New member and and a new stove

[sweedish]

I also today bought some rods and a brush, I figure if I am healthy enough to gather split and stack wood I can periodically run a brush up

 

[begreen]

My guy said I didn’t need insulation on the liner either, in my south jersey climate, he said the rules are written for people in more northern climates (like you I suppose.) we did it anyway since I already had gotten it. Putting it on took less than 4 minuets. He said a liner without the insulation would vibrate more and shake the crud out on its own...

Your guy is in error. Code determines insulation requirement, not climate. He has a good imagination, or is just a bullchitter.

 

[sweedish]

From reading on here, it seems most of the sweeps out there are slipshod, if you want it done right, do it yourself

 

[TWilk117]

Your guy is in error. Code determines insulation requirement, not climate. He has a good imagination, or is just a bullchitter.

I don’t know, makes sense to me. Colder climates would have more trouble keeping the liner hot enough. Especially on external chimneys in poor condition.
My chimney is center of house, in great condition and only rises 18” above roof.
The dudes been in the business since the days of old when everyone was burning Franklin’s.

 

[spudman99]

I am not far from the OP in distance, code here does not specify if the liner must be insulated or not (to the best of my research).

Recently stopped by a large SJ fireplace shop and asked about liners. Salesperson said they do not insulate and in this climate it is not really necessary. They will not be getting my business but then again, how many educated buyers are out there.

 

[Ashful]

I am not far from the OP in distance, code here does not specify if the liner must be insulated or not (to the best of my research).

I’m not a sweep, but I’ve heard @bholler say this enough times that I think I know the answer, by now:

A liner can be installed in a fully functional and fully code-compliant chimney without requiring insulation. However, it is damn near impossible to determine that any chimney is actually fully code compliant, and when you are actually able to fully inspect them, you will find that most are not. He normally assumes every chimney has at least one deficiency, and always recommends a liner.

Also performance on a high-efficiency stove will always be better with insulation, due to the minimal heat they are putting into said liner.

 

[begreen]

I don’t know, makes sense to me. Colder climates would have more trouble keeping the liner hot enough. Especially on external chimneys in poor condition.
My chimney is center of house, in great condition and only rises 18” above roof.
The dudes been in the business since the days of old when everyone was burning Franklin’s.

It has little to do with common sense. It has to do with having adequate protection from combustibles, ie framing touching the chimney.

 

[kborndale]

I don’t know, makes sense to me. Colder climates would have more trouble keeping the liner hot enough. Especially on external chimneys in poor condition.
My chimney is center of house, in great condition and only rises 18” above roof.
The dudes been in the business since the days of old when everyone was burning Franklin’s.

Hate to tell you but you live in a cold climate. How many times did it go down to the teens this winter? I would have trouble believing a guy that told me an uninsulated liner will be cleaner because it shakes the crud out on its own. If I was you I would find a new sweep. Just cause he has been in business a long time does not mean he has been doing a good job. Most people just take his word because they dont know any better.

 

[TWilk117]

It has little to do with common sense. It has to do with having adequate protection from combustibles, ie framing touching the chimney.

What framing touching the chimney? There is block wall all the way around it from the basement floor to the ceiling of the attic.

 

[TWilk117]

What framing touching the chimney? There is block wall all the way around it from the basement floor to the ceiling of the attic.

We did put insulation on the liner, cause I already dropped 150 on it.

 

[TWilk117]

Hate to tell you but you live in a cold climate. How many times did it go down to the teens this winter? I would have trouble believing a guy that told me an uninsulated liner will be cleaner because it shakes the crud out on its own. If I was you I would find a new sweep. Just cause he has been in business a long time does not mean he has been doing a good job. Most people just take his word because they dont know any better.

Yes it’s colder than more often than SC or TX, but not as extreme as it is more North.
I respect him cause he is an elder that has been doing this longer than I have been alive.
Why would he stear me wrong? I already had the insulation and me and his son did all the labor.

 

[begreen]

What framing touching the chimney? There is block wall all the way around it from the basement floor to the ceiling of the attic.

That's a rare exception, but passable. Is this relevant to the OP's posting?

 

[TWilk117]

That's a rare exception, but passable. Is this relevant to the OP's posting?

No. I had posted my experience to the OP, letting them know it only took 3-4 minuets to insulate the liner, even though it may not have even been necessary.. than others proceeded to call me out.

Edit: my point was insulating the liner was easy and cheaper than buying a pre insulated liner.

 

[begreen]

No problem. I just didn't want future readers of this thread to think it was ok to skip insulation because they live south of the Mason-Dixon line like the installer was implying. Most homes are stick framed and most chimneys do not have the required spacing from framing. As far as flue temp, there are homes in PA and NJ that see some very cold temps in winter so that point is also not correct. Ask someone living in Pittsburg.

 

[TWilk117]

Gotcha. This is a greatly built house.

 

[TWilk117]

No problem. I just didn't want future readers of this thread to think it was ok to skip insulation because they live south of the Mason-Dixon line like the installer was implying. Most homes are stick framed and most chimneys do not have the required spacing from framing. As far as flue temp, there are homes in PA and NJ that see some very cold temps in winter so that point is also not correct. Ask someone living in Pittsburg.

I completely understand what you’re saying, but come on, Pittsburgh is a far leap from the Philadelphia, South Jersey, DelMarVa peninsula’s.

 

[maple1]

I would suspect it would be a very rare thing to find an existing brick chimney not actually touching wood or some other combustible somewhere between its base and its cap. Let alone having enough space to meet code.

Not saying never but odds very much not in favor.

 

[begreen]

I would suspect it would be a very rare thing to find an existing brick chimney not actually touching wood or some other combustible somewhere between its base and its cap. Let alone having enough space to meet code.

Not saying never but odds very much not in favor.

Yes, we had a newer furnace chimney that was installed to code, but our old fireplace had many code violations.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes, we had a newer furnace chimney that was installed to code, but our old fireplace had many code violations.

I think people also forget code has changed over the years. My chimney has capped thimbles on the second floor because it was built when two wood burning appliances could share a flue.

 

[Woody Stover]

He said a liner without the insulation would vibrate more and shake the crud out on its own...

I would have trouble believing a guy that told me an uninsulated liner will be cleaner because it shakes the crud out on its own.

No, he's right, it will vibrate a lot when a chimney fire gets going and it's rumbling like a freight train.

There is block wall all the way around it from the basement floor to the ceiling of the attic.

Are you saying it's a clay liner inside a concrete-block chimney, or that there is a separate concrete wall around a brick masonry chimney?
Good move on your part to installing the insulation, it makes a big difference. I originally had no insulation, but put it on the new liner when I installed it. Made a big difference in the amount of creo in the liner, even though I'm "way down south" in southern IN.
The old guy probably knows quite a bit, no intentionally steering you wrong but may not be up on code, NFPA recommendations, or whatever is involved.

when using a shop vac to clean it, make sure your filter is in good order, I must have gotten mine wet and it disintegrated. It was like taking a leaf blower to the soot!

Classic, right there!

the one standing dead maple read 17.5%

Did you get a big 'un up to room temp and re-split and test? Hard to believe that the Maple would be that low, but I guess if it was standing dead for several years, all the bark fell off, it could be. Or if it was soft Maple instead of Sugar, it might be drier...

This has been a frustrating experience.

Hang in there, once it's done and you are burning, the fun you'll have will be more than worth the hassle.

 

[TWilk117]

No, he's right, it will vibrate a lot when a chimney fire gets going and it's rumbling like a freight train. Are you saying it's a clay liner inside a concrete-block chimney, or that there is a separate concrete wall around a brick masonry chimney?
Good move on your part to installing the insulation, it makes a big difference. I originally had no insulation, but put it on the new liner when I installed it. Made a big difference in the amount of creo in the liner, even though I'm "way down south" in southern IN.
The old guy probably knows quite a bit, no intentionally steering you wrong but may not be up on code, NFPA recommendations, or whatever is involved.
Classic, right there!
Did you get a big 'un up to room temp and re-split and test? Hard to believe that the Maple would be that low, but I guess if it was standing dead for several years, all the bark fell off, it could be. Or if it was soft Maple instead of Sugar, it might be drier...
Hang in there, once it's done and you are burning, the fun you'll have will be more than worth the hassle.

Clay liner inside a brick chimney incased within a block wall top to bottom with two flues. One in the basement for the oil burner. One upstairs for burning wood.

Would like to replace the oil burner with an Ideal Steel.

 

[sweedish]

The results from a resplit after a day getting to room temp were still 17.5%. The maple had all the bark off so it’s been dead awhile

 

[sweedish]

Here is a pic of my fireplace after the insert taken out. I took the mantle off and low and behold I now have access to the cavities. It’s a superior fireplace heatilator/heat form

 

[sweedish]

I then insulated, I know I went overboard with it. I plan on replacing the mantle with a metal one, got rid of the combustibles so I should not need a shield.

 

[sweedish]

And upon cutting out the smoke shelf and dampener, I had access to the back too. I have 4qty 1” layers on top, until I get my liner I am going to refrain from finishing the insulation and block off plate, I only have it roughed in.