New here - wondering if insert is a smart decision

[jpcjguy]

Hi,

New here and learning alot! Moved into a new (to us) house - built in 1993 on 2 acres. Mostly grass but had to take a bunch of trees down. We really enjoyed having fires and I know it is not efficient. We live in Richmond, VA and it does not get that cold here and I am all electric for heating and cooling.
I have 3 little ones that love the look of the fire so big glass is a must. Here is a pic of the current fireplace:

Here are the dimensions:
37.5" wide at the front
27.5" wide at back
29" tall
22" deep

flu:
26.5" long
6" wide
Pic of flu:

The house is 3000 square feet and the first floor is open concept to a degree. Here is a pic of the family room/kitchen:

I went to the local Fireplace/Stove store and was getting prices of 4-5K for a unit (Jotul I think) and 750 for a liner and 750 installation. WOW!! How long before I make that up in savings?!?!?!
Should I just suck it up and build my fires and deal with some inefficiency? We have fires twice a week or so in fall winter (would have more if I dropped this coin!). I have about 4 cords of wood currently, a 25 ton splitter and a large trailer - 10K 18ft. So getting free wood and splitting it is just my time. Nobody hordes wood here.

Thoughts? Thanks!
Joe

 

[bholler]

$4 to 5 k for an insert without install or liner is pretty high you should be able to pretty easily get the whole package installed for that price with many stoves.

 

[Hogwildz]

What you're referring to as the flue, is actually the damper. What size is the actual flue? If there is room, you may want to insulate the liner. Have them install a block off plate where the existing damper is(that will be removed) around the liner where is passes through the old damper area.

 

[mass_burner]

$4 to 5 k for an insert without install or liner is pretty high you should be able to pretty easily get the whole package installed for that price with many stoves.

I agree, 4500 total on the topside. With an open concept, heat will move around easier, and the stairs appear pretty close to the stove, another positive.

 

[Jags]

Even a mid sized stove would do wonders for that open area.

Keep in mind - you are asking a bunch of firebugs if you should have a wood burning appliance. You already know the answer we are gonna give.

 

[NJ_Burner08002]

I have a small insert and it heats well over 1000sq feet. I paid 900.00 for the insert and 400.00 for the liner and 500.00 for installation. Just my 2cents.

 

[NJ_Burner08002]

Also having that ceiling fan right there is great. That would distribute the heat easily.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for the correction on flu/damper - brain fart and Thanks for all the responses!
So the next question would be what models would be contenders? Based on my size of opening and need for lots of glass?

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

You mention it does not get very cold where you are, so you might not be a 24/7 burner like most of us. In that case, try to get a good used freestanding stove that fits the fireplace. Get the chimney cleaned and install a liner (or have it done if you not comfortable doing it your self). A block off is required and can be done by anyone. On this forum are plenty of plans posted, just type in "block off plate" in the search box. With all this you can save yourself 40-50%.

 

[kennyp2339]

A nice Englander NC-30 with insulated liner would look awesome in that spot

 

[begreen]

For an insert, go large - 3 cu ft. Regency, Osburn, Pacific Energy make good large units that heat well. For the good overall performance, try to avoid totally flush inserts, especially if you have winter power outages. They require the blower running for best heating. Or consider a ~3 cu ft freestanding stove on the hearth. If you like this option is will either need to be short enough to slip below the lintel and then top vent into the chimney liner. Or if rear-vented, the flue collar will need to be below 30".

 

[JA600L]

That looks like a job for a rear vented Woodstock Ideal Steel Hybrid freestanding unit. The base model of this stove is just under $2000. It has a 3.2 cf firebox and a large glass door. It offers the long burn of a catalytic stove with the awesome fireshow of secondary air. There are other options too. This is just a great unit from the "more bang for your buck" perspective.

 

[prezes13]

I am heating my house with a flushed inset it gets the job done but if I could do it all over again I think I would rather go with a freestanding stove. I thing that progress hybrid from woodstock would look awesome on your hearth. I put the insert and a liner by myself with a help of three friends. Total cost was $3500.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for the recommendations, but the free standing stove is not an option. I could not sell the significant other. (We don't live in a cabin in the woods - can't argue).

 

[prezes13]

I hear you. I am trying to talk my wife into a princess insert but I cannot even get that. There is a lot of beautifull inserts out there. Lopi and Avalon make really nice inserts most of them are flushed.

 

[Hogwildz]

Might be a good place for a Princess

 

[bunfoolio]

I would bring a pictures of the fireplace and room to a couple different shops and get multiple opinions. It is important to get the right solution for you. Jotul makes great products but that does seem pricey. Maybe you just need to negotiate a better price. I would consider a insert or a small freestanding stove for that location. Also if it were me I would avoid anything that requires electricity so that you can have heat in case of a power outage.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[bholler]

Also if it were me I would avoid anything that requires electricity so that you can have heat in case of a power outage.

No wood stoves here require electricity. Many inserts work better with a blower but they all will work without

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

No wood stoves here require electricity. Many inserts work better with a blower but they all will work without

If most major utilities of your household (heating and cooling) depend on electricity, first thing to buy is a generator.

 

[Dix]

Insert with extended front, or a free standing stove (noted stove is not a cool idea, at the moment, but it might grow on her, if not, sell her anyways )

Get cranking on that firewood supply, you are going to need it, and be glad you have it!

Welcome to the forums !

 

[Grisu]

Unless their prices really went up in the last years I doubt the quoted insert was a Jotul. Could have been a Lopi Large Flush Hybrid; that runs in that price range especially with its options.

If you want an insert that can potentially heat the whole house you should look at a large one with a firebox size of ~3 cu ft. Some options: Pacific Energy Summit, Quadrafire 5100i, Regency i3100, Osburn 2400, Lopi/Avalon/FireplaceXtraordinaire Large Flush Hybrid (same insert with different outside looks), and Lopi Freedom. Kuma Sequoia or Buck 91 if your flue can accommodate an 8" liner. BlazeKing Princess for a catalytic insert with better regulation of the heat output and longer burn times during the warmer days.

For a supplemental heater a larger mid-size insert with a firebox ~2.5 cu ft may be sufficient. The Hearthstone Clydesdale is a really good-looking insert with a large window but also quite pricey. The Enviro 1700 series is well-liked here. For a modern look: the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 and Osburn Matrix would be good options in that size.

Please be aware that a modern insert will require dry wood with a internal moisture content of less than 20%. That requires splitting and stacking the wood for at least 1 year; for dense hardwoods like oak and hickory 2 to 3 are necessary.

Take the advice of Hogwildz to get a block-off plate seriously. That will help a lot with heat retention. Here is a link: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
You could also think about insulating around the insert since you should have some room left: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

 

[Newwave]

About five years ago I had a Jotul Kennebeck insert installed and never looked back. Best thing I ever did to keep a chilly sunken family room warm and toasty.

Recommend you shop around for a quality dealer with the right credentials, certifications,etc. You will likely be depending on the dealer for service, parts if needed, etc. recommend Angie's List to start.

As others said, get your wood supply and storage situation squared away as quick as you can. It's like money in the bank and you never have to worry about keeping your family warm in the winter if the power goes off.

$4500 should be at the tippy top of the price range for the entire job, stove, installation and all parts. Make sure you have an insulated stainless steel flue liner going up through the chimney. Saves hassle in the future and is easy to clean.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[JA600L]

What is more important to you, the clean looks of an insert or the extra heating power of a freestanding stove ?

I understand that there is a certain look you are going for, but are you going to make this a whole house heater? 3000sqft is a lot. What are your coldest temps?

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the information/suggestions/etc. To answer a few of the questions - this would be a supplemental heat at best. There could be a week or two when I don't use it because we are so busy. I enjoy a nice fire and my kids do also but the reality is I don't see keeping a fire going 24/7 during the winter. Also, Richmond, VA average lows in Dec and Jan are 31 and 28 degrees respectively. Not like we are freezing to death (but figures this last winter was considerably colder). I started looking into the insert option because I figured if I am going to make a fire, might as well have it be useful instead of costing me money (especially at night with the damper open all night as the fire goes out). And yes, I do have a generator for when we lose power, which has happened once in the last year for 4-5 hours.
How hard is installation of one of these? I usually do most of my own work around the house - electrical, plumbing, etc. and I have a nice Millermatic 252 mig for when I work on my jeeps - building axles, bumpers, and such. Not afraid of a little work..... The only part that is iffy is being on the top of a 40ft ladder pushing/pulling the liner down.

 

[begreen]

Get a large insert and pick one that she likes. Get some kiln dried wood for this heating season or buy seasoned ash wood. Good hardwood like oak and hickory need a couple years to season so that would be good to purchase for the 2016-2017 season.