give it time. The problems with the stove and the shut design will start to show in a few weeks. I can’t stress this enough, do not leave this unattended. I literally scraped it. I could not in good faith sell it to anyone. I think it’s that dangerous of a stove.

 

[Triggerj]

Got it, we finally soaked enough heat through the house from the basement it did go idle. After I saw it was idle I peeked in the door, pretty uneventful, there was 4 inches of coals and 3 splits? No flames, everything turning to red hots, with the combustion fan off she was quite literally sitting there whistling from the stack vacuuming through every pinhole. Is there such a thing as too much draft? Letting it burn down tonight, peek up her hiney in the morning, curiosity and wariness getting the better of me

 

[Medic21]

Got it, we finally soaked enough heat through the house from the basement it did go idle. After I saw it was idle I peeked in the door, pretty uneventful, there was 4 inches of coals and 3 splits? No flames, everything turning to red hots, with the combustion fan off she was quite literally sitting there whistling from the stack vacuuming through every pinhole. Is there such a thing as too much draft? Letting it burn down tonight, peek up her hiney in the morning, curiosity and wariness getting the better of me

there is a max draft in the manual. It sounds like you’ve exceeded that by quite a bit it it’s whistling through that hole.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

there is a max draft in the manual. It sounds like you’ve exceeded that by quite a bit it it’s whistling through that hole.

Remember HY-C stated that they HAD TO add the max draft spec as it is required.

 

[Medic21]

Remember HY-C stated that they HAD TO add the max draft spec as it is required.

anything they ever told me was pulled out of someone’s ass. You and I were the product testers for a piece of crap stove. I gave up and put the boiler in.

 

[Triggerj]

Well, here’s a brief update, ductwork hooked up, thermostat turned up 2 degrees above the gas furnace which cycled twice until the shelter took charge. 25 degrees and breezy outside, the shelter thermostat is satisfied so only relying on draft from the stack, we’ve gone 2 degrees above it’s thermostat with random cycling of the circulation blower about once an hour I peek in the firebox and it is using wood, not yellow flame, very faint short blue flames and the wood is turning to embers and eventually ash with NO smoke in the firebox itself. Once again, I attribute this to the tremendous draft the new pipe creates. I still cannot provide hard numbers as far as stack temp or manometer readings and yes, it is still whistling at the joints in the black stove pipes and you can hear air being pulled through the combustion blower. So far this unit is meeting all of my expectations and given the general feelings present what am I missing? Textbook so far. The only issue I am seeing is the advertised burn times aren’t going to meet what I’ve read. Maybe a burn time in my book is different in theirs. On average a log an hour will effectively be reduced to coals, meaning I am throwing 3 six inch logs in on the bed of coals and they’re turning into coals in about 3 hours. As long as the subject is being breached, what is a burn classified as? Stacked tight to the firebox ceiling until cold? How are these to be loaded? Tossed in door or sardinelike? This may help me understand some of the problems I keep hearing of

 

[Highbeam]

You can bet the marketing people who decided on what maximum burn time to publish surely understood that a higher number is better. So, they filled the stove with as much fuel as possible, minimum burn rate idle, and the end of this burn was when just a tiny golf ball of coal remained.

That, or they just made a number up.