New House Plan - don't want insert - how to position stove?

[Pertzbro]

I've been day dreaming about a new house and looking at plans. This is 5-7 years down the road but like to plan items out and I'm having a hard time getting a free standing stove to work. Most plans have gas stoves that are flat with the wall. I like corner hearths but wont work as it will be on a lake and windows will be across the back side.

How would you get a freestanding stove on this wall. Preferably a flat screen over it with a noncombustible mantel between the two.

I'm thinking Alcove would be the best, correct?

 

[Ashful]

I’d ditch the idea of the flatscreen over the stove, and re-think the whole plan. As the owner of many large TV’s mounted at different heights all throughout the house, I would not want my primary living room TV more than 30 inches off the floor. That eliminates the possibility of putting it over a stove, altogether.

What’s behind the camera man? That might be the better place for a stove, on a central interior wall, not up against an exterior wall in the corner of the house.

 

[peakbagger]

Lot to be said for ditching the stove and considering a Pretty Good House or PassivHaus. The heating load for these homes is so low that woodstoves are not needed. The usual approach is a couple of minisplits for heating and cooling..

 

[weatherguy]

Lot to be said for ditching the stove and considering a Pretty Good House or PassivHaus. The heating load for these homes is so low that woodstoves are not needed. The usual approach is a couple of minisplits for heating and cooling..

I saw one today that was 2000sf with solar panels on a metal roof. Two mini splits for heating/cooling and they have a credit with the electric company living there two years. Of course then we wouldn't have an excuse to play with our chainsaws.

 

[Ashful]

Lot to be said for ditching the stove and considering a Pretty Good House or PassivHaus. The heating load for these homes is so low that woodstoves are not needed. The usual approach is a couple of minisplits for heating and cooling..

BOOooo-r-r-ring!

 

[Hogwildz]

Go with an open floor plan, and set the stove centered in the house. That's what I would do anyway.
Don't forget ceiling fans.

 

[Rearscreen]

Put radiant hydronic radiant floor heating in and you can forget about ceiling fans.

 

[Ashful]

Lot to be said for ditching the stove... woodstoves are not needed.

Put radiant hydronic radiant floor heating in and you can forget about ceiling fans.

I’m sorry, I must have wondered into the wrong room. Can someone please direct me toward HEARTH.com?

 

[begreen]

If the goal is whole house heating, then if at all possible, plan on the stovepipe going straight up and out the roof. That is going to work the best. Hogwildz is right, try to place the stove centrally in the house for the best heat. You won't be locating a tv with vertical stove pipe in front of it.

OK, that said, if the stove is more for ambiance, then it may not be in the best location for whole house heating, but right for the owner's needs. We often see stoves or fireplaces these days at the outside end of a great room or family room. Not the best for heating purposes, but that's the visual that the owner wants. In that case the stove could be rear vented. Not ideal, and the mantel should be non-combustible and deep enough to shield the TV. FWIW, I agree with Ashful, a tv placed high above the mantel may be a popular look, but it's an invitation for neck cramps.

In either case it would help to see a rough plan of what is proposed. The stove size and location will also depend on the heat loss of the house.

 

[Ludlow]

I hate watching a TV when the center of the screen is drastically higher than my eye level when sitting. Very uncomfortable. The bottom edge of my 55" is 18" off the floor.

 

[Rickb]

The bottom of my tv in my downstairs living room/stove room/mancave is 39 inches but all the chairs in the room are recliners so its designed to be at the right height and angle if your laid back a bit. As well as the chairs are all in a arc around it at a 9.5 foot distance.

Just food for thought.

 

[Pertzbro]

Here is the plan, will likely make changes, but not much with the great room/kitchen orientation/layout. It is 10 foot ceilings but the great room is lofted. I definitely want wood, preferably freestanding stove. If push comes to shove i will just make an insert work. Im seriously thinking of moving the master wing from the second level down to the first, I dont need a gym and sauna taking up sq.ft.

Currently my 65incher is at least 50+ inches off the floor. It is a neck hurter until you recline. It's the best I can do with the layout i have in my older home now. If i could push the couch back another foot or two it wouldn't be much of an issue.

I've already summized i'll have to use one of the concrete mantels that magrahearth makes.

 

[Pertzbro]

Actually, looking at Alcove requirements for the large stoves that i need, there is no way I'm putting a TV on the wall 8 feet up. Only option is to do an insert, or put the stove in a corner and the tv on the wall. I dont understand how you can get close tolerances on a insert but not on an alcove, if using the same non-combustibles for alcove.

Kuma also confuses you by showing this picture but their alcove requirements are 90inches (to include height of stove) That's not 90inches.

 

[begreen]

84" vertical clearance in an alcove is common, but not all stoves have this requirement. Take a look at the BK Ashford. In the Kuma brochure picture that is ok as long as the top of the alcove is completely non-combustible. The mantle clearance however is perhaps dubious.

You might also want to consider a high quality EPA Zero Clearance fireplace. There are some good heaters out there. Take a look at this install for example.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-pe-fp30-with-craftsman-surround.162781/

 

[Pertzbro]

You might also want to consider a high quality EPA Zero Clearance fireplace. There are some good heaters out there. Take a look at this install for example.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-pe-fp30-with-craftsman-surround.162781/

How's the fan noise? Main concern with getting away from an insert or zero clearance is fan noise. I have my Lopi Cape Cod and while it does heat, I'd love to have more radiant heat than convection with no fan noise. Inserts and Zero clearance are mostly convection outside of the radiant heat from the glass. Zero Clearance are also double the price of even the most expensive stoves.

 

[bholler]

How's the fan noise? Main concern with getting away from an insert or zero clearance is fan noise. I have my Lopi Cape Cod and while it does heat, I'd love to have more radiant heat than convection with no fan noise. Inserts and Zero clearance are mostly convection outside of the radiant heat from the glass. Zero Clearance are also double the price of even the most expensive stoves.

If you put a stove in an alcove you will want a fan. And you really wouldnt want to do an insert for new construction. It would mean building a fully functioning fireplace just to put and insert and liner in it. It would be a massive waste of money.

 

[bholler]

I also agree with the others i would never want my tv over my stove or fp.

 

[Pertzbro]

I've narrowed it down to moving the stove to a corner hearth, or doing an alcove with the stove to the side of it. It's hard without the actual blueprints to figure the layout. Using these online blueprints I'm just guessing on the space I have to play with.

 

[jotul8e2]

I'm having trouble matching up the photo with the floor plan, unless one is a reversed image. If I see what I think I see, I have no trouble deleting the gas fireplace and all that imitation stonework and installing a stove in its place, leaving the media center as is. Or, if you prefer, just reverse the location of the media center and the stove. As noted, go straight up through the roof with the exposed flue. Some people paint their flue to match the stove.

If you want to use wood as a primary heat source you can incorporate some helpful design elements. Insulate, insulate, insulate. The installed cost of extra insulation in new construction is borderline trivial. Think six, or even eight inch walls. If you must have that high ceiling (I'm not a fan - It is a lot of useless cubic feet that must be heated/cooled. And somebody has to knock down the cobwebs) then incorporate ducted air circulation into the design. Or at least ceiling fans. Use 36" or wider doorways everywhere. Make the door/passageway openings as tall as possible. With all the doors open you can get natural circulation through the guest bedroom, the bathroom, and on around the gym if the doorways are wide enough.

That glass wall is going to feel cold unless you have serious insulating window treatments. I had the luxury of building my house myself and chose fewer and smaller windows than is the fashion - and not without receiving criticism. Looking back, the one thing I would do different is to make the windows smaller!

 

[Hogwildz]

Skip the fireplace and put a stove in front of where the fireplace would be, or put a fairly wide alcove in place of the fireplace. The put the TV where the media area is. Then you can watch to tv or the stove. Watching a stove is better than tv for me at times. A nice ceiling fan hung at proper height in the great room, and you're all set. That is what I would do anyway. Each has their own preference. If you do an alcove that is not super tight around the stove, I don't see a need for a fan, but I would still get one just in case you want to push more heated air around. A ceiling fan will move heated air real nice. Look into ceiling fans that have remote reverse feature. Getting up there to reverse flow each season would kinda suck.

 

[Pertzbro]

I'm having trouble matching up the photo with the floor plan, unless one is a reversed image. If I see what I think I see, I have no trouble deleting the gas fireplace and all that imitation stonework and installing a stove in its place, leaving the media center as is. Or, if you prefer, just reverse the location of the media center and the stove. As noted, go straight up through the roof with the exposed flue. Some people paint their flue to match the stove.

If you want to use wood as a primary heat source you can incorporate some helpful design elements. Insulate, insulate, insulate. The installed cost of extra insulation in new construction is borderline trivial. Think six, or even eight inch walls. If you must have that high ceiling (I'm not a fan - It is a lot of useless cubic feet that must be heated/cooled. And somebody has to knock down the cobwebs) then incorporate ducted air circulation into the design. Or at least ceiling fans. Use 36" or wider doorways everywhere. Make the door/passageway openings as tall as possible. With all the doors open you can get natural circulation through the guest bedroom, the bathroom, and on around the gym if the doorways are wide enough.

That glass wall is going to feel cold unless you have serious insulating window treatments. I had the luxury of building my house myself and chose fewer and smaller windows than is the fashion - and not without receiving criticism. Looking back, the one thing I would do different is to make the windows smaller!

Here is the full plan.

https://www.houseplans.com/plan/410...-bathroom-3-garage-contemporary-prairie-39549

Obviously finishing and final design are all changeable and the pictures are of a finished home with small adjustments and top end finishes, looks like they flipped the FP and TV area in the great room. Home will be on a lake, so I agree with the vaulted ceilings and windows, it just makes sense when the focal point of the home is the backyard and lake. It's will be our year round full time home with kids. Basically my only home between when we build and retirement. Lake/back windows face east. I will have R60 in the roof for sure, we will see how much we can do on the walls. Basement/foundation will be ICF. I'd love to heat primarily with wood, but due to the size and design of the home, it likely will just be supplemental and ambiance. I've thought about going the wood furnace route w/ it tied into the duck work but after reading countless threads it sounds like more of a hassle than anything. I would rather have the tried and true standalone stove with/radiant and convective heating in the main area (living and kitchen).

I would think you could get away with lower alcove heights if you insulate,use metal framing and concrete board.

 

[begreen]

You are getting good advice. I am with jotul8e on the vaulted ceilings. There is little gained by the cathedral ceiling other than a big pita for cobwebs, bulb changing, heat pocketing, etc.. For glass area there are some exceptional window glazing if you can afford it. My BIL built his greenhouse with custom glass panes at R=9.0. It's expensive, but a long term investment in energy savings that will pay off. They really make a difference. Pick out a contractor that pays attention to details. Scrupulous attention to sealing and proper construction (tight miters and corners) makes a difference.

For alcove design did you look at the BK Ashford?
Min. Alcove minimum width 51”, maximum depth 48”, minimum height above stove top 37”.

 

[Rickb]

You are getting good advice. I am with jotul8e on the vaulted ceilings. There is little gained by the cathedral ceiling other than a big pita for cobwebs, bulb changing, heat pocketing, etc.. For glass area there are some exceptional window glazing if you can afford it. My BIL built his greenhouse with custom glass panes at R=9.0. It's expensive, but a long term investment in energy savings that will pay off. They really make a difference. Pick out a contractor that pays attention to details. Scrupulous attention to sealing and proper construction (tight miters and corners) makes a difference.

For alcove design did you look at the BK Ashford?
Min. Alcove minimum width 51”, maximum depth 48”, minimum height above stove top 37”.

We had vaulted ceilings in our old house (kitchen, living room) and it was always a pita to cool. When we built the new house we had the option to do them again bit it was actually cheaper to do 9 foot ceilings on the whole floor and we went that route....... (So far we have been very happy with our choice.)

 

[Hogwildz]

If you have an open floor plan, that gets a nice convection loop, cathedral ceilings are no big deal. My place heats great with the upstairs being all cathedral ceiling. 3 stories over the living room. Ceiling fan handles that just fine. And the stairs to upstairs being at opposite end of the house, makes for a great convection loop here. It's all in the planning and layout.

 

[Ashful]

If you have an open floor plan, that gets a nice convection loop, cathedral ceilings are no big deal. My place heats great with the upstairs being all cathedral ceiling. 3 stories over the living room. Ceiling fan handles that just fine. And the stairs to upstairs being at opposite end of the house, makes for a great convection loop here. It's all in the planning and layout.

Agreed. The only disadvantage there is less ability to zone things off, if you don’t use the whole house, but that’s more about the open floor plans that usually come with cathedral ceilings than about the ceiling height itself.

I have ceiling heights ranging from less than 7 feet to more than 14 feet in my house, and definitely prefer the higher ceilings. The parts of the house with lower ceilings definitely feel more confining, which is not appealing to most. My last house was 9 feet throughout (Victorian), and that felt great standing in that space, too.

All of these “problems” can be easily resolved with a ceiling fan or ducted system, it’s really not a factor I’d be worried about, in making a space I enjoy. If I had a lake view, I’d damn well want a big wall of glass looking out at it, too.