tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
Light it once in the fall and you're done. They go down to 3-5000 btu/hr idle. Dust is operator error.
New Pellet stove owner with questions
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alternativeheat
Minister of Fire
None of my business and I'm not plugging for anything but I have to say that I have way more dust with pellets than I ever had with anthracite coal. Actually if these winter allergies keep up I may go back to coal eventually if I see the market is stable enough. I had the same issue with wood in the house and never with coal. Burning wood kicked up allergies that coal never did. Just sayin.
elevenMracing
Member
Can't help you with stove settings/sooted glass, unfamiliar with that stove. But for refernece I have a 68,000 btu stove in a 30x40ft steel building with 12ft ceilings. Insulated with 6in fiberglass in walls and ceiling, insulated garage and service doors, and 1 double pane window. Keeping it a 60 degress inside during 0 degree outside temps uses about 2 bags in 24hrs, once outside temp gets above freezing it's real close to a bag a day.
F4jock
Minister of Fire
Different likes and dislikes are what makes the world go 'round and thank God for them or we'd all be in love with the same woman, drive the same car, eat the same food and burn the same things.
alternativeheat
Minister of Fire
Jason845845
Feeling the Heat
Maybe you could help the pellet stove out with a 200k btu torpedo heater, they aren't terribly expensive and will help get the building up to temperature.
tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
Well the torpedo heater we have in there now we already owned, so it was free. As I've said, I know asking the stove to heat the uninsulated building is NOT in any way/shape/form the idea situation.
We are trying to work on the insulation situation, but as often happens sometimes life just gets in the way. so until then I would just like to ensure the stove is operating correctly
So, if we can shift the focus of the thread from insulation to stove performance I would appreciate it.
Like I said in post 1, we cannot get the stove to burn on 1 (low). If we turn it down to 1 for the night, the glass will be black, and on 2 occasions it has put black soot out the exhaust pipe- enough that it blew back onto the building and needed wiped off.
If we put it down to 2 for the night, the glass has a large black "V: on it.
if we leave it on 3, no issues. the glass may be slightly dirty but no soot.
on Monday it was around 10 degrees outside. With the pellet stove burning on high, we had the draft about 3/4 open. the fender of the truck we had parked in the garage was ice cold. It was about 10ft away directly in the line of the stove blower and felt like zero heat from the stove made it that far. if the stove was burning on high, which is rated at 65k btu, shouldn't we be feeling heat on that fender?
Also I've notice that if we have the stove burning on high we have a nice large flame, and sometimes as pellets drop in, the flame dies down then builds back up. is this normal?
We are trying to work on the insulation situation, but as often happens sometimes life just gets in the way. so until then I would just like to ensure the stove is operating correctly
So, if we can shift the focus of the thread from insulation to stove performance I would appreciate it.
Like I said in post 1, we cannot get the stove to burn on 1 (low). If we turn it down to 1 for the night, the glass will be black, and on 2 occasions it has put black soot out the exhaust pipe- enough that it blew back onto the building and needed wiped off.
If we put it down to 2 for the night, the glass has a large black "V: on it.
if we leave it on 3, no issues. the glass may be slightly dirty but no soot.
on Monday it was around 10 degrees outside. With the pellet stove burning on high, we had the draft about 3/4 open. the fender of the truck we had parked in the garage was ice cold. It was about 10ft away directly in the line of the stove blower and felt like zero heat from the stove made it that far. if the stove was burning on high, which is rated at 65k btu, shouldn't we be feeling heat on that fender?
Also I've notice that if we have the stove burning on high we have a nice large flame, and sometimes as pellets drop in, the flame dies down then builds back up. is this normal?
Bioburner
Moderator
That stove has little to no radiant heat. So getting heat to the truck bumper is like lighting a match in a outhouse and hoping to stay warm. I have a 50k btu propain radiant heater that can only get the heat 5 feet in your conditions. From MN I deal with this c$%! for 6 months at a time
It's -18 here this AM
The poor stove is so cold it does not want to fire on low and carbons up as I previously posted. Been there done that.
Flame rising and falling is normal.
Short term solution would be to make a simple frame and cover in plastic to enclose the work and heat that.
It's -18 here this AMThe poor stove is so cold it does not want to fire on low and carbons up as I previously posted. Been there done that.
Flame rising and falling is normal.
Short term solution would be to make a simple frame and cover in plastic to enclose the work and heat that.
Old Spartan
Burning Hunk
To be frank .....
You are looking for a solution to a given problem set that does not exist unless you change the equation.
However with that said:
Black soot is the result of incomplete combustion. You may be able to alleviate that by increasing combustion air. This increase is probably happening on the higher settings, hence less black soot.
You have a building that has a heat loss in excess of 25,000 BTU per 10 TD. Your stove has a stated capacity of 65K, (that does not mean you actually get 65K at full throttle for various reasons), but assuming the full 65K the stove can handle a 25 degree temperature difference. Basically at 10 outside the best the stove will accomplish under ideal conditions within your example would be an interior temp of 35 degrees.
Most likely your stove is operating within normal parameters. The problem is the parameters you are asking it operate in.
You are looking for a solution to a given problem set that does not exist unless you change the equation.
However with that said:
Black soot is the result of incomplete combustion. You may be able to alleviate that by increasing combustion air. This increase is probably happening on the higher settings, hence less black soot.
You have a building that has a heat loss in excess of 25,000 BTU per 10 TD. Your stove has a stated capacity of 65K, (that does not mean you actually get 65K at full throttle for various reasons), but assuming the full 65K the stove can handle a 25 degree temperature difference. Basically at 10 outside the best the stove will accomplish under ideal conditions within your example would be an interior temp of 35 degrees.
Most likely your stove is operating within normal parameters. The problem is the parameters you are asking it operate in.
again spartan, right now I am not concerned with temperature increase. I'm concerned with stove performance. we have a plan in place to get some insulation in but that might be a week or two away until we have it up on all the walls. We should be able to get some poly iso on the walls, im thinking the R value was around 7 or 8. while we would love to have a higher r value, 1- that's what will fit our budget right now, and 2- that will fit nicely into the wall framing making it easy for us to install quickly.
So if I'm reading your post correctly- because the garage is SO cold we cannot achieve complete combustion on the low setting? when we burn on 3 the stove is heating the air around it enough to overcome this cold?
bioburner- while sectioning off the garage would be a nice idea, our "project" is a dump truck which given its location takes up 2/3 of the garage. so not really an option.
So if I'm reading your post correctly- because the garage is SO cold we cannot achieve complete combustion on the low setting? when we burn on 3 the stove is heating the air around it enough to overcome this cold?
bioburner- while sectioning off the garage would be a nice idea, our "project" is a dump truck which given its location takes up 2/3 of the garage. so not really an option.
Bioburner
Moderator
Spring is 29 days away. I gave up on doing a manifold project on a Jeep in the shop till the temps around here get close to normal which is Friday and only for that day.
Yes, the stove is sucking so much of the heat out it doesn't get to proper temp till you get to its mid range.
Think of a cold diesel engine and how poor it runs till it warms up some.
F4jock
Minister of Fire
You said the stove was new. Just for grins have you checked the gaskets with smoke to be sure they are tight? Where are you drawing your combustion air?
Bio- now you're speaking my language! I drive a diesel everyday!
yes the stove is brand new. we have not checked any gaskets with smoke. I know it doesn't say much, but when we looked the stove over during install we did not see anything that looked obviously out of place.
We are drawing the combustion air in from the room. just from the back of the stove, we did not add any type of ducting for the air intake.
yes the stove is brand new. we have not checked any gaskets with smoke. I know it doesn't say much, but when we looked the stove over during install we did not see anything that looked obviously out of place.
We are drawing the combustion air in from the room. just from the back of the stove, we did not add any type of ducting for the air intake.
F4jock
Minister of Fire
Wonder what would happen if you tried a temporary OAK? Sounds like a combustion problem at low end. That is usually an airflow problem. No obstructions in or out right?
no obstructions. we followed the specs in the manual and what I found on here. I forget what the scoring system was but it gives straight pipe, 45s and 90s an numerical value. I read not to go over a score of 15 with 3" pipe. We have the stove in the corner on a 45, so our pipe setup is:
45 out of stove, straight pipe, cleanout tee, straight pipe up to just shy of roof line with a cap.
we ran the pipe up till our score was 15.
if the suggestions that the cold air is causing the poor flame, wouldn't an OAK make that worse?
45 out of stove, straight pipe, cleanout tee, straight pipe up to just shy of roof line with a cap.
we ran the pipe up till our score was 15.
if the suggestions that the cold air is causing the poor flame, wouldn't an OAK make that worse?
also I had the r value wrong. the insulation we have lined up for the walls has an r value of 9.5
Bioburner
Moderator
Just to get this cold stove a bit of airing that I am not just guessing about this issue. Dealer would start a stove that was in the back of a truck inside and the stove would get going great and be running fine and then would take off down the road in sub zero weather to show and stoves fire would slowly degrade as it got colder. In two hours the stove was running terrible and soot everywhere but after it would get inside and temps above 55 the stove would clean up and again burn fine. Most stoves are not designed to try and heat in a room that's not anywhere close to what they call a normal room temperature.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
If you are also running that torpedo it too is going top draw its combustion air from the same pool as the roaster and one or the other is going to win that battle the loser will soot up like crazy on the low burn end and maybe a lot of the higher settings it will just take longer.
Also if the air flow through the stove is not all going through the burn pot the stoves air/fuel ratio will be out of balance, this will be worse at the low firing rate because the stove is not adjusted for it, in that the burn pot is going to cause its own pellet pile (fuel) air bypasses (the holes in the burn pot that don't have burning pellets over them).
Take your pick both are in operation.
Also if the air flow through the stove is not all going through the burn pot the stoves air/fuel ratio will be out of balance, this will be worse at the low firing rate because the stove is not adjusted for it, in that the burn pot is going to cause its own pellet pile (fuel) air bypasses (the holes in the burn pot that don't have burning pellets over them).
Take your pick both are in operation.
we don't burn the torpedo heater continuously. cant it will run you out with the fumes.
now the next question- if we get the insulation in the walls of 9.5, what would that put my BTU need at? right now its 250k with no insulation
now the next question- if we get the insulation in the walls of 9.5, what would that put my BTU need at? right now its 250k with no insulation
Old Spartan
Burning Hunk
Not knowing all the building specifics )ceiling height, door square footage, slab insulation and more) I would guess an R9 encapsulation of exterior surfaces and ceiling would result in a heat loss of perhaps 100,000 at 100 TD. -- or
At 0 degree outside you should be able to maintain 55 - 65 degree inside.
Just a ballpark
Here is a work sheet that might be of help http://www.usboiler.net/heat-loss-calculator.html
At 0 degree outside you should be able to maintain 55 - 65 degree inside.
Just a ballpark
Here is a work sheet that might be of help http://www.usboiler.net/heat-loss-calculator.html
F4jock
Minister of Fire
And if you can get that 15 score down without too much trouble for the purposes of a test do it.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Old Spartan
Burning Hunk
OAK- this isn't exactly easy for us to install. We would have to cut another hole in our building. its possible and an option if need be, but I would like to put this off for now.
in regards to the sooty flame, should we try opening the draft more on low? the stove is in my dads garage so he is the one playing with it most times. he said he found the stove seems to like the draft right around halfway open, maybe open or closed slightly more/less but generally in the 50% area. just wondering if maybe we need to maybe close it way down to like 25% on low?
as for our current exhaust setup- I found what I was talking about before, the Equal Vertical Length calculation. it would be easy for us to try lowering our score if you guys think that might help. sorry I had the score wrong its .5 for vertical not 1.
Current setup:
45 elbow- 3
2' straight horizontal pipe- 2
cleanout tee- 5
5' straight vertical pipe- 2.5
that gives us 12.5. we could pretty easily remove the clean out tee and vertical stack. that would give us a score of 5 rather than 12.5. our only reason for not originally going with that route was I believe our directions mentioned having some section of vertical pipe for good venting. however is searching around it seems straight out the back with a cap would be acceptable.
last night I was in the garage, actually dropping off a 2nd pallet of pellets, and was looking at the stove. burning on 5- high, we have a nice bright flame and everything appeared to be working correctly. the temp on the side of the stove said 32 and it was single digits outside, probably around 5. So I assume our stove is working as it should.
the bad part for us, which is unrelated, is that our torpedo heater decided to quit yesterday. So today my dads first priority is to try to get that looked at. We are also hoping to get some insulation picked up within the next few days.
in regards to the sooty flame, should we try opening the draft more on low? the stove is in my dads garage so he is the one playing with it most times. he said he found the stove seems to like the draft right around halfway open, maybe open or closed slightly more/less but generally in the 50% area. just wondering if maybe we need to maybe close it way down to like 25% on low?
as for our current exhaust setup- I found what I was talking about before, the Equal Vertical Length calculation. it would be easy for us to try lowering our score if you guys think that might help. sorry I had the score wrong its .5 for vertical not 1.
Current setup:
45 elbow- 3
2' straight horizontal pipe- 2
cleanout tee- 5
5' straight vertical pipe- 2.5
that gives us 12.5. we could pretty easily remove the clean out tee and vertical stack. that would give us a score of 5 rather than 12.5. our only reason for not originally going with that route was I believe our directions mentioned having some section of vertical pipe for good venting. however is searching around it seems straight out the back with a cap would be acceptable.
last night I was in the garage, actually dropping off a 2nd pallet of pellets, and was looking at the stove. burning on 5- high, we have a nice bright flame and everything appeared to be working correctly. the temp on the side of the stove said 32 and it was single digits outside, probably around 5. So I assume our stove is working as it should.
the bad part for us, which is unrelated, is that our torpedo heater decided to quit yesterday. So today my dads first priority is to try to get that looked at. We are also hoping to get some insulation picked up within the next few days.
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