New Home, Time for a insert?

[Cold1313]

I originally posted in the wood fireplace section and they have guided me over to here. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/first-home-fireplace-advice-needed.118782/#post-1589941

In a nutshell, my home has an open fireplace and therefore doesn't provide much heat. I'd like to look into a pellet insert at some point, but was pretty shocked by the price of these. I don't plan to use this very often (not primary heating at least) so I'm having a hard time justifying dropping several thousand dollars on a unit.

They recommended that I post over here and see what you guys thought or would suggest?

 

[john193]

I was in a similar situation as you. We had an old fireplace that we stuck a pellet insert in. From your original post, it sounds like the cost is a big deterrent for you, and pellet stoves are not generally cheap. Even a cheaper unit will run you 2K to 3K, after install and liner. Have you looked on craigslist?

 

[Cold1313]

I was in a similar situation as you. We had an old fireplace that we stuck a pellet insert in. From your original post, it sounds like the cost is a big deterrent for you, and pellet stoves are not generally cheap. Even a cheaper unit will run you 2K to 3K, after install and liner. Have you looked on craigslist?

I haven't checked Craigslist yet, I wasn't sure if this was something that was "safe" to buy used. You know, some things are just better to be bought new.

I was concerned about the depth as well. The sides angle back on the fire place, which I think is common. The back wall is flat but then angles towards the front of the fireplace to the damper. That is the part that I'm worried about, since it looks like all of the pellet stoves exit out the back? By time you add a T-fitting, etc, I think it would be a tight fit? I can't remember the measurements off the top of my head but I was concerned originally. It looks as if guys are using a flexible pipe to get to the flue?

 

[hockeypuck]

Brother Bart was right in the other forum.. at this point dry wood will be a big issue now and moving forward for the next season. I have both, a pellet burner and wood stove. Run 3 chord through the stove and 1.5 tons through the pellet burner. They both have their advantages. If you do not have a spouse at home to keep the stove burning or do not have your own wood supply.. pellets are for you. From my experience, the price you pay or convenience of the pellet fuel is... cleaning. You have to clean a pellet stove once a week or every other. This may be a 10 minute or 25 minute process. You can stack a ton of pellets in 15 minutes... a chord of wood will take much longer than that. Wood you have to plan 2 years ahead. Pellets.. get it done by august unless you are pig... ahem. I like the fact that you can set a pellet stove by a thermostat. Turn it down at night.. pump it up 1 hour before you get up. Same for when you get home. Any good stove is an expense. Payback (ROI) should be secondary to comfort. You would never keep you room at 75 with oil or propane (gas is a different story). It is very easy to do so with a wood stove (almost impossible not to) and less expensive with a pellet stove.

With a geothermal system.. hopefully you have a good installer who is local. Lots of moving parts and it does use more electricity than fossil fuel heaters. I would definitely put in a second source of heat that can keep your place warm when the geo pumps fail. Because it is not your main source of heat, keeping wood around is much more difficult and a ton of pellets.

 

[sante fe]

I have had both also. but now have a pellet insert. When I had the wood insert the heat was awesome but cutting , splitting and stacking ,hauling was like a part time job or hobby. Plus the wife didn't like the bugs/dirt and stuff that comes with the wood. When I was burning wood I had a pickup truck, stil saw, Hydraulic splitter, maul ,wedges, tarps, With the pellet insert dump a bag of pellets in and set it and forget it. But for some reason sometimes I do miss the wood.

 

[Cold1313]

Pellet will be the best option for me. I'll keep my eye on Craigslist, I'm assuming my best bet is to post it on here for you guys to review and tell me what to look for etc?

 

[DBCOOPER]

You will be extremely limited looking on Craig's list for a used insert and you don't know what fits. Inserts are more difficult to maintain because of access. Consider a freestanding unit that you exhaust thru the fireplace flue.

 

[P38X2]

If you have the room, I'd consider a freestanding unit as well. Much greater selection, both new and used.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I don't think you ever said what your primary heat source is, did you? That definitely would factor into everything. Like DB said, if you have room seriously consider installing a free standing unit. The exhaust system is much cheaper to send it right out an outside wall rather than up the chimney. I say this having two inserts myself! hahaha. Also with the fireplace and a freestander you would still have the option of using the fireplace in a pinch.
As I often posit, living in Ohio, you probably have a source for coal and there are a LOT of very beautiful, efficient state of the art coal burners out there now. No more of the 'grand dad's basement monsters'. My brother in law told me today that he paid $170 a ton for rice coal for his Keystoker in NE Pa. that puts out 90,000 btu's. You won't find any pellet stove that comes close to that. AND coal has WAY MORE btu's per ton. Just saying.

 

[hockeypuck]

I agree..mine is free standing in a hearth. Easy to clean is key.

 

[Cold1313]

I have a cheapo free standing unit from TSC that I use in the barn when I need to work out there. I have considered just using the fireplace as a vent for a free standing unit. I just think that it would look a little funny and would be a waste of a good looking fireplace. Unfortunately the fireplace is in more or less, a den, away from the bedrooms. It would heat up the den, kitchen, living room, etc pretty well. I am kicking the idea of putting one in the basement and venting it to the second chimney. (I believe I have 2, separate flues). Let the heat come up through the floor. The basement is wide open and is the entire size of the house.


My primary heat now is forced air with propane. Temps have been up and down so I haven’t figured how much propane I’m using yet. I have a programmable thermostat plus I keep the house pretty cold. I have a brick house and would rather not punch through the wall for a vent. No access to coal where I’m at, that would probably the Eastern, South-Eastern section of the state maybe. I’m right along the lake (North-Central).

 

[mithesaint]

Look at AMFM energy. You could get a Englander insert for $1350. Not sure what cost of install or venting would be, but it's a more economical option, plus you have the customer support of Englander, which is second to none.

 

[Cold1313]

I could handle the install myself, so I don't see that as a major hurtle. $1350 is pretty cheap! (Compared to the $3k-4k I was seeing before)

 

[tjnamtiw]

Many people who visit here have bought the refurbished AMFM stoves and have been very satisfied. A 2200 sq ft unit for $999??? That's a heck of a deal!
With propane, you definitely could save money with a pellet stove! I speak from experience with that one!

 

[Cold1313]

I found this on Craigslist.... what do you think?
(broken link removed to http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ppd/4171440162.html)

They also said "Still have one Fahrenheit E 50 furnace new, and one E 50 used"

 

[mrjohneel]

If you're not using pellets for primary heat then I'd consider leaving the fireplace as is. I like my pellet stove inset and it has saved me thousands in oil costs over the few years I've had it. But I miss my fireplace and burning a wood fire. So if you're just going to use it part time, get one of those balloon things to prevent your fireplace from losing heat when you're not using it, and enjoy a crackling fire. My 2 cents.

 

[mithesaint]

I found this on Craigslist.... what do you think?
(broken link removed to http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ppd/4171440162.html)

They also said "Still have one Fahrenheit E 50 furnace new, and one E 50 used"

Can't help you with the Magnum insert, don't know anything about those.

The Fahrenheit pellet furnace is supposed to be a pretty good unit. There are several members and former members that had the Fahrenheit and were pretty happy with the unit. I actually considered purchasing one of those units, but changed my mind after I called the company. It's only rated at 50K BTU, IIRC. Many have claimed it puts out more heat than that, but I'm afraid it would not be enough for my house. I'm heating a 2400 sq ft colonial, and have issues with air leakage and high winds. That, and there are pretty strict limitations on the venting, and I just couldn't find a good install location in my house.

Might be worth calling Fahrenheit to discuss installation options. I wanted a furnace, but it just wouldn't work for me.

 

[Cold1313]

What is the "balloon thing" to block off the fireplace? My damper is gone so here is just a piece of insulation in there

 

[mrjohneel]

The balloon thing is a heavy piece of inflatable rubber that you place where the damper is and then inflate with a hand pump or some other way. It blocks off the area so heat in your room doesn't vanish up the chimney. The link shown one, but the ones I've seen are sturdier.
http://www.amazon.com/Chimney-Balloon-Fireplace-Damper-Stopper/dp/B000ILEIFY

 

[Cold1313]

I would think the fiberglass insulation that I have shoved up in there would work better, no?

 

[tjnamtiw]

I would think the fiberglass insulation that I have shoved up in there would work better, no?

As long as you are totally sealed off at the top of the chimney, you should be fine.

 

[Cold1313]

The chimney is open to the air on the top, outside, but there is the rain/weather/bird guard on it. I just have insulation up where the damper is. Pretty tight fit

 

[mithesaint]

Negative. The fiberglass will still allow air to pass through it. You want something to prevent air movement, something impermeable. The fiberglass will slow air down, but not stop it.

 

[Cold1313]

Hurm. The balloon in the amazon link looked pretty "thin". The metal framework from my missing damper could pop that balloon I think.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Negative. The fiberglass will still allow air to pass through it. You want something to prevent air movement, something impermeable. The fiberglass will slow air down, but not stop it.

I second that one. If you aren't going to seal it at the top, then you need a solid barrier down below. BUT you would do best to run flexible pipe from your insert all the way up your chimney and terminate it up there through a galvanized sheet of steel that is sealed to the top of the chimney.