New vs. Old stove comparisons

[boisblancboy]

I have what might be a really dumb question, but I am wondering what is making the new stoves really so much better than the older ones. I know they burn up the gases more which create less emissions and also keep your chimney cleaner. But are they really more efficient? Since pipe dampers are used as much dont you lose more heat up the chimney? Do the newer stoves burn less wood overall than the old ones to heat the same space?

Thanks

Brandon

 

[BrotherBart]

The re-burn of gases that used to go up the chimney creates more heat from less wood. Pretty much like modern fuel injection and combustion technology get more horsepower out of smaller engines while using less gasoline.

I didn't believe it until I replaced my old stove and still heat the same space to warmer temps and wood consumption went down from five to six cords a winter to three and change. Some of the gain has been from burning drier wood also. It all has been an unexpected result of the mandate for cleaner burning stoves. More heat and cleaner chimneys just happened. They didn't plan it that way. The EPA was just interested in cleaning up the emissions.

 

[summit]

thats right, bb! at the same time, ithink the new stove kinda force you to burn differently (dry wood, smaller, hotter fire for daily use ) which also helps.. kinda like a stove reducation.

 

[Yagminas Masonry and Wood-heat]

New stoves are a lot better but the chimney is the most important performance factor.

 

[begreen]

I almost agree, but would add it's the operator ultimately or as they say in the car world, it's the nut behind the wheel. A good flue + a good stove work wonderfully. That is unless a fool tries to burn wet wood and choke down the stove the moment it gets burning well. Then it's neither the flue nor the stove that is the problem.

 

[burntime]

More heat with less wood. Oh, and cleaner. Whats not to like! :cheese:

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I have what might be a really dumb question, but I am wondering what is making the new stoves really so much better than the older ones. I know they burn up the gases more which create less emissions and also keep your chimney cleaner. But are they really more efficient? Since pipe dampers are used as much dont you lose more heat up the chimney? Do the newer stoves burn less wood overall than the old ones to heat the same space?

Thanks

Brandon

Brandon, those are some excellent questions and you've got some excellent answers too.

You state that pipe dampers are used as much but in this point I think you might be mistaken. They used to be used 100% and now very few use them. I wish I knew what the percentage is. And after reading through some posts I am certain that many dampers are installed where they are not needed.

And about losing more heat up the chimney, absolutely not! Our chimney runs very cool all winter long. So cool we were at first afraid of creosote problems. It was an unwarranted fear.

Your very last question is the best of all: " Do the newer stoves burn less wood overall than the old ones to heat the same space?"

We used to burn from 6 to 7 cords of wood per winter. Two years ago we installed the Fireview and we've burned 3 cords in both of the last two winters with last winter being the coldest one we've had in a long time. So not only do we burn only half the amount of wood we used to but we stay much, much warmer in the house. It is amazing the difference this stove has made.

 

[boisblancboy]

Thanks guys for all the responses. I did mean to say pipe dampers ARENT used as much, sorry. All this new information is really interesting to me and the more I learn the more excited I am to get my new stove and start burning. This year though is the only year I might run into a problem with burning green wood. I do have, im guessing, about 6-8 face cord of dried maple. But I do have some other stuff already cut and split so it would be later in the winter once I got to that im hoping.

I almost agree, but would add it's the operator ultimately or as they say in the car world, it's the nut behind the wheel. A good flue + a good stove work wonderfully. That is unless a fool tries to burn wet wood and choke down the stove the moment it gets burning well. Then it's neither the flue nor the stove that is the problem.

When is the optimal time to choke the stove down?

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks guys for all the responses. I did mean to say pipe dampers ARENT used as much, sorry. All this new information is really interesting to me and the more I learn the more excited I am to get my new stove and start burning. This year though is the only year I might run into a problem with burning green wood. I do have, im guessing, about 6-8 face cord of dried maple. But I do have some other stuff already cut and split so it would be later in the winter once I got to that im hoping.

I almost agree, but would add it's the operator ultimately or as they say in the car world, it's the nut behind the wheel. A good flue + a good stove work wonderfully. That is unless a fool tries to burn wet wood and choke down the stove the moment it gets burning well. Then it's neither the flue nor the stove that is the problem.

When is the optimal time to choke the stove down?

I didn't quite believe the "hype" I was reading about the "new" stoves until I purchased my own . . . and I was pleased to see that in fact it does burn less wood than I expected and burned a lot cleaner than I thought even if I didn't have the best wood available. However, you can't believe everything you read . . . at least from the manufacturers . . . heating space specs and burn time numbers don't always tell the whole story (i.e. Brand X Stove may heat Y square footage in lab tests, but it does not factor in your climate, insulation, house lay-out, etc. . . . and "burn time" is a very subjective number.)

As for your follow-up question . . . for me I begin to dial down the air once the fire is established . . . this varies according to the wood I've loaded . . . but usually I figure 15-20 minutes after lighting . . . and even then I dial it down in incremental steps . . . with my stove if you close off too much air too early you will virtually snuff out the fire.

 

[Jags]

When is the optimal time to choke the stove down?

Unlike the stoves of yesteryear where you could "choke" them down so hard, you could put them out. The EPA stoves can only be turned down so far. Even at their lowest settings, most stove will allow enough air bypass to keep the fire lit. So the term "choke down" is a little different for todays stoves.

Your stove and pipe temps, along with the heat output you want from the stove will dictate your settings.

 

[pen]

My new wood stove is also giving me longer burn times. With the old fisher, I would only be able to get about an 8-9 hour burn (burn = be able to easily start the next fire w/out using kindling) without turning it into a smoldering mess. I am getting 10-12 with the new englander stove with even less smoke (none) coming from the chimney.

While I don't think my stove temps on this new stove are getting as high as the old stove, I'm getting more heat from less wood because it is able to maintain an overall higher average temp over a longer period.

It's still new (only had about 6-10 burns so far) but those are my initial observations from making the switch.

pen

 

[randy1]

Many people have already said it, but you can basically get 1/3 more heat with 1/3 less wood. I just had a new stove put in sometime in June. When I have a fire going, and the firebox is nice and hot, there are almost no visible emissions, and a TON of heat output.

 

[boisblancboy]

Does putting a blower on the stove increase efficiency? Since the blower would help move the heat around the house easier and since it would help pull the heat off the stove?

 

[Pagey]

Does putting a blower on the stove increase efficiency? Since the blower would help move the heat around the house easier and since it would help pull the heat off the stove?

Well, my understanding of "efficiency" is really a measure of how much heat you're getting the stove to radiate into the room vs. sending that heat up the chimney as "waste". I can't say that a blower will increase efficiency in this sense. However, today's stoves are very much radiant heaters vs. convection heaters. The blower can help improve the convection side of the equation. Again, this is my understanding, but hopefully someone with more knowledge will correct me or fill in the gaps.

 

[ROBERT F]

A blower for the stove will most defenitly help move some heat around the stove, but the single best thing I think you can do for moving the heat around is ceiling fans or small box fans to circulate the heat in the home.

 

[randy1]

Instead of a blower, (if you want to go the cheaper route), you could place a fan next to your stove so it blows the warm air off the stove and around your house. That's what I did last year, but now my new stove has a blower in it.

 

[firefighterjake]

Instead of a blower, (if you want to go the cheaper route), you could place a fan next to your stove so it blows the warm air off the stove and around your house. That's what I did last year, but now my new stove has a blower in it.

Or try doing the counter-intuitive thing . . . take the cheap fan and position it so that it is blowing towards the stove. Sounds crazy, but it works . . . basically the fan pushes the cooler air towards the stove (remember cool air is generally lower to the ground while the warm air has risen to the top layer) . . . the warm air then flows to the area "vacated" by the cool air and you end up with an "air current" which moves warm air to the cool spots in the home. In the Winter I have a fan just outside of my living room blowing air blowing air towards the stove (about 20-23 feet away) . . . pretty much the entire house stays warm (a bit cooler in the downstairs bedroom located the most distant from the stove and my mudroom . . . but all other rooms are plenty warm.)

As far as a blower I thought about buying one for my stove and the dealer advised me to try burning for a year before opting to make that purchase. His opinion: most folks find they don't need one and if they want one they can always buy it later.

 

[yardatwork]

I'm either one of a few that think the new stoves are duds or my stove is a lemon. I went form using four cord to six last year. It was a non-stop battle to get this stove to produce heat. I was up and down the stairs every 45 minute to an hour stuffing the firebox. If I was even 10 minutes off that schedule, I would lose MOST if not ALL heat and basically it was like starting over again. The top of the stove wasn't even that hot. I think the fiberboard blocks all the heat that typically would go straight to the top of the stove. Since the top doesn't get that hot, placing a box fan behind my stove didn't do much in helping blow around the heat. Is there something major I can check for to see if there is a manufacturing error. My new stove is for 1800 sq. ft. my old stove was only for 1000 sq. ft...the old stove was so much better in heating my house.

 

[Jags]

I'm either one of a few that think the new stoves are duds or my stove is a lemon. I went form using four cord to six last year. It was a non-stop battle to get this stove to produce heat. I was up and down the stairs every 45 minute to an hour stuffing the firebox. If I was even 10 minutes off that schedule, I would lose MOST if not ALL heat and basically it was like starting over again. The top of the stove wasn't even that hot. I think the fiberboard blocks all the heat that typically would go straight to the top of the stove. Since the top doesn't get that hot, placing a box fan behind my stove didn't do much in helping blow around the heat. Is there something major I can check for to see if there is a manufacturing error. My new stove is for 1800 sq. ft. my old stove was only for 1000 sq. ft...the old stove was so much better in heating my house.

What stove? This does not sound right.

 

[mellow]

Yardatwork: put what stove you own in your signature

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm either one of a few that think the new stoves are duds or my stove is a lemon. I went form using four cord to six last year. It was a non-stop battle to get this stove to produce heat. I was up and down the stairs every 45 minute to an hour stuffing the firebox. If I was even 10 minutes off that schedule, I would lose MOST if not ALL heat and basically it was like starting over again. The top of the stove wasn't even that hot. I think the fiberboard blocks all the heat that typically would go straight to the top of the stove. Since the top doesn't get that hot, placing a box fan behind my stove didn't do much in helping blow around the heat. Is there something major I can check for to see if there is a manufacturing error. My new stove is for 1800 sq. ft. my old stove was only for 1000 sq. ft...the old stove was so much better in heating my house.

What stove? This does not sound right.

It is the Summers Heat branded 13-NC. He has a thread about it.

 

[Jags]

I'm either one of a few that think the new stoves are duds or my stove is a lemon. I went form using four cord to six last year. It was a non-stop battle to get this stove to produce heat. I was up and down the stairs every 45 minute to an hour stuffing the firebox. If I was even 10 minutes off that schedule, I would lose MOST if not ALL heat and basically it was like starting over again. The top of the stove wasn't even that hot. I think the fiberboard blocks all the heat that typically would go straight to the top of the stove. Since the top doesn't get that hot, placing a box fan behind my stove didn't do much in helping blow around the heat. Is there something major I can check for to see if there is a manufacturing error. My new stove is for 1800 sq. ft. my old stove was only for 1000 sq. ft...the old stove was so much better in heating my house.

What stove? This does not sound right.

It is the Summers Heat branded 13-NC. He has a thread about it.

Da-dada-DAAAA! I am off to find this thread you speak of.

 

[Bootlegger]

It is the Summers Heat branded 13-NC. He has a thread about it.

I just bought a Summers 50-SNC which is identical to the Englander recommended so highly here. I'm assuming this is an installation problem and not something specific about Summers/Englander stoves.

 

[Pagey]

After reading that other thread, I'm nearly convinced it's the guy's wood supply. Even if it's been sitting in the round for 2 years, until you split that stuff and expose the most surface area possible to a year of wind and sun, you're simply not going to get much performance out of today's secondary combustion stoves.

 

[Jags]

It is the Summers Heat branded 13-NC. He has a thread about it.

I just bought a Summers 50-SNC which is identical to the Englander recommended so highly here. I'm assuming this is an installation problem and not something specific about Summers/Englander stoves.

Yer all good. That stove will do you a fine job.