new insert installed BUT building inspector not happy

[nwctjeff]

I had a new PE pacific fireplace insert installed by the dealer. The building inspector was here on friday to inspect and refused to sign off on the inspection due to the stone hearth being 2 1/2" to narrow even though we also had 1 of the black fire boards (unsure of the exact name) on the floor in front of the hearth. Does anybody have any other ideas on how to extend the hearth coverage forward that would be acceptable. The building inspector was trying to tell my wife that the insert would need to be removed and a new hearth stone installed or this stone moved forward with a row of bricks placed behind it. I am not going to do a large masonary project like this to conform to this inspectors dream world. His reasoning for not accepting this fire board was that it was moveable.

I will also be in touch with the building dept. first thing monday asking for a written code that i need to comply with. Everyone I talk with seems to think a written code may not actually exist and the building inspectors go by there own opinions. Can this really be true?

 

[jtp10181]

It does need to be a permenant hearth protection. We just screw it into the floor.

 

[nwctjeff]

jtp, I was thinking of tacking it to the floor but was trying to save the new hardwaood floors from the holes. When we applied for the permit we asked for special instructions and they only specified new info regarding co detectors. We checked with 3 local stoves shops and all gave us the same infor regarding using this pad.

When the inspector came and starting doing measurements, he used the Pacific Energy brochure for his info, not any building or fire code guidelines which surprised me. The mfg specifies a minimum 16" hearth from the fireplace opening (i have 20 1/2") and then 16" of ember protection in front of the glass door(does not specify permanently affixed) . I (and the local stove shops)assume this to be 16" of fixed hearth and 16" of non combustable protection which this pad provided.

I guess the old saying - you can't fight city hall - is applying here, but I am about to give it my best shot.

 

[SlyFerret]

If it were me, I would (very carefully, of course) cut out a section of the hardwood flooring and install ceramic tile in front of the hearth.

It would be permanent, and can look really sharp if done right.

-SF

 

[webbie]

They cannot, in most cases, make up their own codes!

They should go by either NFPA or the the stove listing (label on stove and owners manual).

The listing on the stove is 16", but the newest NFPA is 18" in front of the load door - the glass seems like the correct place to measure from.

My guess is that he wants the 18" and you have about 16", hence the 2+ inches more that he wants.

Most inspectors will accept a hearth board not fastened down (in my experience), but they do not have to.

You have a perfect right to fight city hall and win, but at the same time he is correct that the hearth extension must be fastened down. You could use a couple very thin screws -#5 or so - or possibly even a couple beads of clear silicone, which could easily remove from the floor later.

If you want to surely "win", get the brochure or instructions for the board - which probably shows the testing acceptance - and fasten it down exactly as shown in the brochure.

In this case, the inspector is actually correct in stating the 18" and that the board must be fastened....so you can't fight that part.

 

[SteveT]

What about fastening the hearth extension to the floor with a brad nailer?

You could use as many brads as needed to make it rigid/permanent. Then if you ever have to remove it the holes in the floor should be all but invisible. And they could be made truly invisible with a pinhead worth of colored wood putty in each hole.

 

[begreen]

How about doing an attractive, tile or brick hearth extension? Done right it will look a a border frame for the hearth and will compliment the hardwood floors. Sounds like a 4-6" tile border would do it.

Here’s a couple examples. They're wider than you need, but show the general idea:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/9967/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/17271/

 

[thechimneysweep]

NFPA codes are generic. Manufacturer's listings are specific. If you're installing an unlisted stove, you must abide by NFPA 211 code specs. If you're installing a listed stove, you must abide by the manufacturer's listing.

The Pacific Wood Insert is a UL listed insert, and is approved for installation according to the parameters outlined in its installation manual.

Check out pages 3 and 4 of your manual at http://www.pacificenergy.net/PDF/manuals/PACINSD1'0706-20.pdf. You'll see that the Pacific Insert's listing allows a reduction to the NFPA generic specs in the following areas:

Clearance to combustible mantel
Clearance to combustible side trim
Clearance to combustible side wall
Hearth extension to the sides of the insert
Hearth extension in front of the insert

These reductions to the generic NFPA 211 requirements are typical of listed stoves, and are the main reason manufacturers get their stoves tested and listed in the first place.

NFPA recently changed their generic hearth extension requirement from 16" to 18", and this has resulted in some confusion here on the forum as to which guideline to follow. I promise you, when you're installing a listed stove, you're entitled to any reductions of NFPA generic requirements that are specified in your installation manual - including the new generic hearth extension requirement.

Make sure your stove board is at least 46-5/8" wide and provides ember protection to a point 16" in front of the loading door on your insert as the manual requires, and tack it down. If your inspector doesn't pass your installation, go have a chat with his boss.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Just noticed that the software somehow changed the percent sign % in the manual address above to a '. Can't seem to fix that from here, so here's another way to get there:

Go to (broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_insert_pacific.php) and click the DOWNLOAD MANUAL button.

 

[nwctjeff]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I will post after talking directly with the building inspector. I actually laid some tile in front of the hearth in a position that would meet the requirements and feel that absolutely no additional protection is provided due to the angle from the raised hearth to the floor. It seems as though any embers that may get past the raised hearth edge would get past the edge of the 8" tile laid on the floor in front of the hearth.. I will be exploring the idea of tacking this pad in place to appease the inspector (and removing the large area rug). After the papers are signed, I will lift the pad and use on top of the carpet to provide the larger area of protection the entire pad will provide.

 

[nwctjeff]

The inspector returned today for reinspection. After discussions on the phone and in person today, he has accepted the fire board as adequate ember protection without having to nail this board to the floor. I did show him the instructions for the stove and ul listed fire board showing no specific permanent mounting needed when using the board on the floor for a hearth extension. Specific instructions applied when joining multiple pads or when using in verticle positions. Just waiting for cooler weather to do the initial fires. almost a good reason to look forward to winter.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I've got another good reason to look forward to winter, or at least fall: HOT AND HUMID, it is in NJ right now. Then too, I have a new insert and a few months worth of seasoned firewood to make her "tick".