New Wood Insert - Longest Burn Times?

[atf8611]

Hi all. I'm looking into replacing my existing wood insert with something larger. Ultimately the goal is to extend burn times to get through the night with at least some heat being output in the morning. I'm leaning towards a Blaze King of some sort, but I was hoping to get some ideas and/or feedback on some other options before just jumping into the BK.

My current stove insert is an Avalon Rainier. I don't have any real complaints about it and the output is more than enough to keep up with the coldest days around here. The only problem is the small (~1.8 cu.ft.) firebox and generally only burning pine** means that I can't quite get a full night out of a full load. I normally set the damper so it's just shy of closed, and at best I will wake up with enough embers to get it restarted without resorting to matches. Unfortunately that means the stove had long since ceased providing any meaningful heat.

The stove is located on the main floor (~1000 sq.ft.) and I generally run it all winter. The pellet stove in the basement runs 24/7 in the winter and picks up the slack when the wood stove runs out of fuel, although that heat doesn't do a great job of reaching the master bed/bath. Electric baseboard is the backup heat and usually powered off unless we are going away for more than a day.

I've been reading a good amount on this site, and it seems like Blaze King keeps coming up whenever someone is concerned about long burn times. I'm sure that I won't get anywhere near the listed burn times with pine, but a consistent fire for even half of the rated time would be more than acceptable. I am curious though, is there any other insert out there that even comes close as far as burn time? I'd probably just go for the BK, but they are pretty spendy and none of the dealers near me even have anything on the floor to check out (inserts at least).

** Pine is pretty much all I can get around here. Mixed hardwood goes for $300+ per cord. That's hard to justify when I've got several years worth of free pine without even stepping outside of my 2 acres. Probably a lifetime free supply without leaving the neighborhood.

 

[jetsam]

BK is actually where it's at for crazy burn times. I have the Princess Insert and I can get 20 hours out of a good load of pine. Results vary with fuel, flue, and operation, but I can't imagine anyone having trouble getting 12 hours out of a load of pine burned on low.

These stoves are from the pacific northwest, where all the trees have needles.

Pine on!

 

[bholler]

Yes for long burn times bk is absolutely the way to go. But with long burn times comes lower but output. Being that you will also be upsizing the firebox I would say you should be fine though.

 

[Highbeam]

BK is really the only option for long burn times. That's why I bought one and have not regretted it. I burn low btu woods in my slightly larger freestanding princess and I reload every 24 hours. Constant, low output, that keeps the house warm is a great thing.

Nothing wrong with pine. Just make sure it is properly seasoned.

 

[atf8611]

Thanks for all the input so far, the general sentiment certainly lines up with what I was expecting. It seems crazy that nobody else even comes close, I was kinda hoping that I had overlooked something. So there's really nothing else out there that can get a reliable 12-ish hours of usable heat? I suppose the "insert" requirement really limits the fire box size.

Also appreciate the feedback regarding pine, understood that fully seasoned is the only safe way to go. Fortunately it's pretty easy to season wood here in CO where the relative humidity is usually in the teens.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for all the input so far, the general sentiment certainly lines up with what I was expecting. It seems crazy that nobody else even comes close, I was kinda hoping that I had overlooked something. So there's really nothing else out there that can get a reliable 12-ish hours of usable heat? I suppose the "insert" requirement really limits the fire box size.

Also appreciate the feedback regarding pine, understood that fully seasoned is the only safe way to go. Fortunately it's pretty easy to season wood here in CO where the relative humidity is usually in the teens.

It's not a question of insert firebox size unless the fireplace's firebox is too small for a large stove. Many people heat their homes with other inserts and several stove companies make 3 cu ft inserts. Most will provide heat for 10+ hrs. during milder weather. It is during very cold weather that the burn time goes down in proportion with the heat demand. This affects cat and non-cat stoves. What some cat stoves are capable of is burning the smoke off of smoldering logs. This slow outgassing permits a longer burn time at a low output level. BK adds a thermostat which complements this burn cycle and helps extend it while maintaining a relatively even room temp. If you are away from the house for 12+ hrs then it's a good choice.

One thing to note, at higher altitudes the air is thinner and often a taller flue system is needed to compensate. This can be an issue with some single-story installations.

 

[mountain man 2]

It's not a question of insert firebox size unless the fireplace's firebox is too small for a large stove. Many people heat their homes with other inserts and several stove companies make 3 cu ft inserts. Most will provide heat for 10+ hrs. during milder weather. It is during very cold weather that the burn time goes down in proportion with the heat demand. This affects cat and non-cat stoves. What some cat stoves are capable of is burning the smoke off of smoldering logs. This slow outgassing permits a longer burn time at a low output level. BK adds a thermostat which complements this burn cycle and helps extend it while maintaining a relatively even room temp. If you are away from the house for 12+ hrs then it's a good choice.

One thing to note, at higher altitudes the air is thinner and often a taller flue system is needed to compensate. This can be an issue with some single-story installations.

In your opinion from experience.....at what elevation due you feel draft problems can start to be noticable as a whole...just curious....Thanx

 

[begreen]

Different stove companies have charts for this. Vermont Castings and Enviro come to mind.

 

[jetsam]

Thanks for all the input so far, the general sentiment certainly lines up with what I was expecting. It seems crazy that nobody else even comes close, I was kinda hoping that I had overlooked something. So there's really nothing else out there that can get a reliable 12-ish hours of usable heat? I suppose the "insert" requirement really limits the fire box size.

Also appreciate the feedback regarding pine, understood that fully seasoned is the only safe way to go. Fortunately it's pretty easy to season wood here in CO where the relative humidity is usually in the teens.

The Kuma Sequoia advertises up to 14 hour burn times, and the (few) people who have reviewed them here have liked them.

Its firebox is 1.5x the size of the Princess Insert's, though, and the burn time is still about half, so its lowest burn rate is probably 2x-4x what the PI's is.

I can't advise you how real world burn times line up with what the brochure says.

You also need a big fireplace.

Overall, an insert I'd recommend to someone who wants big wintertime heat from their big fireplace; less so for someone who wants to burn for 12+ hours to supplement other heat sources.

https://www.kumastoves.com/Store/ProductDetails/sequoia-insert

 

[billb3]

You have an 8 inch flue with a 6" adapter on the Avalon ?

 

[atf8611]

That's a fine point about the altitude correction. I'll have to take a proper measurement, but I think the existing flue is right around 15'. I don't see any correction factor in the BK manual, but I am at 8,000' so that may make a difference. I can't imagine an extension would be hard to install. I haven't had any draft problems with my current stove, but I'd imagine the BK is a totally different animal.

The existing flue is 6" liner all the way through. Uninsulated though, so I'm sure that wouldn't help with any draft concerns. I might look at upgrading to insulated if I go the BK route.

Thanks for the Kuma recommendation. I think you are correct about the output though, it probably can't be throttled back enough. Might also be too big, I know the BK was going to be a squeeze and this looks even larger.

 

[jetsam]

I ran my PI for a year on 12' of flue (I had it "professionally" installed by my dealer, so I had to pull everything out later and redo it after I learned why you'd want an insulated flue, a blockoff plate, and proper draft)- and was very pleased with the change after I added another 3'. This is at sea level.

It did work on the short, uninsulated flue, but I can burn much lower now, and am much less likely to get smoke leakage when I open the door on a warm day.