New Liner, Now Backdraft/Downdraft Problem

[mickey_g]

Okay, we just had our liner replaced. The guy said he was installing something that was to prevent this problem. I told him we've been using the fireplace for almost 40 years, the last 25 with a stove/liner & NEVER had a backdraft problem. He gave me a "yeah, right" look. Now, when gets below 40F or so, there's a draft I can smell & feel. Lighting the stove was a disaster the first times until I did some research. I don't want to sound stupid, but I never encountered this problem in 40 years here & if you count all the years at my parents house w/o this, it's...unsettling to say the least. I've tried opening windows, but I never had to do that before. Besides, it didn't work. I have one of those weed torches that sorta works, but I'm still not understanding the cause of this after 40 years of it not happening.

*I've been burning pretty much nothing but kiln dried hardwoods for the last 10 years.

Thanking y'all in advance.

 

[begreen]

What specifically was the something he installed?

 

[mickey_g]

He described it as like those ice cream cone swirl type vents that you see on top of old apartment buildings. I can't see it from ground level & I'm 72 years old, no way I'm about to climb on the roof & look down into it. Maybe he put it in upside down ?

 

[begreen]

Was it a vacustack cap? Sounds like it was unnecessary and a high pressure sales. He should remove it and replace the previous cap on the chimney unless it was badly deteriorated and needed replacement in which case that style should be put back on.

 

[mickey_g]

In theory, that's what he described to me, but after looking at Google images, nope; the chimney looks like just a liner coming out of it with a cap & vermin screen.

 

[Hoytman]

What specifically was the something he installed?

As important, what specifically did he remove that worked for 40 yrs.

I’d have them back and tell them “look, you sold me this, and now there is an issue”…irrelevant whether or not it happened in the past. What he sold you should work without issue, period!

 

[mickey_g]

I have a pic :
Closer look, not just a screen.

 

[begreen]

That is not a standard cap, it's a high wind cap and probably too restrictive. It is usually used for pellet and gas stoves. Here are examples of more typical caps that are less restrictive. This is what should be put back on.

 

[mickey_g]

Yeah, those are what I had on for years. I should have the liner swept soon anyway & those guys are always looking to sell you a new cap.

I'm just not understanding how something that's supposed to create a better updraft, somehow does the opposite.

Thanks again for your advice !

 

[Hoytman]

Before buying another cap…have your sweep clean everything and remove the current cap and then try burning without a cap for a few weeks.

If no problems after a few weeks then have them install one of the caps Begreen pictured for you.

If there’s still a problem, then the liner itself is the issue somehow.

I don’t recommend blindly buying another cap until you know the liner is not causing the issue somehow.

 

[mickey_g]

Do you think an uninsulated liner might cause this ?

 

[begreen]

An insulated liner would draft better and would be safer. What size liner was replaced and what sized liner is the new one? How tall is the liner in the chimney?

 

[mickey_g]

7" X 25' I'm trying to find the receipt from this job.

 

[begreen]

7" X 25' I'm trying to find the receipt from this job.

7" is what the Palladian requires, that's why I asked. If the new liner is 6" that would be more restrictive.

 

[Hoytman]

7" X 25' I'm trying to find the receipt from this job.

That’s odd…and here I thought I was the only one (🥴) using a stove with a 7” stove outlet…and mine is a coal stove.

I couldn’t even tell you which wood stove companies used (past tense) 7” stove pipe and chimney. There’s not any current manufacturers using 7” that I’m aware of.
(EDIT: Correction. See post below.)

That I’m aware of now only BK uses the 8” now…Kuma dropped their 8” stove…most of the rest is 6” … save one Jotul that comes 4” with a 4”to6” increaser.

 

[Hoytman]

7" is what the Palladian requires, that's why I asked. If the new liner is 6" that would be more restrictive.

Yep…I forgot and stand corrected.

Aren’t there 2 Woodstock stoves that use the 7”, or just the Palladian? The WS Keystone is the other stove I’m thinking may also be 7”, but I’m not sure.

You’re definitely correct about the Palladian being 7”. I totally forgot about that oddball.

 

[begreen]

The Woodstock Keystone and Palladian call for 7". The biggest BK, Buck, VC, Regency, all need an 8" liner.

 

[Hoytman]

The Woodstock Keystone and Palladian call for 7". The biggest BK, Buck, VC, Regency, all need an 8" liner.

Man…I’m slipping…I forgot about those too.😂

 

[mickey_g]

Just dumped the T-cap out. Yep it's 7"...and haven't found the receipt yet.

 

[Caw]

Do you think an uninsulated liner might cause this ?

While an insulated is certainly the best I doubt this is the cause. I have a standard uninsulated liner on my stove and it runs great. Likely something else going on...unless your draft is poor enough that the insulation really makes the difference between functioning and failing. It shouldn't.

 

[mickey_g]

unless your draft is poor enough

No problem with the draft when the system is "warm". This morning it was 25° & the draft was fine after the fire last night.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the new cap is more restrictive than the older style show previously. If so, it's a simple fix.

 

[mickey_g]

If so, it's a simple fix.

That would be great. 😀

 

[gdr]

Before buying another cap…have your sweep clean everything and remove the current cap and then try burning without a cap for a few weeks.

If no problems after a few weeks then have them install one of the caps Begreen pictured for you.

If there’s still a problem, then the liner itself is the issue somehow.

I don’t recommend blindly buying another cap until you know the liner is not causing the issue somehow.

I agree 100%.
Verify the fix before you speak with them again.
It's your house, your stove and your experience with it for 40 years.
Unfortunately, we all must "Fix" the problems first in order to tell the "newbies" what to do!

 

[Todd]

The Keystone and Palladian can be vented in to either a 6” or 7”.