New here needing stove advice for new home

[Badfish740]

Hi everyone, great site-I've learned a lot so far, but I have a few basic questions that I'm hoping I can find some help with here. My fiancee and I are in the process of finding land in New Jersey in order to construct a new home. We are going to act as our own general contractor and will do a majority of the work ourselves. One thing that both of us have agreed on for the home is that we'd like a woodstove. Our reasons for wanting a stove are twofold (heating and ambiance), but we are only planning on supplementing our heat rather than using the stove as a primary source. It would probably be helpful to talk a little bit about the planned home also so here goes:

1200 SF
Full basement (We were planning on leaving it unfinished initially and converting it to a family room later)
9' ceilings on the first floor/8' ceilings on the second floor
2x6 outer walls with R-19 insulation
R-30 insulation in the second floor ceiling
Brand new windows and doors throughout

Here is a link to the floorplan.

The first debate is where to locate the stove. Our first choice based on ambiance would be the living room, as that will be our main "gathering area" until the basement is finished. However, is this the best location to maximise heating? Would it be better to place the stove in the basement so that the heat rises through the entire house? If it's a negligable difference, we'll place it in the living room for looks. Let's now assume that the stove will be on the first floor in the living room. To me, the logical place to put the stove would be to the left of the front door in the corner. The plans call for 2x10 floor joists, which in that area of the house, will span 9 feet to a laminated beam. The joists are to be placed on 16" centers-should I double them in the area under the hearth? I was planning on constructing the base of 1/2 brick and perhaps cultured stone on the sides. The chimney will have to be a stand alone stainless steel unit because the main chimney for the gas furnace/hot water heater will be located on the opposite wall of the house.

All that being said, what is my best bet for a stove in terms of my heating wants/needs? I'd like to be able to burn overnight in the dead of winter (I don't know if this makes a difference in choice of stoves), and we'd prefer classic black cast iron over something fancy. A window would be nice though. It's my understanding that stoves with catayltic converters usually cost more (and give off more heat), so in the interest of cost and the fact that I will only be expecting supplemental heat from my stove, I would rather go with a non-catalytic unit. So, does anyone have a basic, non-catalytic stove they can recommend that won't break the bank? I don't mind rambling long winded answers either-I love Car Talk!

 

[backpack09]

IMHO with a new, relatively tight house with just over 200 sf to heat you are going to want a pretty small stove,

Englander 12 fp
(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImage/cafcb81a-8f34-4bed-b8cd-9c8a7e7f9c65_100.jpg)

Jotul 602
(broken link removed to http://www.prestontradingpost.com/602_small.jpg)

Morso 1410
(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/NR/rdonlyres/8C726C24-4057-4668-81D7-2DF088AD25A7/0/1410N_thumb.gif)

Morso 1440
(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/NR/rdonlyres/DDD6AABA-1E78-46FF-8940-373581752BF7/9774/1440_egern_CD_nyt_haandtag.jpg)

Vermont Castings Aspen
(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/images/gallery/2007/photo/769.jpg)

I think there are a few other small stoves out there as well. You are going to want an outside air kit with any stove you put into a tight new house.

 

[babalu87]

A stove needs to be in the area you want heated, that means NOT the basement. Heat rises but as it does it also cools. To heat a 1200 foot home from a basement you would need a monster stove like I have and even that may not be enough.

Anything that is capable of heating 1200-1500 sq feet should work fine in Jersey, fairly moderate winter climate there unless you are near the Mountains on the Pennsylvania side.

 

[Highbeam]

That cat stoves are not necessarily more expensive than a non-cat of similar quality. Your goal of having a nice fire to look at generally means that a non-cat is a good choice since the fire is more active. An overnight burn is a big deal. If you really want an overnight burn then you are pretty well locked into a stove with more than 2 CF of firebox volume which puts you into medium stove territory.

 

[Badfish740]

A stove needs to be in the area you want heated, that means NOT the basement. Heat rises but as it does it also cools. To heat a 1200 foot home from a basement you would need a monster stove like I have and even that may not be enough. Anything that is capable of heating 1200-1500 sq feet should work fine in Jersey, fairly moderate winter climate there unless you are near the Mountains on the Pennsylvania side.

Point taken-I was hoping that was going to be the answer anyway since we'd really like the stove to be in the living room. At present we're really not sure where we'll end up (land is tough to find in NJ), but we like Warren County and I'd imagine it does get a bit more chilly at 500-600 ft than it does down here in the flatlands.

That cat stoves are not necessarily more expensive than a non-cat of similar quality. Your goal of having a nice fire to look at generally means that a non-cat is a good choice since the fire is more active. An overnight burn is a big deal. If you really want an overnight burn then you are pretty well locked into a stove with more than 2 CF of firebox volume which puts you into medium stove territory.

Hmmm...if I'm supposed to have a small stove I guess that could be a problem-but what if I had a small stove and I packed it before bed (say 10:00 PM) and just let it burn until it went out in the middle of the night, at which point the furnace would kick on. Is there a reason that this is not a good idea or detrimental to the stove? One last question-for a "small" stove, what would I be looking at as far as price range for just the stove? The installation of the hearth/chimney will of course vary, but I'm concerned with the unit itself.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[backpack09]

In my kneck of the woods a small plate stove will run you 500-600, a small cast will go 800-1k

 

[titan]

The Hearthstone Tribute might be a good fit for your proposed home.It's non-cat,sized accordingly and the soapstone would give you a longer overnight heat-life than a similarily-sized metal stove.

 

[jason1238]

Hi Badfish and welcome!

You might take a look at the stoves Quadrafire makes. I have their 3100 Millenium, which is a no-frills plate steel stove. My wife and I agreed on the simple, clean (aka-plain) look of a stove for our home. The better choice for you may be the 2100 Millenium (same stove--just a bit smaller):

(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/products/stoves/woodStoveDetail.asp?f=2100MILL)

We have a 1700sq ft bi-level that the 3100 heats very well on it's own. Quad makes good stuff, but you don't see them mentioned much here for some reason(???) We have been very happy with ours.

The price of the stove is certainly a concern (at least it was for us), but don't forget to budget for the chimney! They are really proud of that stuff! I have a vertical stack height of 22ft, and the chimney (and double-wall black) cost exactly $50 more than the stove. (It was worth every penny though)

Good luck on your search, and don't be afraid to ask questions here. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum, and we want to see you do it right.

 

[Todd]

My .02, Woodstoves heat best installed centrally in the home. Try to locate the stove in your living room next to your stairwell so some of the heat reaches the upstairs bedrooms. There are so many stoves to choose from, take your time and look at as many as you can. Check out the stove ratings on this site. If your looking for an 8+ hour burn time you need a stove with at least a 2cu ft firebox. Anything smaller and you will be reloading to often.

 

[TresK3]

If Badfish puts the stove near the wall where the stairs are (that is, across from the front entrance), would they get better heat rise up to the second? It would certainly keep the stove closer to the center part of the house and the master bedroom.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

IMHO with a new, relatively tight house with just over 200 sf to heat you are going to want a pretty small stove,

Englander 12 fp
(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImage/cafcb81a-8f34-4bed-b8cd-9c8a7e7f9c65_100.jpg)

Jotul 602
(broken link removed to http://www.prestontradingpost.com/602_small.jpg)

Morso 1410
(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/NR/rdonlyres/8C726C24-4057-4668-81D7-2DF088AD25A7/0/1410N_thumb.gif)

Morso 1440
(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/NR/rdonlyres/DDD6AABA-1E78-46FF-8940-373581752BF7/9774/1440_egern_CD_nyt_haandtag.jpg)

Vermont Castings Aspen
(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/images/gallery/2007/photo/769.jpg)

I think there are a few other small stoves out there as well. You are going to want an outside air kit with any stove you put into a tight new house.

thanks for including us backpack , appreciate that. but i would suggest a 13-nc rather than the 12fp due to it being a new construction and probably tight , the 13-nc can be adapted to outside air, the 12-fp cannot. same firebox size with "expanded burn technology" certainly would be a better choice in this application due to being a new structure. cost is very little more. but a better choice i think here is a link to that unit http://www.englanderstoves.com/13-nc.html

 

[jpl1nh]

If Badfish puts the stove near the wall where the stairs are (that is, across from the front entrance), would they get better heat rise up to the second? It would certainly keep the stove closer to the center part of the house and the master bedroom.

I agree. The most central placement in the home possible. It would be a bit more expense but a nice masonary hearth, wall and chimney would make this unit even more effective at heating and maintaining an even heat in the house. Combine that with using the small soapstone heritage and it could easily end up being the main heat source for the home with little effort and a lot of enjoyment. Fossil fuels are not going to get less expensive. hh:

 

[Badfish740]

Thanks for all the replies-unfortunately I don't know how I could possibly bring a chimney up through the center of the house without a major re-work of the plans due the compact nature of the floorplan. I'll keep researching ways to maximize my heating though!

 

[titan]

Badfish,why couldn't you install a stove next to the stairwell and run a chimney up through the corner of that closet in befroom-1?

 

[Gunner]

thanks for including us backpack , appreciate that. but i would suggest a 13-nc rather than the 12fp due to it being a new construction and probably tight , the 13-nc can be adapted to outside air, the 12-fp cannot. same firebox size with "expanded burn technology" certainly would be a better choice in this application due to being a new structure. cost is very little more. but a better choice i think here is a link to that unit http://www.englanderstoves.com/13-nc.html

Everybody wants to have EBT these days :roll: .............. :lol:

 

[stoveguy2esw]

thanks for including us backpack , appreciate that. but i would suggest a 13-nc rather than the 12fp due to it being a new construction and probably tight , the 13-nc can be adapted to outside air, the 12-fp cannot. same firebox size with "expanded burn technology" certainly would be a better choice in this application due to being a new structure. cost is very little more. but a better choice i think here is a link to that unit http://www.englanderstoves.com/13-nc.html

Everybody wants to have EBT these days :roll: .............. :lol:

if you aint got it , youre missing out

 

[Badfish740]

Badfish,why couldn't you install a stove next to the stairwell and run a chimney up through the corner of that closet in befroom-1?

Possibly, but I would think that it would have to be a masonry chimney due to the amount of heat correct? Now we're talking about having to put a support pillar in the basement as well...I dunno-I need to talk with an architect to see what can be done. As I said, I'm just planning on supplementing my heat with the stove, but it makes sense to get the most bang for my buck, especially since I'll be building new and not retrofitting. I know I asked this before, but I'm still not sure-if I were to go with a small (sub 2 cubic foot) stove, is there any reason that I couldn't just fill the firebox to capacity at bedtime and let the fire burn out during the night, at which point the furnace would take over? Is that dangerous/detrimental for any reason? Basically here would be the scenerio:

I go to bed around 10:30 PM, so at 10:00 I load the firebox. Let's say the fire burns out totally in 5 hours (3:00 AM) and the furnace kicks on and takes over heating the house until I wake up at 6:00 AM. I load the firebox again and it burns until 11:00 AM. My fiancee will be getting home around 3:00 PM (She's a teacher) so she can again load it when she arrives home. I would say that by the time I get home/eat dinner it would be ready for another loading, and, as I said, once again around 10:00 PM. Sooooo...would it be fair to say that provided we stick to this schedule our furnace would run half as much as it normally would in a 24 hour period? That, to me, would be satisfactory.

 

[titan]

You should be able to run insulated, class A chimney up and through I believe, but I'm not a code expert.Based upon your bedtime and awakening times,you should have little trouble finding a stove to provide an all night burn and leave you hot coals in the a.m. for an easy relight.Trust me, starting more than one fire a day from scratch is a pain in the butt, and the less your furnace kicks in,the better.

 

[jason1238]

It does not have to be a full masonry chimney. The clearance to combustibles is only 2" on the Class A stainless chimney. You would lose quite a bit of space in the upstairs closet, but it looks like it would be do-able.

With the newer stoves these days, even if you end up with a stove that has a 1.5 or 2cu ft firebox, you can get some surprisingly long burn times out of them. I load my Quad 3100 (2cu ft) at around midnight, and still have a decent enough bed of coals at 7 or 7:30 in the morning to get it going again pretty easily. It will take some practice, and you have to have some pretty good quality seasoned hardwood (red oak and black locust are what I normally load for overnights), but it can be done.

My furnace will kick on at around 6:00 or so on the really cold nights (below 0), but of course this varies. My insulation is pretty good, but not as good as new construction will be, so IMHO you're on the right path.

The support pillar I think would be overkill, but I'm not a structural engineer. Typical stove weight for that size stove is 400-600lbs I think.

 

[Badfish740]

Thanks guys-I have a much better understanding of the whole thing now-the idea is to have as few relights as possible. I never took that fact into account.

The support pillar I think would be overkill, but I'm not a structural engineer. Typical stove weight for that size stove is 400-600lbs I think.

I was referring to having to do a full masonry chimney. If I can do a stainless chimney through a chase it should be fine. I know it was mentioned that a class A chimney only requires two inch clearance for combustibles, so would it be overkill to line the chase with cement board? How big of a pipe would we be talking? 6"? If so, 2x4 framing plus 2 1/2" clearance on all sides would mean losing an area about 14" square in the closet from floor to ceiling...time to go back to the drawing board!

 

[jason1238]

The ID on the Class A is typically 6" for a woodburner. The OD would be 8". That means if it's framed (assuming square) with 2x4's and drywalled only on the outside, your chase would be around 20" square. You could line the inside of the chase with micore, but in this case I think the benefit would be minimal. You're not going to have draft problems with a setup like that even without the inside of the chase lined. You'll have a vertical run of nearly 20 feet, most of which will be inside the house.

If you are thinking of lining for more fire protection, that would be up to you. I have held my hand on my chimney outside with the stove blazin', and it's warm but not hot. The clearance specified is for the worst case scenario i.e.--a chimney fire. I've never had one of those, so I can't speak to that. I would like to think that the worst case scenario has been tested by the manufacturer of the chimney. IMHO, I would buy Class A with the highest temp rating (I did!) I think the best stuff out there is good to 2100degrees for about 30minutes. I bought the Excel brand, but there are quite a few out there.

 

[KeithO]

Why would the chase have to be framed ? If the chase was a "box" made of 3/4" plywood that was glued and nailed, it would be one of the strongest things in the house ! Code would require an inside dimension of at least 12x12" and 13x13" might be better to allow for a teeny bit of misalignment that might creep into the instalation (who can admit that they are fallible ?..)

The stovepipe stops just below the first floor ceiling, at which point it transitions to Class A (if you have a Menards store nearby take a look at their Canadian made Class A: $57/3ft The average market price is closer to $50/ft !)

A masonry chimney is mega $ and the class A more than likely will draft better for your application (low thermal mass).

 

[Highbeam]

"is there any reason that I couldn’t just fill the firebox to capacity at bedtime and let the fire burn out during the night, at which point the furnace would take over? Is that dangerous/detrimental for any reason?"

None at all. That's exactly my routine. I then restart the cold stove in the morning.

My only somewhat different method is that I don't stuff the box full before going to bed but try and get a good bed of coals and a decent load of new wood fully going about an hour before I go to bed and then close the draft nearly shut and leave it alone until morning. This is mostly due to my softwood supply which tends to burst into flames rather than slowly burn. Also past experience with runaway stoves keeps me from stuffing the box full.

One of the reasons I bought the soapstone stove was for these overnight burns and that even after the fire has consumed all of the wood, the stove keeps making heat for several hours. This effectively extends the productive burn time of a smaller stove.

In the warmer fall times I light a fire in the morning and the wife (works from home) keeps it going until the house temp is mid 70s and then lets it die. I then return from work and light a night fire. Two lights per day but in the winter will be one light per day. 9 sticks of kindling, one cookie of wax log firestarter and some smallish splits and I have a restart. It takes about 5 minutes so no big deal but it would be better to only do it once per day.

There is no reason to build a masonry chimney. I propose that a manufactured class A chimney is superior in most every way including cost, and floor area consumed. I tore down a masonry chimney/fireplace to make way for the fresstanding stove and don't regret it a bit.

 

[TresK3]

Highbeam-

Could you post a picture? TIA

 

[Highbeam]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/9004/

There's a bunch of pitcures of the installation here.