New to burning, looking for guidance

[hambaloney]

Good evening,

Growing up my dad burned with a VC stove (not sure which one) and my folks have a VC Vigilant that I've used during the winters in Vermont but only for ambiance and localized heat.

My wife and I bought an early 1900s farmhouse in southwest Virginia last year. 1600 sq ft, salt box. Has center-of-house chimney with a brick fireplace. Forced air heat pump. Electric bill made me cry so this year we've been sealing/insulating as much as we can but also want to burn wood.

Plan is to install a SS insulated liner up the chimney with a rear-flue stove. Chimney is ~23' from damper to top. After a lot of research and lurking, I decided on a Jotul 500 Oslo. I found one on CL in good condition at a very good price and brought it home. Previous owner used the short leg kit. It'll fit with standard legs (which I've ordered and installed).

Few questions -

1) The hearth worries me. It's 55" wide and 24" deep. According to the manual, I need 18" in front of the stove. I'm not sure how to accomplish this. More brick? Hearth pad? If I don't use the front door (which seems to be the general consensus when burning), do I need it?

2) The wood mantel is 13" from the top of the stove with the standard legs. What can I do to protect that?

3) The chimney sits on the top ridge of the roof, extends about 12". If the chimney extends from the ridge, does it need to be 36"+?

I'm sure I'll have more questions. Looking forward to burning this year!

THanks,
Fred

edit: added chimney height

 

[hambaloney]

re #3: According to the reference in this thread [1]: "NFPA 211 requires that the chimney be at least 3 feet higher than the point where it passes through the roof and at least 2 feet higher than any part of the roof within 10 feet measured horizontally." If I understand correctly, I will need to have 12" more of chimney above the chimney.

[1] https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...y-relining-kit-and-how-do-i-install-it.66707/

 

[hambaloney]

Here it is cleaned up and with the standard legs installed. The bottom heat shield has been removed and is sitting on the bricks.

 

[HDRock]

You could use a stove board or hearth extension in the front , http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/search/stove-boards
You can get a mantel shield if U need it . http://www.northlineexpress.com/fir...lace-smoke-guard/homesaver-mantel-shield.html
Others will chime in to give U more info

 

[firecracker_77]

Good evening,

Growing up my dad burned with a VC stove (not sure which one) and my folks have a VC Vigilant that I've used during the winters in Vermont but only for ambiance and localized heat.

My wife and I bought an early 1900s farmhouse in southwest Virginia last year. 1600 sq ft, salt box. Has center-of-house chimney with a brick fireplace. Forced air heat pump. Electric bill made me cry so this year we've been sealing/insulating as much as we can but also want to burn wood.

Plan is to install a SS insulated liner up the chimney with a rear-flue stove. Chimney is ~23' from damper to top. After a lot of research and lurking, I decided on a Jotul 500 Oslo. I found one on CL in good condition at a very good price and brought it home. Previous owner used the short leg kit. It'll fit with standard legs (which I've ordered and installed).

Few questions -

1) The hearth worries me. It's 55" wide and 24" deep. According to the manual, I need 18" in front of the stove. I'm not sure how to accomplish this. More brick? Hearth pad? If I don't use the front door (which seems to be the general consensus when burning), do I need it?

2) The wood mantel is 13" from the top of the stove with the standard legs. What can I do to protect that?

3) The chimney sits on the top ridge of the roof, extends about 12". If the chimney extends from the ridge, does it need to be 36"+?

I'm sure I'll have more questions. Looking forward to burning this year!

THanks,
Fred



edit: added chimney height

What do you mean by front door? You want to burn air tight to get maximum heat.

 

[HDRock]

What do you mean by front door? You want to burn air tight to get maximum heat.

Most people use the side loading on that stove

 

[HDRock]

If I don't use the front door (which seems to be the general consensus when burning), do I need it?

You need 18" in front even if U don't use the front door

 

[begreen]

Congratulations. That is a really nice stove, especially in blue black enamel. The hearth will need to be extended in front and to the left, loading door side to reach 18". There are several ways to do this so that it looks good. One method would be to use a modular extendable hearth system like this: http://www.hearthclassics.com/modular_hearth.php . Or you could use half brick pavers or a nice terra cotta tile border.

You can protect the mantel with a L shaped mantel shield that is a bit wider than the stove, attached with spacers to the underside of the mantel.

 

[hambaloney]

What do you mean by front door? You want to burn air tight to get maximum heat.

I wasn't clear about use of the front door. I won't be using a screen or loading from the front.

 

[hambaloney]

You need 18" in front even if U don't use the front door

Good to know, thanks!

 

[hambaloney]

Congratulations. That is a really nice stove, especially in blue black enamel. The hearth will need to be extended in front and to the left, loading door side to reach 18". There are several ways to do this so that it looks good. One method would be to use a modular extendable hearth system like this: http://www.hearthclassics.com/modular_hearth.php . Or you could use half brick pavers or a nice terra cotta tile border.

You can protect the mantel with a L shaped mantel shield that is a bit wider than the stove, attached with spacers to the underside of the mantel.

THanks. I wasn't sure what color it actually is. I picked up matte black standard legs and they don't quite match, but you'd never really know unless looking for it. Did they make a black-only enamel? Or just the blue-black. This doesn't have the blue-black appearance that i've seen before.

As for extending, good call on the left side, I didn't even think about that. I need at least 6" more although considering protecting that small alcove to the left of the stove. With something like the modular extendable hearth system, how do you tie into the existing brick (similiar to paver/terra cotta border) or would it go on top? I'm not so much worried about how it looks right now as functionality and safety are top priority.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Nick Mystic]

Welcome to the forum hambaloney. I just got a Jotul F 600 last February and have a similar set up to what you are putting together. In my situation my mantle is 22" above the top of my stove and I can tell you with yours being just 12" above your stove you will definitely need a heat shield and even then I'd monitor things closely for a time. The bottom of my mantle was getting as hot as 180 F I think when I hit it with my IR thermometer. I made my own heat shield using some sheet metal that I attached with screws every 12" and used small sections of half inch diameter copper pipe as spacers. The shield is quite effective and was a simple install.

As for the use of an insulated liner: You said that your chimney runs up the center of your house. With interior chimneys it is usually considered optional as to whether or not you insulate your liner. You might reduce some of the soot/creosote build up in your liner by insulating it, but you will also lose some of the thermal mass heating from the chimney. Since my chimney is massive, 8'x4', and runs up through the cathedral ceiling of the living room I chose to go without insulating my liner. I did, however, use a stop off plate in the fireplace opening and I did insulate the top five feet of chimney above my roofline. The heat the the SS liner gives off coupled with the heat absorbed by the brick in my chimney releases a lot of heat back into the house after the stove cools down between cycles or over night.



As you can see the F 600 has it's loading door on the opposite side from the Oslo, so I have about six feet of brick in front of the side door. My hearth extension is raised by about nine inches, while yours is about even with your floor. As you mentioned you plan to do I also do all my loading through the side door. The only times I open the front doors is to clean my glass occasionally when the stove is cold. I put an ember protection rug in front of the stove for now since there is no safety issue from heat with my raised hearth. On the F 600 the front door handle is removable, so you can't physically open the front doors when I burn since I keep the handle stored with my fireplace tools. Good luck with your install.

 

[ColdNH]

MY understanding is you only need 18" of Ember protection in front of the stove. I could definitely be wrong though, the manual is vague if you ask me.

With that said, the front door on this stove is virtually useless, its only good for viewing the fire and cleaning the stove out. if you open the front door with a fire going expect hot embers, burning logs everything to fall out. it’s frustrating.

We had two similar problems, for the ember protection we just put down a hearth matt and never use the front door. short term solution, but i refuse to rip up the wood floors. I will eventually build a more sturdy hearth extender that sits on top of the wood floor. The floor gets warm in front of the stove but not enough to worry me, at all.

As for the mantle, I built a heat shield, had a piece of copper bent and i hung it with ceramic spacers from the bottom of the mantel, it definitely works and isn’t too obtrusive. Although I had a lot more clearance then you to start with. I also have the short leg kit.

 

[ColdNH]

After lookign at your picture, you will need to extend the hearth on the side loading door. I would not feel safe with the wood that close to loading door. embers do fly out.

Here is a close up of the heat shield I built, looks way better then those pre-made ones you can order online.

 

[begreen]

THE JøTUL F 500 MUST BE INSTALLED ON A NON-COMBUSTIBLE SURFACE
EXTENDING: A MINIMUM OF 18” (457MM) IN FRONT OF THE STOVE AND THE LEFT SIDE
LOAD DOOR (MEASURED FROM THE LEGS). AND 8” (200MM) ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND BACK OF THE STOVE (MEASURED
FROM SIDE AND BACK PANELS)

 

[ColdNH]

THE JøTUL F 500 MUST BE INSTALLED ON A NON-COMBUSTIBLE SURFACE
EXTENDING: A MINIMUM OF 18” (457MM) IN FRONT OF THE STOVE AND THE LEFT SIDE
LOAD DOOR (MEASURED FROM THE LEGS). AND 8” (200MM) ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND BACK OF THE STOVE (MEASURED
FROM SIDE AND BACK PANELS)

Thanks, yes thats pretty clear for the original posters situation, but you left out this part "


4.1 Floor Protection


Floor protection under the stove must be a UL 1618 Type I Ember
Protector composed of non-combustible material for protection
from radiant heat, sparks, and embers.
Individual sections of floor protection must be mortared
together to prevent sparks from falling through to combustible
materials. Any carpeting must be removed from under the floor
protection."

Also it gets a little more confusing when talking about a raised hearth like mine. Reguardless the OP definitly needs more of a hearth pad and it looks like he could easily do it without disrupting whats already there.

 

[hambaloney]

Thanks for the replies.

ColdNH, I really like the look of your hearth. Any problems with the stove being set back into the opening?

The biggest concern right now is the hearth. It is not flush with the floor, as shown by these pictures. It's about 7/8" and then slopes down in relationship to the floor (old house, floors definitely not straight and level). I'm hesitant to tear up the wood floor without having a plan. With a modular hearth system (http://www.hearthclassics.com/modular_hearth.php), would it be possible to lay it on top of the wood floor and mortar it to the brick? The 3/4" trim in front of the bricks is going to be removed. I thought about purchasing a hearth pad from someplace like TSC and sitting the stove on it, on top of the brick. I think that would work although it might not be as eye-pleasing.

THanks

 

[hambaloney]

Always works better if I upload said images.

 

[hambaloney]

Welcome to the forum hambaloney. I just got a Jotul F 600 last February and have a similar set up to what you are putting together. In my situation my mantle is 22" above the top of my stove and I can tell you with yours being just 12" above your stove you will definitely need a heat shield and even then I'd monitor things closely for a time. The bottom of my mantle was getting as hot as 180 F I think when I hit it with my IR thermometer. I made my own heat shield using some sheet metal that I attached with screws every 12" and used small sections of half inch diameter copper pipe as spacers. The shield is quite effective and was a simple install.

As for the use of an insulated liner: You said that your chimney runs up the center of your house. With interior chimneys it is usually considered optional as to whether or not you insulate your liner. You might reduce some of the soot/creosote build up in your liner by insulating it, but you will also lose some of the thermal mass heating from the chimney. Since my chimney is massive, 8'x4', and runs up through the cathedral ceiling of the living room I chose to go without insulating my liner. I did, however, use a stop off plate in the fireplace opening and I did insulate the top five feet of chimney above my roofline. The heat the the SS liner gives off coupled with the heat absorbed by the brick in my chimney releases a lot of heat back into the house after the stove cools down between cycles or over night.

View attachment 111081

As you can see the F 600 has it's loading door on the opposite side from the Oslo, so I have about six feet of brick in front of the side door. My hearth extension is raised by about nine inches, while yours is about even with your floor. As you mentioned you plan to do I also do all my loading through the side door. The only times I open the front doors is to clean my glass occasionally when the stove is cold. I put an ember protection rug in front of the stove for now since there is no safety issue from heat with my raised hearth. On the F 600 the front door handle is removable, so you can't physically open the front doors when I burn since I keep the handle stored with my fireplace tools. Good luck with your install.

Nick, thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards insulating to be on the safe side. I suspect it'd be alright without it, but I really have no idea. I don't quite have the mass of a chimney that you do, it narrows once it gets to the second floor to slightly larger than the flue size (8x13 terra cotta). At the very least, I'll do a block off plate with insulation and insulate around the top.

 

[begreen]

The difference in slopes makes the hearth extension a bit more challenging. One idea would be to get some sheet metal (could be copper or painted steel) and make your extension out of that. For extra protection put a layer of 1/4" hardibacker under it and have the edges hemmed (folded over the backer).

 

[hambaloney]

The difference in slopes makes the hearth extension a bit more challenging. One idea would be to get some sheet metal (could be copper or painted steel) and make your extension out of that. For extra protection put a layer of 1/4" hardibacker under it and have the edges hemmed (folded over the backer).

Nice and simple. Question - how can I tie it to the brick so there's no gap? Cement?

 

[begreen]

A flexible caulk like a black silicone should work.

 

[hambaloney]

A flexible caulk like a black silicone should work.

Going to work on that. Thanks for the info.

New questions -

1) Any way to determine the color by markings or label on the Oslo? I don't see anything on the label that might indicate color other than the serial.

2) There are several online vendors for chimney liners. Any recommendations or preferences? The 2 options I've looked at are Flex King from chimneylinerdepot.com and the kits at rockfordchimneysupply.com. Do the smooth wall liners make a big difference in buildup?

I'm still not sure about insulating the liner, though leaning towards it to be on the safe side. I'll be up on the roof this weekend making final measurements so I can order the liner. I'd like to get this installed and tested before it actually starts getting chilly.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

That is blue/black enamel for sure. You can tell by the satin finish. Look at the model or serial number and see if it ends with something like BB. I'll let the folks that have these liners comment on them. Both are good companies from what I know.

 

[hambaloney]

That is blue/black enamel for sure. You can tell by the satin finish. Look at the model or serial number and see if it ends with something like BB. I'll let the folks that have these liners comment on them. Both are good companies from what I know.

Not that I don't believe you, but I honestly didn't think it was blue/black enamel. I thought it was just plain black. I guess they don't make a black enamel. That's fantastic! Anyways, nothing on the serial or model number is helpful.