New Progress Hybrid 209a

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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
Exactly advertised burn times are way to subjective. The stove I am running now can burn for 24hrs on a single load of wood. But if I actually want to heat my house with it a 24 hr burn will generally not cut it. I generally burn in 8 or 12 he cycles
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
314
Ohio
As discussed a length several times in the past, burn time means different things to different people. To some it means having some live coals for an easy restart. For others, burntime means the period of meaningful heat, say until the stove body drops down to 250. Burntime will also depend on outside temps and the house heat-loss rate. A stove might be ready for an easy relight off of live coals in 16 hrs during mild temps, and that can drop down to half on a very cold day because a 250º stove could be insufficient to keep up with the house's heat-loss. For these reasons, it's better to go by firebox size rather than miracle long burntime reports by marketing and some exuberant stove owners.
I understand what you are saying, but at the same time it’s all diluted informs from all parties.

I am just saying standardizing is what needs to take place, then everyone knows precisely what it means. Anything additional as information is just that, additional.

Light a match. How long does it burn? That defines burn time. First flame to out=burn time. Period!

Big coals and a lot to relight from, or small coals, even if only ONE small coal, yet still be able to light from. See how the water gets muddied? I’m sure you understand what I am saying.

Easy way to “fix” that issue is to standardize what burn time means. If they don’t want to standardize it, then at least let that company describe what it means to them so the buyer can make a more informed decision.

Let’s also keep things realistic. We know “exact” is a misnomer when it comes to burning with a stove.
 
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nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
As discussed a length several times in the past, burn time means different things to different people. To some it means having some live coals for an easy restart. For others, burntime means the period of meaningful heat, say until the stove body drops down to 250. Burntime will also depend on outside temps and the house heat-loss rate. A stove might be ready for an easy relight off of live coals in 16 hrs during mild temps, and that can drop down to half on a very cold day because a 250º stove could be insufficient to keep up with the house's heat-loss. For these reasons, it's better to go by firebox size rather than miracle long burntime reports by marketing and some exuberant stove owners.
I'm wondering if there wouldn't be possible to get a, I don't know how to say it, I mean a sort of ** Certification for burn time** to compare the burn times the same manner for stoves , maybe from EPA when they make tests for a stove as an example...like they do for efficiency, just an idea!
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
I understand what you are saying, but at the same time it’s all diluted informs from all parties.

I am just saying standardizing is what needs to take place, then everyone knows precisely what it means. Anything additional as information is just that, additional.

Light a match. How long does it burn? That defines burn time. First flame to out=burn time. Period!

Big coals and a lot to relight from, or small coals, even if only ONE small coal, yet still be able to light from. See how the water gets muddied? I’m sure you understand what I am saying.

Easy way to “fix” that issue is to standardize what burn time means. If they don’t want to standardize it, then at least let that company describe what it means to them so the buyer can make a more informed decision.

Let’s also keep things realistic. We know “exact” is a misnomer when it comes to burning with a stove.
OOPS, you said exactly what I just sent but in a really better English than mine.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
I understand what you are saying, but at the same time it’s all diluted informs from all parties.

I am just saying standardizing is what needs to take place, then everyone knows precisely what it means. Anything additional as information is just that, additional.

Light a match. How long does it burn? That defines burn time. First flame to out=burn time. Period!

Big coals and a lot to relight from, or small coals, even if only ONE small coal, yet still be able to light from. See how the water gets muddied? I’m sure you understand what I am saying.

Easy way to “fix” that issue is to standardize what burn time means. If they don’t want to standardize it, then at least let that company describe what it means to them so the buyer can make a more informed decision.

Let’s also keep things realistic. We know “exact” is a misnomer when it comes to burning with a stove.
What about cat stoves that can sit and smoulder without flames for hours while still heating the house? In addition the maximum burn time is going to vary drastically depending upon fuel used moisture content density of the load draft strength etc etc.
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
What about cat stoves that can sit and smoulder without flames for hours while still heating the house? In addition the maximum burn time is going to vary drastically depending upon fuel used moisture content density of the load draft strength etc etc.
That is exactly why there should exixt burn time tests made from independant agency, testing stoves in the same conditions according to the burning stove's design like tube, combustors... , like EPA for an example.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
That is exactly why there should exixt burn time tests made from independant agency, testing stoves in the same conditions according to the burning stove's design like tube, combustors... , like EPA for an example.
But what is burn time? To means from the time I light the stove untill it is no longer putting out enough heat to maintain temperature in my home. To others it means until it can just be relit off coals others say as long as the cat is active.
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
314
Ohio
What about cat stoves that can sit and smoulder without flames for hours while still heating the house? In addition the maximum burn time is going to vary drastically depending upon fuel used moisture content density of the load draft strength etc etc.
Ben, it’s not that hard...or at least it doesn’t have to be. If the CAT is lit the there is fuel left.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
Ben, it’s not that hard...or at least it doesn’t have to be. If the CAT is lit the there is fuel left.
But if it isn't producing heat why does it matter if the cat is active?
 

nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
But what is burn time? To means from the time I light the stove untill it is no longer putting out enough heat to maintain temperature in my home. To others it means until it can just be relit off coals others say as long as the cat is active.
The best question to as to the wood stove industry, to wood stove manufacturers.
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
314
Ohio
Does a single small coal, enough to light a fire from also not heat the room or stove? A cold wood stove with enough ashes in it can insulate enough coals to ignite new fuel yet not provide heat to the stove or the room.

Again, it’s the difference between straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Standardize what it means across the board, whatever that standard ends up being, and then if some company wants to extrapolate in addition to that, then so be it, but set the standard...end the endless debates.

The standard doesn’t have to be right, it just needs to be a baseline of information. No more, no less. The standard could be changed if need be. Just like how they changed to testing with cord wood, or LHV/HHV.

Just stepped in to make a few points.

Back to the 209a...
 
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nortcan

Feeling the Heat
Sep 9, 2016
263
Quebec
Does a single small coal, enough to light a fire from also not heat the room or stove? A cold wood stove with enough ashes in it can insulate enough coals to ignite new fuel yet not provide heat to the stove or the room.

Again, it’s the difference between straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Standardize what it means across the board, whatever that standard ends up being, and then if some company wants to extrapolate in addition to that, then so be it, but set the standard...end the endless debates.

The standard doesn’t have to be right, it just needs to be a baseline of information. No more, no less. The standard could be changed if need be. Just like how they changed to testing with cord wood, or LHV/HHV.

Just stepped in to make a few points.

Back to the 209a...
WOW, very impressive.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
Does a single small coal, enough to light a fire from also not heat the room or stove? A cold wood stove with enough ashes in it can insulate enough coals to ignite new fuel yet not provide heat to the stove or the room.

Again, it’s the difference between straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Standardize what it means across the board, whatever that standard ends up being, and then if some company wants to extrapolate in addition to that, then so be it, but set the standard...end the endless debates.

The standard doesn’t have to be right, it just needs to be a baseline of information. No more, no less. The standard could be changed if need be. Just like how they changed to testing with cord wood, or LHV/HHV.

Just stepped in to make a few points.

Back to the 209a...
I can absolutely agree there should be a standard. But honestly it still would mean nothing. It wouldn't tell you how long the stove could heat your house or even how long of a standardized burn time you would get in your house with your wood.
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
314
Ohio
We shouldn’t expect it to provide answers to the many variables, only to serve as a baseline of information. The variables are and should be things the potential stove owner and home owner should have to research on their own. Salesman could help in this area. Manufacturers could also help in this regard by providing a tag giving examples of variables.
With all the variables each home can have we shouldn’t expect the information given to cover all of that. Provide the baseline of information for burn times given the standard, give additional info such as “heat life”, etc.

Sometimes we can debate things to death and nothing gets done. Just look at our federal gubberment. LOL!

Anyway...back to the OP’s question.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,795
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Correct, a standardized burn time rating, max and min, would allow comparison between stoves and choose to match your needs. Like a furnace or a wrench.

Stove burn time ratings are always a stove specification and have never had anything to do with your home’s heating needs. The max and min burn times are determined in a lab and could be determined out in a field. The end user chooses the proper stove with the wood specifications to meet his needs. Like a wrench.

The range of outputs, which is directly related to max and min burn times, should be selected to match the range of heat demand you would like the stove to satisfy.

image.jpg
 
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