New Napoleon 1402 owner with high temperature issue's

[bfowler02]

Hello ladies and gents,
I recently purchased a napoleon 1402 fireplace insert with a 6" SS insulated liner to go with it. The chimney is 12' from the appliance to the rain cap and is not located on an exterior wall. I am burning 14-15 month old oak / Pecan firewood. Moisture readings on the wood range from 23% -18% unless my moisture meter is incorrect of course.
The issue is when I load the firebox up as the manual says I eventually end up with center stove top temperatures of anywhere from 700*- 950* I have tried to start turning the air down as low as 300* but once the secondary combustion begins is when the temperature becomes uncontrollable. I just cannot get the stove to "cruise" as said a lot on this forum.
Its mostly a continuous rise until a peak and then a slow temp fall from there. Only way to not peak at those temps is to use less wood. I will give more info later but I have to get back to work right now! thanks in advance guys. I have been reading through all the over firing and operation threads to try and figure this thing out but no luck yet.

 

[begreen]

That's unusual. The 1402 typically wants more chimney to draft correctly. Has the insert been investigated for air leaks from a leaky door gasket, cracked welds or firebox?

 

[bfowler02]

Thanks for the reply Begreen ,I just realized I spelled Napoleon wrong in the title, my apologies. I wanted to add some earlier background to my previous post. When I first received the stove the brunt of the weight was being supported by the air control rod the way is was set on the pallet for shipment. Once I moved it off the pallet the rod seemed fine but a bit sloppy with some side to side and up and down play. I flipped it on its back to investigate and it seemed ok. After a few uses and realizing I could not control it very well I decided to get online and do some searching on this site to see if it was an operator issue as I had already been here during my pre buy stove research.

I tried multiple suggestions from this site to others of when to close the air down and how much etc... but nothing was working. Once the secondary re-burn would begin there was not much I could do to control the temperature. It would continue to climb regardless of what I did with the air control rod. I then thought my firewood was the culprit as I was filling it with oak for max burn times. I switched to my Pecan firewood with a similar affect but a bit lower peak temperature. I called napoleon and they told me to check for air leaks as the only thing to explain it is either an air leak or excessive draft caused by low temps combined with a tall chimney. Considering my liner from appliance to the rain cap is only 12Ft the conclusion was it's getting to much air from somewhere.

I then began to wonder about the sloppy air control rod and when I pulled the insert out and looked at the bottom I could see the brackets that hold the rod assembly tight underneath the stove were bent allowing all the play in the rod. I was able to bend the brackets back up and get a much tighter operating air control rod . Fast forward to the next fire, immediately I notice more control of the fire early on with the air control rod. Once the temperature climbed to around 450*-500* and the all of the log gas began to re-burn I was having issue's again with temperature. It would slowly climb and when I would close the air down it would cause the flames to become lazy and noticeably less intense but the secondary burning would increase and then the temperature would continue to climb up over 700* once again, thus burning my load of oak up quite quickly.

So after all this I did gain a lot of control but still I cannot seem to prevent a full firebox of wood from over temping my stove, I can make it a much slower process then before but it still happens. I did check the door seal with a piece of paper and its tight all the way around. I did not inspect the stove for cracks at this point. I'm hoping I fixed the issue already and now I just need to learn how to burn with correctly without the over temp. This morning I tried to start shutting it down at 300* slowly and I was able to keep it around 450*-500* for sometime but it seemed as more of the wood in the back began to catch and burn "gas" the secondary re-burn started and the temp began to slowly climb and ultimately reached just shy of 900* at its peak before coming back down. As of now it seems to me the only way to keep those high temps away is to load less wood and damp down early.

 

[begreen]

I'm sorry to hear that. Did the dealer offer help? The regulation of air may still be compromised if the air control is not closing off sufficiently.

 

[bfowler02]

Napoleon just told me to have an installer come out and inspect the unit.....

 

[begreen]

This spring I would pull the insert again and really study the action of the air control. Make sure that the blade closing off the air is in snug contact with the stove body and see if the control is closing off the air about 80-90%. If not, see if the stop got bent and needs to be adjusted.

 

[bfowler02]

This spring I would pull the insert again and really study the action of the air control. Make sure that the blade closing off the air is in snug contact with the stove body and see if the control is closing off the air about 80-90%. If not, see if the stop got bent and needs to be adjusted.

Will do, if we get a couple days of warm weather I will do it sooner. At what temp would you suggest closing it down? Should I wait until 400* plus and then start down slow or fast?

 

[begreen]

If the wood is dry then yes, start closing it down as soon as it is starting to burn robustly. 400ºF is fine, or even sooner as long as the fire is not starting to smolder.

How thick are the splits being burned. Thicker splits will also slow down the burn. Also, what wood species is being burned?

 

[bfowler02]

If the wood is dry then yes, start closing it down as soon as it is starting to burn robustly. 400ºF is fine, or even sooner as long as the fire is not starting to smolder.

How thick are the splits being burned. Thicker splits will also slow down the burn. Also, what wood species is being burned?

The split sizes are anywhere from 3" - 6" at the widest section of meat and it is mixed oak.

 

[bfowler02]

Also is it normal to see temps go up when the air is closed? I get that initially they will be due to the exiting of the exhaust gas being slowed but mine seem to continuously creep up.

 

[blacktail]

What kind of thermometer? Can you try another one to see if yours is accurate?

 

[bfowler02]

What kind of thermometer? Can you try another one to see if yours is accurate?

I have a magnetic one I got off amazon and a infared thermometer from lowes and the magnetic is slow to react but its verified by the Infared thermometer. I have seen a peak of 950

 

[bfowler02]

Just awhile ago I was able to control a t split fire to a peak of 650. 1 large piece of oak and 4 smaller oaks. I got the temp up to 300 and went down to air setting 5 from high for around 3-4 minutes. Came back to it at about 400 and turned it down to setting 3 for another few minutes.the next check it was around 450-465 stove top. I turned the air down to 1 and gave it a few minutes to respond. It got to 550 after 5-7 minutes on air setting 1. Once I saw 550 I put it down to the lowest air setting which reads "low" and it slowly creeped up to about 650 over the next half hour

 

[begreen]

Good to hear that closing down the air sooner is showing results.

The split sizes are anywhere from 3" - 6" at the widest section of meat and it is mixed oak.

If possible try a load of 6-8" splits and see if that is more controllable.

 

[bfowler02]

Good to hear that closing down the air sooner is showing results.

If possible try a load of 6-8" splits and see if that is more controllable.

Larger splits are better. They seem to react much slower and allow more time for air control change then a bunch of small splits going nuclear in just a few minutes. I think things are already getting much better. Thanks for taking the time to offer the help to a new wood burner. I hope I never have to make a call to the propane man again!