New to burning - need advice with Mansfield

[ctiberi]

Hey All,

My Wife and I purchased a house in Nov with a fairly newer Mansfield in the finished basement. The previous owner had a ducting system and fan installed inthe wall above the stove that distributes the warm air to the first floor. It seems to work pretty well when the stove is going well.

Thats the issue here, I cant seem to get what I think is good heat out of the stove.... and it seems to go through wood at an incredible pace. I have already burned 2 cords since Dec 1st! which seems like a lot to me. I only fire it up when I get home from work and load it up for an overnight burn. I dont burn it during the day.

I have a burn indicator on the pipe, I cant seem to get it to go much above 300. I typically leave the primary air control wide open and it still does not go above 300.


Should I be more concerned with the stove top temp?
Should I be closing the primary air control down to achieve what I heard is a "secondary Burn"

Should I consider burning 24/7, is that more efficient with these slow to heat soapstone stoves.

Help!! - I read the manual but it doesnt seem to spell out all the tips and tricks.

Sorry for all the questions like I said I am new to heating with wood, but I want to get the most out of it.

Thanks

 

[AndyD1480]

hmmm... I'm certainly not a professional but as a recent purchaser of a Hearthstone Heritage (the one just small than the Mansfield) I can say you should probably provide a little more info. Such as, how much flame are you getting? Is the wood burning really hot and fast inside the fire box? How long do you typically leave the primary air open wide? This info will help the pros.

With that said:

- I typically go by my stove top temp. Below 300 on the stovetop, and you can barely tell its burning wood. Over 300 and especially over 400-500, and you'll really really feel the heat

- Soapstone does run better 24/7 but there are ways around that. Basically you want to try and not run it from a dead stop. If you can load it up over night to the point where you have hot coals in the morning, you'll also realize that your soapstone is still 200 degrees (even 150 will help). Basically its holding in some heat, and will take less time to get back up over 300 or 400.

 

[ctiberi]

Thanks for the Reply Burning Chunk

- I typically get a good amount of flame once it gets going. - very seldom is the entire firebox engulfed though.
- Once it gets going the wood does seem to burn pretty fast - I try tto load it up as much as possible and it seems like it needs to be reloaded in 2 hours
- I have been keeping the primary air control wide open the entire time as when I turn it down it seems as though the flames die out.

-The chimney is stainless steel enclosed in the house and is about 30 feet in vertical length.

 

[ansehnlich1]

If I were you I'd have a professional come in to inspect this setup. It very well may be hazardous having a "ducting system and fan" installed to move heat from one level of a home to another. In fact, in my new construction home, all passages from one floor to another by code had to be sealed with firestop caulking.

Were a fire to break out, or carbon monoxide to be present, this system of ducting air may very well be catastrophic, as it would promote the movement of fire/carbon monoxide, right into the upstairs living area.

I must say I am uncertain as to the setup and so, you should likely have a PRO come to inspect it for safety.

As far as the soapstone, these stoves are best if run 24/7. You may not be getting the heat out of it because you are running with the air wide open all the time and losing a large percentage of heat up the chimney. Try a nice stove top thermometer, and read the instructions for burning this stove in the Mansfield Owners/Operating Manual found here:

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/documents/Mansfield8011Manual.pdf)

 

[Highbeam]

I have a heritage as well. I am leaning towards wet wood and a high draft condition. You really shouldn't need to leave the draft wide open for very long at all, just to get things going. The manual says wide open for 1/2 hour to heat things up. Does the wood hiss or bubble? Are you using big chunks or small?

Stove top temp is most important for getting the stove in the heat production zone and to prevent overheating the stove.

 

[swestall]

Hello, first if you want to use that ducting system then, at minimum, you should have a firestop damper installed in it; that will shut off if any fire begins to move through it and elevates the temp. Also, you do need to have appropriate CO and smoke detectors on all levels. (esp. bedroom level) I do believe it is off code and could easily make any fire inspector go nuts on you.

Now for the Mansfield, it is cold blooded so you need to get it hot to make it work. That means loading it before you leave, when you get back and overnight; 24/7. The stovetop temp is important to you, as much so as the flue temp. A 300 stack temp most likely means you are getting it up to about 450-500 when you are burning. Which is a good range to burn in. You should not burn past 550 or so, stovetop; although you can get it up to approaching 600. (there is another thread about this going on now.)

Now for controls, you only should have it wide open to get the wood charred, once you get good flames, go down to about 1/2-1/4 damper and then after a while go to full closed. If your flames die down then go back to 1/2 and re-establish the flames and try again; once you get use to it you will have no problem with this. When you are closed the secondary fire will be burning away and you will be getting the most efficient burn/heat from the stove. You will see either flames floating at the top of the stove or the burn tubes will look like gas burners. (actually they feed O2 to burn the gasses in the stove, it just looks like a burner)

Soapstone is a long burn stove, you get it up to temp and keep it burning; it keeps the house warm in a continuous manner. Having said that, you will get peaks and valleys. After an all night burn your temp will drop down by perhaps 10 degrees, then you bring it back up. Experimentation is the best teacher here. You will learn to burn. Since this sounds like your first stove, that is good because you don't have anything to un-learn. Cast and Steel stoves are very different; they get hot quick and cool down as quick. But all today's stoves are very efficient. You have one of the best. Once you get use to it you will love it. But, don't expect the same get the room hot in a short time start. They do take about an hour to two to get hot (you've experienced that) and they then continue to put the heat out for a few hours when the fire dies down. The trick is to learn the cycle and feed the stove in sync with it.

And, you have not burned that much wood, it has been pretty cold in these parts. The real quesion is how much of that oil/gas have you not burned because you burned the wood? If you figure the cost differential for the wood vs. alternatives you will see how beneficial this is.

As far as chimney's that is an entirely different topic. Perhaps you can post some info about your chimney.

 

[struggle]

Buy one of these today. (broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/meters.html)

Install a pipe dampner about 18' above the stove. 30' long chimney is to long and it needs a dampner. YOu are having overdraft issues and all the heat or a lot of it is going up the chimney.

LIke others said after the wood is charred you need to reduce primary air off and if you had a inline dampner you would then close it half way back as well.

A probe thermometer should be installed above the dampner about 8" or furthur up in the pipe. THis will give you the most info about how much heat is going up the chimney and you will see how the heat changes in relation to how the controls are set for the stove.

Also wet wood burns cool and very soft wood will burn fast.

I second getting apro to look at the set up thought as well.

Can you post some pictures of the current set up. What size is the flue pipe 8" or 6" as you have a 6" exit on the stove.

 

[ctiberi]

Thanks for all the advice!

I contacted the previos owner and he informed me that the ducting system does indeed have a fire damper. I also have house wide interconnected smoke alarms and CO detectors. Although it may not meet fire code I feel it is pretty safe at this point.

I think I have come to the conclusion that I have wet wood ( my wife says that sounds like a personal problem ;-) ) THe wood does hiss and occasionaly bubble out of the ends. SO I guess that would explain all of the issues I am having.
Since we bought the house in Dec, I could not season my wood and had to rely on purchasing what was claimed to be "Seasoned wood" .....I guess I got lied to.

I need to order more wood ASAP... Any advice on how to purchase wood that is usable immediatley?

Any recomendations for wood in RI area

 

[raybonz]

Thanks for all the advice!

I contacted the previos owner and he informed me that the ducting system does indeed have a fire damper. I also have house wide interconnected smoke alarms and CO detectors. Although it may not meet fire code I feel it is pretty safe at this point.

I think I have come to the conclusion that I have wet wood ( my wife says that sounds like a personal problem ;-) ) THe wood does hiss and occasionaly bubble out of the ends. SO I guess that would explain all of the issues I am having.
Since we bought the house in Dec, I could not season my wood and had to rely on purchasing what was claimed to be "Seasoned wood" .....I guess I got lied to.

I need to order more wood ASAP... Any advice on how to purchase wood that is usable immediatley?

Any recomendations for wood in RI area

Wet or green wood is probably correct. Check your newspaper under firewood for seasoned firewood dealers in your area.. Those are nice looking stoves post a pic when you have a chance..

Good luck,
Ray

 

[stoncold]

Verrier tree has kiln dried firewood, maybe you could grab some of that (1/2 cord or so) and mix that with the wood you have. It's a little pricy, though.

 

[ctiberi]

I looked for a local wood dealer when I bought my first 2 cords it was said to be seasoned, however It still bubbles and hiss'
Is it possible for wood to be seasoned and still wet? i.e. if they left it uncovered for 8 -12 months while seasoning it ?

I Called verrier before they want like 400 a cord for kiln dried, maybe I will call them again thats who the previous owner recommended as well. I am almost totally out of wood right now so I will need in my estimation 1.5 cords to make it through the winter. I plan on buying 4 cords of green wood in the spring for next year. Also need to build a wood shed....

Here are the pics of the stove

 

[raybonz]

Nice looking stove you have there! That came with your house? Pretty sure those go for about 2 grand..

Ray

 

[struggle]

RI

Make sure to measure the distance between the top of your single wall pipe and the false ceiling as I am pretty sure you need to have a minimum clearnace of 18" on single wall pipe. If not meeting that distance then a heat sheild needs to go over the pipe you have that is that close to a combustiable surface.

Someone can maybe find the code on that and post it.

Looks like a nice set up.

 

[begreen]

That's correct, the ceiling clearance looks too close.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I looked for a local wood dealer when I bought my first 2 cords it was said to be seasoned, however It still bubbles and hiss'
Is it possible for wood to be seasoned and still wet? i.e. if they left it uncovered for 8 -12 months while seasoning it ?

I Called verrier before they want like 400 a cord for kiln dried, maybe I will call them again thats who the previous owner recommended as well. I am almost totally out of wood right now so I will need in my estimation 1.5 cords to make it through the winter. I plan on buying 4 cords of green wood in the spring for next year. Also need to build a wood shed....

Here are the pics of the stove

If the wood is just wet from being outside, it will dry out pretty quickly. The stuff that sizzles and doesn't burn well just isn't seasoned enough for these modern stoves. You didn't necessarily get lied to. People who sell cordwood have a vast range of definitions for "seasoned," and stuff that isn't anywhere near ready for my stove (Hearthstone Tribute) apparently does just fine in the big older and more forgiving cast iron stoves most people around here have. I have a neighbor who happily takes down a tree from his woodlot, cuts it up and burns it right away when he runs low on firewood. Arrgh.

I've gotten "seasoned" wood from two different guys so far this winter. One cut down some trees this spring and left them in the woods, then pulled them out and cut them up a few days before delivering to me. Beautiful stuff, completely unusuable in my stove this year. The second guy proudly told me he cut and split his in spring and left it in an open field all summer to dry. Problem is, he left it in a big pile, so only the pieces that were on the outside are anything close to seasoned. The folks on this forum tell me the wood doesn't even start drying out until it's been split and stacked.

Where are you storing your wood supply? If it's outside, it helps a lot to bring in a few days supply at a time to let it warm up, even if it isn't wet.

That second lot of mixed "pile-seasoned" wood I got in mid-winter was not just sopping wet but loaded with ice, but that wet disappears in a couple of weeks in my enclosed but well ventilated woodshed, or in a couple of days loosely stacked on plastic boot trays inside the house. A few hours to a half a day if I lay the pieces out around the outside of the hearth, but you don't want to do that if you aren't able to keep an eye on it.

One thing that really does help with less than perfectly seasoned wood is to split it down pretty far. The smaller pieces burn much better. The big ones just char around the outside and then sit there and sulk.

My biggest problem is getting a really hot initial fire going. Once that's roaring, even the stuff that sizzles burns pretty well. But getting there with the wood I have isn't easy, so I've resorted to buying compressed sawdust logs (no wax) and using one of those to start things off in the morning. They burn easily and hot and will ignite the wood.

Lastly, turn that air intake down! It's counterintuitive to me, but it does work to somehow simultaneously slow down the burn and boost the stove temperature. (The guys here can explain why better than I can.) You need a good hot initial fire with an open intake for 20 min. to a half hour, I've been told, to warm up the chimney and get the draft working well. But after that, the advice I've gotten here which has worked superbly for me is to turn down halfway when the wood is well-charred, and then by degrees several more times every 10 or 15 or so until it's completely or almost completely closed.

Following that advice and the tactics above, I can now reliably get my little Tribute up to 400 fairly quickly and keep it there.

Once you figure it all out -- and get some good wood -- you're going to love that stove!

 

[ctiberi]

Thanks for the replies everyone!!

YOur right the clearance between the pipe and the drop ceiling is about 12". Can I purchase fire retardant ceiling panels and install those? I really dont feel like moving the entire pipe....

Thanks for all the help with getting the secondary burn going!! Bought a little kiln dried wood from the store and mixed it with my crappy wet wood last night. Got that going goo and turned down the air control half way and got the stove top up to a peak of 550 seemed to hover around 450 for the most part.

Still need to order more wood... and stack it

Thanks again

 

[swestall]

It will cost you a bit more, but look into changing your pipe to double wall stainless. The clearance is less and it has a lifetime warrantee.
Can someone here chime in on the exact code clearance for doublewall to the ceiling as I don't have it handy.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Double wall connector pipe clearance is 6" to both walls and ceilings

 

[swestall]

Thanks Tom, and there is your solution, new pipe, safer, and more than adequate clearance not to mention lifetime warrantee.

 

[loneeagle15]

when you get your stove figured out you will love it this our first year burning wood and we love our Mansfield but she defiantly likes to run 24/7 not just the occasional fire