New to pellet stoves, question about needs/size

[Wizzer]

Hi all. I am considering a Harman XXV as I really like the look of the stove and reviews seem really positive. However, I would like to know if this size stove would be sufficient considering the following floor plan...I am going to place to stove at the upper left wall on first floor as detailed below (left wall of family room/breakfast room/kitchen great room), either centered on wall (below tv) or in the upper corner. Are these good locations?.
First floor:


Second floor:





I currently heat the home with an electric heat pump, typically at a thermostat setting of 68 in the winter. Wife complains as the heat pump doesn't really put out a "warm" air and she constantly "feels" cold. I can't complain as to the cost of running the heat pump, as in WV electricity is relatively inexpensive. Sadly, I will probably never be able to recoup the cost of the pellet stove and install (approximately $4500 from what I understand) along with the cost of pellets (maybe 1-2 tons a year?) in comparison to the electric heat pump. However, the "warmth" the pellet stove will provide will be worth the added cost. As well as the comfort in knowing I can heat my house in the advent of a power outage (which occur at least annually for extended days).

Just wanted to hear opinions from the collective knowledge base here prior to going to the local installer for their opinion. Given the floor plans, would the stove heat the primary floor well? would the heat travel up to help heat the 2nd story? House is situated on a 9 foot solid pour concrete basement. I do not plan on heating the basement over what the heat pump now provides. House built in 2008 and relatively good construction, well insulated. Current electricity usage is around 15k kilowatt hours for the whole year, all inclusive. House is 2750 square feet plus 1250 square foot basement.

Thanks so much if you made it through this long post. I appreciate any insight as I am completely new to pellet stoves and would love to make the right choices!

 

[Big papa]

The xxv would in my opinion help heat your home but not entirely by itself. It's rated for 900 to 2300 square feet.your first floor would be pretty warm but up and down stairs would be cooler

 

[Big papa]

The p68 is rated to heat 3900 square feet for about $100 more that would be the way I would go for your size of home. Or a p61 rated to heat 3500 square feet it is $200 cheaper than the xxv and its a heating powerhouse

 

[yrock87]

honestly if you are going for suplemental warmth only, dont worry about uppting to a bigger stove. the XXV will heat your main floor well. no stove is going to keep your upstairs warm with your house layout. also you will be keeping your heat pump on normally right? so you are really just looking for 10-15k of suplemental heat in the room you use the most. Go with a smaller stove that you like and fits your other needs (astetics from the sounds of it) the XXV sounds perfect for what you are looking for. maybe bigger than you need really. also keep in mind that pellet stoves require electricity. if you are looking for backup heat in an outage maybe you would consider a wood stove or a gas insert considering you are not looking to go through a lot of fuel based on your needs.

 

[dlehneman]

One thing to keep in mind is that you said "heat my house in the event of a power outage", you would need a battery backup system to accomplish that and it would have to be pretty substantial to last for days, not just hours. Probably an inverter also, but not sure off the top of my head if the XXV is configured to run off 12v like the Mt Vernon is?

 

[Big papa]

honestly if you are going for suplemental warmth only, dont worry about uppting to a bigger stove. the XXV will heat your main floor well. no stove is going to keep your upstairs warm with your house layout. also you will be keeping your heat pump on normally right? so you are really just looking for 10-15k of suplemental heat in the room you use the most. Go with a smaller stove that you like and fits your other needs (astetics from the sounds of it) the XXV sounds perfect for what you are looking for. maybe bigger than you need really. also keep in mind that pellet stoves require electricity. if you are looking for backup heat in an outage maybe you would consider a wood stove or a gas insert considering you are not looking to go through a lot of fuel based on your needs.

Wizzer aske if it would heat his first floor and also send heat upstairs?

 

[alternativeheat]

If your wife is cold have you tried turning the thermostat up to 70 ? I assume you have zones, so maybe not the whole house but the living area you are in most.

If you do put in a pellet stove then turn the heat up anyway. The heat pump will barely run but the colder areas will be warmer than by stove alone. I used to do this with my coal stove. it was a bit undersized or under efficient for our house, had no convection fan. But it sure cut the oil bill to shreds. Our P61A does the whole place though, the oil is just on for our tenants apartment.

 

[yrock87]

Wizzer aske if it would heat his first floor and also send heat upstairs?

based on the layout i

If your wife is cold have you tried turning the thermostat up to 70 ? I assume you have zones, so maybe not the whole house but the living area you are in most.

If you do put in a pellet stove then turn the heat up anyway. The heat pump will barely run but the colder areas will be warmer than by stove alone. I used to do this with my coal stove. it was a bit undersized or under efficient for our house, had no convection fan. But it sure cut the oil bill to shreds. Our P61A does the whole place though, the oil is just on for our tenants apartment.

i agree. use the heatpump and just suplement with a pellet stove. it will provide that nice warm feeling and it will cut some use on the heat pump, and since the heatpump is going to be cheaper than pellets, you should only go through a ton or so opposed to the 4+ that full pellet heaters use.

and yes, i agree with your locations. that corner install particularly looks like it would blow straight to your stairwell. remember that pellet stoves are convection not radient, and they convect straight forward.

 

[alternativeheat]

based on the layout i

remember that pellet stoves are convection not radient, and they convect straight forward.

Most are convection only or largely. My P61A though gives off a good dose of radiant heat as well as convection. I'd venture to guess about 40% radiant actually. This allows me to run the blower on high in the cold weather and push the convection across the room and out the large archway there that leads upstairs but get radiant heat for nearer the stove. If I had a heat pump though this might be different, I might have a P43 running on medium in that case. I don't know of anyone using heat pumps in our area of New England though. There must be someone but I don't know them.

 

[Jocko1]

P 68 for that house. Then only use heat pump when it's over 35 degrees. This will save you money the stove will pay for itself un a few years.

 

[Wizzer]

Thank you all for the replies so far. Let me try to answer some of the comments so far:

The xxv would in my opinion help heat your home but not entirely by itself.

I fully understand. I will utilize my heat pump as the primary heat source. The pellet stove will be supplemental. My location has average lows of 25-30 degrees (with dips into the single digits). I would utilize the pellet stove as additional heat source on the colder days but the heat pump would carry the primary load (virtually all) on days above 30 degrees.

also you will be keeping your heat pump on normally right? so you are really just looking for 10-15k of suplemental heat in the room you use the most.

Yes this is correct. Economically, with my electric costs per kwh, I can't expect the pellet stove to compete with the heat pump. I will still utilize it as the primary heat source and use the pellet stove to "take the chill out" of the room.

One thing to keep in mind is that you said "heat my house in the event of a power outage", you would need a battery backup system to accomplish that and it would have to be pretty substantial to last for days, not just hours.

I plan on purchasing a battery backup for safe stove shut-down the event of a power outage while I am at work, but when I would come home, I would connect the stove to a generator if heat is needed (which in the winter I am sure will be the case). I have a small sine wave generator (Honda eu2000) that will be sufficient to run the fridge and pellet stove, the only 2 items I am primarily concerned with.

If your wife is cold have you tried turning the thermostat up to 70 ? I assume you have zones, so maybe not the whole house but the living area you are in most.

Unfortunately with a heat pump, you never have a warm air coming from the vents. The air is typically the temperature of the thermostat setting, so a heat pump house always has that cool feeling regardless of the temperature. Our initial winter in the home was our first ever utilizing a heat pump. Even at a 75 degree setting, my wife was chilled. I found her shivers were brought on by the nature of the heat pump as opposed to the actual temperature in the house. In addition, our house was only set up with 1 zone. I would love to change that, which will be on the horizon hopefully.

if you are looking for backup heat in an outage maybe you would consider a wood stove or a gas insert

I would love a wood stove, but the wife has outlawed that from the house. In addition, the cost for chimney would be prohibitive. My house has a hip style roof, which adds almost an additional floor level to the attic. I had considered the outdoor boiler, but again, in a power outage, I can power the pellet stove easier than the outdoor boiler (not to mention I don't have to go outside to feed it). However, the plus for a wood burning heat source would be the wood. I have easy enough access to free wood just steps outside my back door.

Gas is out. Natural gas is unavailable in my location. I would prefer not to go the propane route, I see it as the worst of the three options (pellet, wood, propane).



My goals are:

1. Secondary heat source that will allow me to keep the family warm during a power outage.
2. Secondary heat source to take the chill out of the house.
3. Aesthetics (who doesn't like looking at a fire?).
4. Secondary heat source that will allow me to NOT run the emergency heat strips on the heat pump (this is where the heat pump economics fail. $$$).


My wife also liked the idea of creating a stone "fake fireplace" (using direct vent outside) and using the Harman Accentra 52i at the left wall location and placing the TV over it. I am unsure if this would be a good idea, but she showed me a pic online of that set-up and it looked great, just not sure it is what we should be considering.

Again, thank you all for the responses so far. I am trying hard to reason this by viewing all angles.

 

[yrock87]

I am heading my entire house with my p43 and it has been dropping down to 20 at night. The stove will not be able to keep my 10 year old 2000 sqft house up to temp on the middle of an Alaska winter, but if it on my gets down to 10 *f

Thank you all for the replies so far. Let me try to answer some of the comments so far:




I fully understand. I will utilize my heat pump as the primary heat source. The pellet stove will be supplemental. My location has average lows of 25-30 degrees (with dips into the single digits). I would utilize the pellet stove as additional heat source on the colder days but the heat pump would carry the primary load (virtually all) on days above 30 degrees.




Yes this is correct. Economically, with my electric costs per kwh, I can't expect the pellet stove to compete with the heat pump. I will still utilize it as the primary heat source and use the pellet stove to "take the chill out" of the room.




I plan on purchasing a battery backup for safe stove shut-down the event of a power outage while I am at work, but when I would come home, I would connect the stove to a generator if heat is needed (which in the winter I am sure will be the case). I have a small sine wave generator (Honda eu2000) that will be sufficient to run the fridge and pellet stove, the only 2 items I am primarily concerned with.




Unfortunately with a heat pump, you never have a warm air coming from the vents. The air is typically the temperature of the thermostat setting, so a heat pump house always has that cool feeling regardless of the temperature. Our initial winter in the home was our first ever utilizing a heat pump. Even at a 75 degree setting, my wife was chilled. I found her shivers were brought on by the nature of the heat pump as opposed to the actual temperature in the house. In addition, our house was only set up with 1 zone. I would love to change that, which will be on the horizon hopefully.




I would love a wood stove, but the wife has outlawed that from the house. In addition, the cost for chimney would be prohibitive. My house has a hip style roof, which adds almost an additional floor level to the attic. I had considered the outdoor boiler, but again, in a power outage, I can power the pellet stove easier than the outdoor boiler (not to mention I don't have to go outside to feed it). However, the plus for a wood burning heat source would be the wood. I have easy enough access to free wood just steps outside my back door.

Gas is out. Natural gas is unavailable in my location. I would prefer not to go the propane route, I see it as the worst of the three options (pellet, wood, propane).



My goals are:

1. Secondary heat source that will allow me to keep the family warm during a power outage.
2. Secondary heat source to take the chill out of the house.
3. Aesthetics (who doesn't like looking at a fire?).
4. Secondary heat source that will allow me to NOT run the emergency heat strips on the heat pump (this is where the heat pump economics fail. $$$).


My wife also liked the idea of creating a stone "fake fireplace" (using direct vent outside) and using the Harman Accentra 52i at the left wall location and placing the TV over it. I am unsure if this would be a good idea, but she showed me a pic online of that set-up and it looked great, just not sure it is what we should be considering.

Again, thank you all for the responses so far. I am trying hard to reason this by viewing all angles.

Sounds like you have thought this through pretty well. I think that the advice that I hear about buying 2 of 3 electric space hearers and setting them where you want them may not be a bad idea. Gives you an idea of what you think of the heat. Granted, pellet stove are convention primarily, vs radiant with most electric heaters, but you get the idea.
I think you will be surprised at how little hest you are going to need. Really only need an extra 10k btu(or there abouts) in the downstairs and even for your whole house I think something in the 40 range would suffice. I have a P43 that has been working at about 30% to keep my 10 year old 2000 sqft house warm when it is 20-40 outside over the past week. (20 at night and into the 30s in the day) granted,i intentionally undersized my stove for peak hearing season due to cost and ROI issues. But i have confidence that I will keep the boiler in check untill it hits about 0 degrees F.
Heat flow seems to be the biggest issues, not horsepower. Hence my suggestion of going for a smaller unit that you like based on ascetics as well, not just going for a powerhouse or workhorse. I really would try to line it up with your staircase though. by anyone's standards, more than 50% of the heat will blow straight out forward for those power outage situations. Or you could just camp out in the living room together!

Once again, good luck on your decision. Hope my two cents was helpful. Please keep us informed when you pill the trigger.

 

[DBCOOPER]

75 is 75 if its coming from a heat pump, pellet stove or oil burner.Building a fake fire place and putting a big screen over top works just fine. Pulling it out to service it is a bit of a PITA but it worked for me.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

You may be surprised at just how much heat your stove produces, and the effect this has on your thermostat. We bought our first stove to heat a family room with cathedral ceiling and much glass. But the stove heats most of the house on its own, and we added a second in our basement office last year. Now, the heat pump sometimes goes weeks without turning on! The only downside is that our upstairs rooms can be just slightly cool, because we also have only one zone, and the thermostat is located in a hallway not far from the stove room. We like that, but some may not.

Our heat pump is sometimes a less expensive source of heat (temps in 50s, for example) but the stove feels sooo much better.

 

[Wizzer]

I placed my order for the Harman XXV. Will be putting it in the corner location mentioned in the first post. Expected install within 2 weeks. Feel like I got a good deal, but I know these prices really are location dependent. Also ordered 2 tons of Hamer's to be delivered with the stove. Out the door price for all including pad, OAK, and pellets was $4500.

Excited to get it installed. Feel like a kid waiting on Christmas morning.

 

[PELLETCONVERT]

You may be surprised at just how much heat your stove produces, and the effect this has on your thermostat. We bought our first stove to heat a family room with cathedral ceiling and much glass. But the stove heats most of the house on its own, and we added a second in our basement office last year. Now, the heat pump sometimes goes weeks without turning on! The only downside is that our upstairs rooms can be just slightly cool, because we also have only one zone, and the thermostat is located in a hallway not far from the stove room. We like that, but some may not.

Our heat pump is sometimes a less expensive source of heat (temps in 50s, for example) but the stove feels sooo much better.

Wilbur,

Same with us, installed ours on the first level of a split level home (family room), woke up the first night we had it running last year because we were too hot, even in the back bedrooms, ours run 2-4 degrees warmer upstairs than in the area of the stove, took some experimenting, but now have it set to control this issue

 

[Big papa]

Welcome to the harman gang!let us know when it's installed

 

[Wilbur Feral]

I placed my order for the Harman XXV. Will be putting it in the corner location mentioned in the first post. Expected install within 2 weeks. Feel like I got a good deal, but I know these prices really are location dependent. Also ordered 2 tons of Hamer's to be delivered with the stove. Out the door price for all including pad, OAK, and pellets was $4500.

Excited to get it installed. Feel like a kid waiting on Christmas morning.

Congrats! Just in time for the cooler weather. BTW, I'm a native Mountaineer myself. Always nice to see folks from home on a board. I often miss the state.

 

[yrock87]

Congrats! I'm sure you and your wife will be loving the heat off your new stove!

 

[acowherd]

The XXV is choice!

Just as a reference. ...
(broken image removed)

Had this one in an unfinished basment...cranking in the winter. I had a heat pump, but felt like the AC was on in the winter time. I did have NG as backup on my heat pump. For when it got less then 25 outside.