New harman P61 not heating like I thought it would

[mtnbker343]

Have a new P61 in the basement have been playing with settings and pellets for a few weeks and with temps outside in the 20’s I can’t get even the basement above 70-71 and upstairs above 62? I have tried fans all different ways. I have cut registers in ceiling to upstairs even tried duct fans in registers to try to suck heat up stairs? Im
Stumped

 

[DAKSY]

How many square feet in the basement?
My P61 heats about 1150 sf up to the mid 70s if I let it crank...
Are the walls insulated well, or is the concrete exposed?
My walls are 2x4 insulated with R13 Kraft Faced Fiberglass...
Uninsulated walls will absorb the heat before the air will.
Did you cut the registers near the outside walls?
The outside walls are the coldest walls in your home.
So, they won't allow warm air to RISE. They will allow cold air to DROP.
You need a large CENTRALLY located floor register or you need to leave
the basement door open if that is not on an outside wall.

 

[mtnbker343]

How many square feet in the basement?
My P61 heats about 1150 sf up to the mid 70s if I let it crank...
Are the walls insulated well, or is the concrete exposed?
My walls are 2x4 insulated with R13 Kraft Faced Fiberglass...
Uninsulated walls will absorb the heat before the air will.
Did you cut the registers near the outside walls?
The outside walls are the coldest walls in your home.
So, they won't allow warm air to RISE. They will allow cold air to DROP.
You need a large CENTRALLY located floor register or you need to leave
the basement door open if that is not on an outside wall.

Basement is about 1000SQFT insulated walls. Doors are open to stairway upstairs. Even installed power duct fans in vents to push air upstairs.

 

[P51mustang]

Are your cellar walls insulated on both sides? If just the outside, I would guess the walls are sucking up your heat to some extent.

Aside from that, what settings are you using and what brand of pellet?

 

[bogieb]

I'm unsure why you can't get the basement at a higher temp than that unless your stove temp is set for that or you are taking the temp in the utility room so the heat just isn't getting there thru the door.

2 vents are not going to get the heat to rise as it should. Even if you had forced air, you would need more vents than that. My basement is 650 sq/ft (not heating the under house garage) and main floor is 950 sq/ft. I could not get the correct convection currents going to really heat my main floor. I cut 5 vents in the floor (2 on outside walls and 3 on inside walls), with no door on the stairs and vent fans which still did not produce the results I was looking for. But my basement was in the high 80's (even before I insulated the cinder block walls and put in raised flooring over the concrete floor). Finally gave up and put in a smaller stove upstairs.

Unfortunately in can be a cr*p shoot on if the layout of your house will support whole-house heating even with a stove that will easily heat the combined square footage.

 

[mtnbker343]

Are your cellar walls insulated on both sides? If just the outside, I would guess the walls are sucking up your heat to some extent.

Aside from that, what settings are you using and what brand of pellet?

Walls are wood studded and insulated. I have played with all the settings and set up fans in different door ways. Settings right now are feed is at 4 and have played with room temp maxed or constant maxed

 

[SciGuy]

Have a new P61 in the basement have been playing with settings and pellets for a few weeks and with temps outside in the 20’s I can’t get even the basement above 70-71 and upstairs above 62? I have tried fans all different ways. I have cut registers in ceiling to upstairs even tried duct fans in registers to try to suck heat up stairs? Im
Stumped

We need a bit more data. What's your pellet consumption? That stove ought to be able to combust more than 4 bags per day if it's cranked up to maximum output. You ought to be able to turn the basement into a near sauna if you turn the room temperature way up and feed that stove aggressively. To make lots of heat you need to burn lots of pellets.

Hugh

 

[rickwai]

We need a bit more data. What's your pellet consumption? That stove ought to be able to combust more than 4 bags per day if it's cranked up to maximum output. You ought to be able to turn the basement into a near sauna if you turn the room temperature way up and feed that stove aggressively. To make lots of heat you need to burn lots of pellets.

Hugh

Agreed. My P43 heats my basement. set at 70F and it heats up and idles to keep it there. About 1 bag a day or so. heating about 1200 sq. ft.

 

[mtnbker343]

We need a bit more data. What's your pellet consumption? That stove ought to be able to combust more than 4 bags per day if it's cranked up to maximum output. You ought to be able to turn the basement into a near sauna if you turn the room temperature way up and feed that stove aggressively. To make lots of heat you need to burn lots of pellets.

Hugh

Im adding a bag in the am and and bag sometimes bag and a half in the pm.

 

[Pete Zahria]

I agree with providing more info, about the heat output/fuel input to your stove.
That stove should be able to do the job.
A basement pellet stove will more than likely never heat your home like
a heating system..
I have a cellar dweller... and the extremities are never as warm as the center of my house.
But I'm okay with that..
I have a hood over my stove that directs all of the convection heat upstairs,
and the radiant heat from the stove heats my basement.
Insulated basement walls, poorly insulated 1895 house..
rarely use more than 2 bags/day.

Dan

 

[Nitro-Fish]

2-1/2 bags in 24 hours! That thing should be running you out of the basement. For it to be using pellets like that, you should be toasty (at least downstairs), do you have temp gun so you can see what the stove is running at? As far as getting heat upstairs, if you have central heat/air also, you could do a return in the ceiling a little in front of the stove (you should be able to feel the hotest part of the room @ the ceiling level), and use the fan on feature (instead of fan auto) of the system to circulate the air through existing ductwork provided the ductwork is not installed in the attic (or un-heated) part of the house.
What pellets are you using, what is your flue set-up, was the draft tested/set during install, what is the flue pipe temp? Sounds like maybe too much heat going up the flue instead of staying with the stove.

 

[WarrenZ.]

Harmon P68 thorough cleaning and other info

The above link is to a dude's youtube video where he thoroughly cleans his P68 which he claims is similar to the P61, etc. He shares a lot of info regarding how the stove works. Maybe you'll find some clues here.

 

[ABusWrench]

Several questions haven't been answered. How is your exhaust configured? What brand pellets are you using? You stated it's been several weeks of trying different things, has the stove been cleaned since it was installed? Also sounds like your having problems moving the heat. You need to concentrate on moving the cold air back to the stove. Its easier to move cold air than warm air. Fans don't need to be blowing hard. Just get all the cold air headed back to the stove. The warm air will fill in on its own(usually). I too used 2 1/2 bags in the last 24 hrs in my P61a. But I'm heating a large brick ranch, from the basement. Turning stove back down now as I type this(several times today already) and cutting off fans as it warms up today. Its 73 in my upstairs living room. Has been in the upper teens last several nights. Highest it was run last night/early this morning was feed rate 3.5 running room temp set at 78 with fan speed a tad over half. Burning Somerset hardwood pellets. This is winter #6 with the stove and approximately 37 ton of pellets run thru it. I use 5 different thermometers throughout the house with a IR thermometer to check stove temps. There's definitely a learning curve to these stoves. Lots of variables with every install/house. You need to get the stove running right, the heat will then come! Running 2 1/2 bags a day thru it, you should be making some serious heat! Something is not right.

 

[mtnbker343]

2-1/2 bags in 24 hours! That thing should be running you out of the basement. For it to be using pellets like that, you should be toasty (at least downstairs), do you have temp gun so you can see what the stove is running at? As far as getting heat upstairs, if you have central heat/air also, you could do a return in the ceiling a little in front of the stove (you should be able to feel the hotest part of the room @ the ceiling level), and use the fan on feature (instead of fan auto) of the system to circulate the air through existing ductwork provided the ductwork is not installed in the attic (or un-heated) part of the house.
What pellets are you using, what is your flue set-up, was the draft tested/set during install, what is the flue pipe temp? Sounds like maybe too much heat going up the flue instead of staying with the stove.

No central heating system hot water base board. Added duct fans in the vents that are through the ceiling to try to move more heat. At the moment im using insta pellets have tried a bunch of different ones. The vent pipe comes out of stove 90’s up about a foot and then 90’’s through the wall sticks out past outside wall about 8 inches then the vent cap thing

Several questions haven't been answered. How is your exhaust configured? What brand pellets are you using? You stated it's been several weeks of trying different things, has the stove been cleaned since it was installed? Also sounds like your having problems moving the heat. You need to concentrate on moving the cold air back to the stove. Its easier to move cold air than warm air. Fans don't need to be blowing hard. Just get all the cold air headed back to the stove. The warm air will fill in on its own(usually). I too used 2 1/2 bags in the last 24 hrs in my P61a. But I'm heating a large brick ranch, from the basement. Turning stove back down now as I type this(several times today already) and cutting off fans as it warms up today. Its 73 in my upstairs living room. Has been in the upper teens last several nights. Highest it was run last night/early this morning was feed rate 3.5 running room temp set at 78 with fan speed a tad over half. Burning Somerset hardwood pellets. This is winter #6 with the stove and approximately 37 ton of pellets run thru it. I use 5 different thermometers throughout the house with a IR thermometer to check stove temps. There's definitely a learning curve to these stoves. Lots of variables with every install/house. You need to get the stove running right, the heat will then come! Running 2 1/2 bags a day thru it, you should be making some serious heat! Something is not right.

I have cleaned it several times even rewatched the cleaning video and made sure I wasn’t missing anything. I posted a sketch above of floor layout for basement and 1st floor. Any suggestions on were to put fans and push cold air? What temp is the surface of your stove normally. The exhaustcomes out of stove. 90’s up a foot ten 90’s out through the wall Straight to outside with end cap cover thing. Do you think I need to run it up higher on outside?

 

[P51mustang]

I noticed in the latest photo you posted of the back of your stove that the probe appears wound up and sitting right next to your stove. In fact, at second glance it looks to be an inch or so away from your exhaust pipe. That probe should be a bit away from your stove . I would suggest three maybe four feet at least. Other users put the probe even further away from the stove.

Depending upon what type of setting you're using, (room temp. or stove temp.) the probe is an extremely important part of the cycling up and down of your stove. If your probe is truly that close to the stove and/or exhaust pipe, it may never crank up as it's reading the temp. right around your stove and not out into the room itself.

I have a P61A and I run mine in room temp. with the small toggle set in manual. It runs 24/7 and is only shut down when I do my 3-4 week deep cleaning. It cranks up and down automatically based upon what the probe senses in the room it's sitting. Now, I will occasionally crank up the heat by turning the temp. setting up slightly on the numeric dial and turning up the room/stove temp. dial slightly from Low to High.

My house is an 1800 square ft. ranch with a sh@t ton of windows (albeit double pain argon filled so relatively efficient) and my stove has no problem heating my entire house. And I live in the North Country of upstate, NY with typically brutal winters. Given the size of your house and that it's fairly well insulated, you should have no problem heating your house with a P61.

The basement location does pose a problem as you know and others have stated, but the capacity of the stove is certainly more than ample for your overall size. Keep providing us feedback and we'll eventually help you I suspect. The folks on this site are very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[mtnbker343]

I noticed in the latest photo you posted of the back of your stove that the probe appears wound up and sitting right next to your stove. In fact, at second glance it looks to be an inch or so away from your exhaust pipe. That probe should be a bit away from your stove . I would suggest three maybe four feet at least. Other users put the probe even further away from the stove.

Depending upon what type of setting you're using, (room temp. or stove temp.) the probe is an extremely important part of the cycling up and down of your stove. If your probe is truly that close to the stove and/or exhaust pipe, it may never crank up as it's reading the temp. right around your stove and not out into the room itself.

I have a P61A and I run mine in room temp. with the small toggle set in manual. It runs 24/7 and is only shut down when I do my 3-4 week deep cleaning. It cranks up and down automatically based upon what the probe senses in the room it's sitting. Now, I will occasionally crank up the heat by turning the temp. setting up slightly on the numeric dial and turning up the room/stove temp. dial slightly from Low to High.

My house is an 1800 square ft. ranch with a sh@t ton of windows (albeit double pain argon filled so relatively efficient) and my stove has no problem heating my entire house. And I live in the North Country of upstate, NY with typically brutal winters. Given the size of your house and that it's fairly well insulated, you should have no problem heating your house with a P61.

The basement location does pose a problem as you know and others have stated, but the capacity of the stove is certainly more than ample for your overall size. Keep providing us feedback and we'll eventually help you I suspect. The folks on this site are very knowledgeable and helpful.

Where do you recommend i put it? Up on the wall behind stove?

 

[P51mustang]

Where do you recommend i put it? Up on the wall behind stove?

I would place it out into the room about three feet high up your wall and maybe 3-4 feet away. Obviously you want to leave some slack on the line. It might look a bit weird hanging on the wall, but you can decorate around it somewhat. If it is truly right next to the exhaust, since that area is typically very warm from the exhaust and radiant heat coming off the stove, the probe is possibly telling your stove its reached whatever setting you have the heat controls on. However, it's obviously not that hot out in the room. Do you follow what I'm saying?

 

[ABusWrench]

From the drawings, looks like basement steps come down in utility room? Put a fan somewhere between bottom of steps and doorway to room with pellet stove, blowing toward the stove. At the top of the steps, have a fan pushing the low cold air towards the top of the steps. From your third picture, looks like the room temp sensor is coiled up behind the stove next to the exhaust pipe. I'd uncoil it and put it on the wall, still behind the stove, but away from the exhaust/heat. See if that will help it running in room temp mode. Your exhaust looks fine. More rise in exhaust helps when the power goes out, keeps the smoke going up and out instead of into the room. Have you cleaned the esp probe in the exhaust? I use a paint brush taped to a paint stirring stick and brush it off, instead of pulling it out. I take stove temps on the front, up top of the door, between room fan outlets. Right now, it's on feed rate 2.5, room temp at 77 and fan @ 1/2. It's reading 385 degrees. When up around feed rate 4, room temp set around 78-80 I get close to 600 degrees with the Somersets.

 

[ABusWrench]

In stove temp mode, the stove uses the esp probe AND the room temp probe. In stove temp mode, it only uses the esp probe.

 

[P51mustang]

Also, if your stove is in the "Stove Temp." setting, I believe the probe is not as important to the cycling up and down of your stove. Instead, the stove is using what is called the ESP probe that is located within the exhaust area of the stove...If that gets too dirty or banged around when cleaned or installed, it can cause problems with your stove cycling up and down....Along with other issues.

 

[mtnbker343]

From the drawings, looks like basement steps come down in utility room? Put a fan somewhere between bottom of steps and doorway to room with pellet stove, blowing toward the stove. At the top of the steps, have a fan pushing the low cold air towards the top of the steps. From your third picture, looks like the room temp sensor is coiled up behind the stove next to the exhaust pipe. I'd uncoil it and put it on the wall, still behind the stove, but away from the exhaust/heat. See if that will help it running in room temp mode. Your exhaust looks fine. More rise in exhaust helps when the power goes out, keeps the smoke going up and out instead of into the room. Have you cleaned the esp probe in the exhaust? I use a paint brush taped to a paint stirring stick and brush it off, instead of pulling it out. I take stove temps on the front, up top of the door, between room fan outlets. Right now, it's on feed rate 2.5, room temp at 77 and fan @ 1/2. It's reading 385 degrees. When up around feed rate 4, room temp set around 78-80 I get close to 600 degrees with the Somersets.

Just placed fan at doorway or utility room pushing air towards stove room. You think another fan upstairs pushing down steps?

 

[ABusWrench]

Correct that, room temp uses both probes, stove temp only the esp.

 

[ABusWrench]

Just placed fan at doorway or utility room pushing air towards stove room. You think another fan upstairs pushing down steps?

More so towards the steps. Place a little bit away from steps, coldest place you can find.

 

[MalcolmH]

Off topic but you don't have a cleanout "T", the wall thimble should be of the same make as the vent piping, and 8" from the exterior wall doesn't meet code anywhere

 

[mtnbker343]

I noticed in the latest photo you posted of the back of your stove that the probe appears wound up and sitting right next to your stove. In fact, at second glance it looks to be an inch or so away from your exhaust pipe. That probe should be a bit away from your stove . I would suggest three maybe four feet at least. Other users put the probe even further away from the stove.

Depending upon what type of setting you're using, (room temp. or stove temp.) the probe is an extremely important part of the cycling up and down of your stove. If your probe is truly that close to the stove and/or exhaust pipe, it may never crank up as it's reading the temp. right around your stove and not out into the room itself.

I have a P61A and I run mine in room temp. with the small toggle set in manual. It runs 24/7 and is only shut down when I do my 3-4 week deep cleaning. It cranks up and down automatically based upon what the probe senses in the room it's sitting. Now, I will occasionally crank up the heat by turning the temp. setting up slightly on the numeric dial and turning up the room/stove temp. dial slightly from Low to High.

My house is an 1800 square ft. ranch with a sh@t ton of windows (albeit double pain argon filled so relatively efficient) and my stove has no problem heating my entire house. And I live in the North Country of upstate, NY with typically brutal winters. Given the size of your house and that it's fairly well insulated, you should have no problem heating your house with a P61.

The basement location does pose a problem as you know and others have stated, but the capacity of the stove is certainly more than ample for your overall size. Keep providing us feedback and we'll eventually help you I suspect. The folks on this site are very knowledgeable and helpful.

Do you use fans to move air around? Above I posted some floor plan sketches any input is always appreciated