New Progress Hybrid 209a

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
I'm wondering if the new PH is working well with the new air lever and if the global satisfaction still as good as before?
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
Yes it is. The PH is a nice stove having some paticular points like double soapstone walls, HD heat exchanger, cast iron and soapstone cooktop, clean burning emissions, near 800 pounds...but they don't have stores anywhere, they just sell direct to customers. And one point makes me hesitate is there is no front door, just side one. I love the top/down lighting method and from the side opening door, well not shure ????
They made some improvements recently like the air damper lever....
Thanks Clancey and I hope you recover well from your accident.
Salutations from Québec
 

BCC_Burner

Feeling the Heat
Sep 10, 2013
383
Crystal River Valley, CO
Just my $0.02, but when I think of a stove that is a serious home heating appliance (PH, Ideal Steel, Blaze Kings) I think of them as something that you're probably only building a "new" fire in a handful of times per year (fewer than 5 or 6). They're 24/7 heaters: fire them up sometime in November, and don't let them get cold until Easter.

I have a 1900 square foot ranch and I'm strongly considering installing two woodstoves: a PE Alderlea T5 for shoulder seasons (actually, I would LOVE a Rizzoli cookstove, but I'm not willing to put a cookstove anywhere but in the kitchen, nor am I willing to sacrifice cabinet and counter space for one), ambiance and supplemental heat when it's extremely cold, and a PH, IS or Blaze King to supply the bulk of my heating needs from late November to early April.

I have no interest in super low heat output, long cat burns in the shoulder season. Caking the firebox with creosote like those burning practices do would drive me crazy. I would much rather run a non-cat in the shoulder seasons.

I suppose I could try to make a T6 work, but I think even a large non-cat will struggle to provide 10-14 hour burn times with the wood I can get around here. The best firewood I can find is lodgepole pine, most of what I burn is Aspen, Cottonwood and subalpine fir, which only come in around 15-16 million BTU's per cord.

The American Rocky Mountains are generally a crappy place to heat with wood. Huge daily temperature swings, high altitude which impairs combustion and draft, low quality wood, etc. "The Canadian Rockies are the best Rockies."
 
Last edited:

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
Just my $0.02, but when I think of a stove that is a serious home heating appliance (PH, Ideal Steel, Blaze Kings) I think of them as something that you're probably only building a "new" fire in a handful of times per year (fewer than 5 or 6). They're 24/7 heaters: fire them up sometime in November, and don't let them get cold until Easter.

I have a 1900 square foot ranch and I'm strongly considering installing two woodstoves: a PE Alderlea T5 for shoulder seasons (actually, I would LOVE a Rizzoli cookstove, but I'm not willing to put a cookstove anywhere but in the kitchen, nor am I willing to sacrifice cabinet and counter space for one), ambiance and supplemental heat when it's extremely cold, and a PH, IS or Blaze King to supply the bulk of my heating needs from late November to early April.

I have no interest in super low heat output, long cat burns in the shoulder season. Caking the firebox with creosote like those burning practices do would drive me crazy. I would much rather run a non-cat in the shoulder seasons.

I suppose I could try to make a T6 work, but I think even a large non-cat will struggle to provide 10-14 hour burn times with the wood I can get around here. The best firewood I can find is lodgepole pine, most of what I burn is Aspen, Cottonwood and subalpine fir, which only come in around 15-16 million BTU's per cord.

The American Rocky Mountains are generally a crappy place to heat with wood. Huge daily temperature swings, high altitude which impairs combustion and draft, low quality wood, etc. "The Canadian Rockies are the best Rockies."
The shoulder season is when cat stoves shine. When burning harder there really isn't that much benifit over good noncat stoves. And I don't know why you think you would need a cot stove to only light a few fires a year. Many many people do that with noncats
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,848
Downeast Maine
Just my $0.02, but when I think of a stove that is a serious home heating appliance (PH, Ideal Steel, Blaze Kings) I think of them as something that you're probably only building a "new" fire in a handful of times per year (fewer than 5 or 6). They're 24/7 heaters: fire them up sometime in November, and don't let them get cold until Easter.

I have a 1900 square foot ranch and I'm strongly considering installing two woodstoves: a PE Alderlea T5 for shoulder seasons (actually, I would LOVE a Rizzoli cookstove, but I'm not willing to put a cookstove anywhere but in the kitchen, nor am I willing to sacrifice cabinet and counter space for one), ambiance and supplemental heat when it's extremely cold, and a PH, IS or Blaze King to supply the bulk of my heating needs from late November to early April.

I have no interest in super low heat output, long cat burns in the shoulder season. Caking the firebox with creosote like those burning practices do would drive me crazy. I would much rather run a non-cat in the shoulder seasons.

I suppose I could try to make a T6 work, but I think even a large non-cat will struggle to provide 10-14 hour burn times with the wood I can get around here. The best firewood I can find is lodgepole pine, most of what I burn is Aspen, Cottonwood and subalpine fir, which only come in around 15-16 million BTU's per cord.

The American Rocky Mountains are generally a crappy place to heat with wood. Huge daily temperature swings, high altitude which impairs combustion and draft, low quality wood, etc. "The Canadian Rockies are the best Rockies."
I have no regrets on our cookstove taking up a ton of real estate.
 

BCC_Burner

Feeling the Heat
Sep 10, 2013
383
Crystal River Valley, CO
The shoulder season is when cat stoves shine. When burning harder there really isn't that much benifit over good noncat stoves. And I don't know why you think you would need a cot stove to only light a few fires a year. Many many people do that with noncats
Meh, cat stoves only shine in the shoulder season in certain climates. In October/November/April where I live, it's common to have overnight lows of 0 to -10F, and afternoon highs in the 50's and 60's. The temperatures often swing 30-40 degrees in the span of two hours around sunset (you should hear my standing seam metal roof pop as it expands and contracts with the temp swings). A quick hot fire in the evening and/or morning to chase the chill is far more practical than smoldering all day long. When it's 65 and sunny, even a smoldering BK will be too much, but unless you live in a super-insulated house, you're going to need some heat a few hours later when it's in the teens and dropping.

My wording may not have been super clear, but the point I was trying to make about not letting your preferred fire starting method deter someone from a catalytic stove was that with the longer burn times, you're primarily going to be restarting one from a coal bed, and not from a totally cold stove.
 
Last edited:

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,668
South Puget Sound, WA
We had this happen yesterday. I bet you did too BCC. A cold front slammed through yesterday and temps dropped to 45º overnight. I lit the first fire in a month. No issues with overheating, etc. Easy start with a 3 split fire. The sun will be out and warm things up in a few hours so I don't plan on burning all day. There are times when one does not need or want a long burn. If one knows their stove and how to run it then shoulder season burning is not a great challenge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BCC_Burner

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
Some times a heat pump is more practical than the wood stove but not as nice to watch ...Imust say that here in Qc, the Kw/h is lower than most places and probably cheaper than the wood cost .
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,668
South Puget Sound, WA
Love our heatpump. It's clean, quiet, and much more efficient than the stove. And it gets up before me to warm up the house. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: nortcan

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,796
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
It is just as easy to have a short hot fire in a Bk cat stove with three splits. You aren’t forced to fill it and run low all day. You can run it like a noncat too. I did that yesterday because as mentioned above, even on low output, a full load has too much heat for the needs of the day.

Few hours of flame show and then it goes cold. Easy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoytman

Rearscreen

Minister of Fire
Dec 21, 2014
720
Vermont
I'm wondering if the new PH is working well with the new air lever and if the global satisfaction still as good as before?
Gee, I'd love to answer your question but Woodstock won't sell me one so I can't tell you. Their excuse is that there are no instructions how to retrofit. I've shot many "how to" videos for many companies (Fine Woodworking, Toyostove and others) and I offered for free to produce a professional video because I believe in their product. No reply regarding my offer.
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
Gee, I'd love to answer your question but Woodstock won't sell me one so I can't tell you. Their excuse is that there are no instructions how to retrofit. I've shot many "how to" videos for many companies (Fine Woodworking, Toyostove and others) and I offered for free to produce a professional video because I believe in their product. No reply regarding my offer.
Curious from Woodstock Stoves Company, probably very/too busy to answer your super video offer ???? Anyway I thank you for your answer about the retrofit damper. But my principal question is about the PH 209a and how it works , it's the **new** model incorporating the changes from the 209 model. It would be nice to see photos of the 209a differences....and your vodeo.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
Curious from Woodstock Stoves Company, probably very/too busy to answer your super video offer ???? Anyway I thank you for your answer about the retrofit damper. But my principal question is about the PH 209a and how it works , it's the **new** model incorporating the changes from the 209 model. It would be nice to see photos of the 209a differences....and your vodeo.
Are there any differences or was it just recertified? Their emissions were already so low I doubt there were any major changes
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
In the PH documentation, they write : EPA Emissions for the 209 = 1.33 gm/hr. And for the 209a = 0.63 gm/hr.
I think that the main change is the new air damper control but wonder if there are other changes for the PH 209a. One thing I respect from Woodstock is that they write a lower burn time than what Hearthstone claims. My Heritage is **rated** for a burn time of 25 hrs, I don't know for other Heritage owners but I still far from the 20hrs burn time...Woodstock writes for the PH 209a (having a larger fire box than the Heritage) 8-16 hrs burn time, what I consider more *honest* for the buyers.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,668
South Puget Sound, WA
They may have also modified the secondary air tubes to provide more air for the secondary burn.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
In the PH documentation, they write : EPA Emissions for the 209 = 1.33 gm/hr. And for the 209a = 0.63 gm/hr.
I think that the main change is the new air damper control but wonder if there are other changes for the PH 209a. One thing I respect from Woodstock is that they write a lower burn time than what Hearthstone claims. My Heritage is **rated** for a burn time of 25 hrs, I don't know for other Heritage owners but I still far from the 20hrs burn time...Woodstock writes for the PH 209a (having a larger fire box than the Heritage) 8-16 hrs burn time, what I consider more *honest* for the buyers.
That is 25 hours of "heat time" for their new hybrid version of the heritage. The old tube version like you had did not claim that much time. It is now a very different stove. We get it you had a bad experience with hearthstone stoves but many others use them with no issues. There is no need to continue brand bashing.
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
bholler, I have the new Hreritage Truhybrid 8024, and the 25 hrs is for total burn including the soapstone heat life. I got the Heritage 8023 with tubes so I know and assume what I say here, and I don't bash Hearthstone just say things future custommers can check before making a good choice.
Many are scared to say thing like they are but if wanting to be honest on a forum , members must tell the real experiences they get with their stove, the good and the bad ones.
And that is my questions here for the Woodstock Progress Hybrid 209a.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
bholler, I have the new Hreritage Truhybrid 8024, and the 25 hrs is for total burn including the soapstone heat life. I got the Heritage 8023 with tubes so I know and assume what I say here, and I don't bash Hearthstone just say things future custommers can check before making a good choice.
Many are scared to say thing like they are but if wanting to be honest on a forum , members must tell the real experiences they get with their stove, the good and the bad ones.
And that is my questions here for the Woodstock Progress Hybrid 209a.
Ok my apologies I thought both of your heritages were the old version.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
bholler, I have the new Hreritage Truhybrid 8024, and the 25 hrs is for total burn including the soapstone heat life. I got the Heritage 8023 with tubes so I know and assume what I say here, and I don't bash Hearthstone just say things future custommers can check before making a good choice.
Many are scared to say thing like they are but if wanting to be honest on a forum , members must tell the real experiences they get with their stove, the good and the bad ones.
And that is my questions here for the Woodstock Progress Hybrid 209a.
Absolutely no one is saying don't be honest about your experience. And now that I know you have a true hybrid one your analysis is completely fair on that which I aplogize for. But you also have to realize your experience with two stoves does not mean that all hearts one stoves are poorly built or have the same issues yours did.
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
Absolutely no one is saying don't be honest about your experience. And now that I know you have a true hybrid one your analysis is completely fair on that which I aplogize for. But you also have to realize your experience with two stoves does not mean that all hearts one stoves are poorly built or have the same issues yours did.
Well, in fact the subject has deviated from the PH to the Hearthstone and hope to get some PH 209a owners opinions on their PH.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,178
central pa
Well, in fact the subject has deviated from the PH to the Hearthstone and hope to get some PH 209a owners opinions on their PH.
It only deviated to that because you did so. I have yet to even see a new PH so I cannot comment on that stove.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,668
South Puget Sound, WA
Is the PH sold or shipped to Canada?
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
314
Ohio
Burn time and heat life are two different things in any stove. I for one do not like how Hearthstone uses this for sales. Giving as additional information I have no issue with, but even steel holds heat for some “time”....just not as much time as cast iron or soapstone. Burn time is just that, burn time....smoldering or not. Least that’s how I see it and how I’d like to see all stoves advertised.

I would also like to see more companies using more realistic btu/hr information instead of the inflated ones most use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nortcan and bholler

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,668
South Puget Sound, WA
As discussed a length several times in the past, burn time means different things to different people. To some it means having some live coals for an easy restart. For others, burntime means the period of meaningful heat, say until the stove body drops down to 250. Burntime will also depend on outside temps and the house heat-loss rate. A stove might be ready for an easy relight off of live coals in 16 hrs during mild temps, and that can drop down to half on a very cold day because a 250º stove could be insufficient to keep up with the house's heat-loss. For these reasons, it's better to go by firebox size rather than miracle long burntime reports by marketing and some exuberant stove owners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nortcan