Newb Confusion! New wood insert advice.

[sekelmaan]

Hi everyone. I have been reading now for a week or so. This seems like the best place on the interwebs to find any decent information on stoves and inserts. We have been looking for a wood burning insert for a while now and are just about to pull the trigger, but I came here last night and my doubts started popping back up so I thought I would throw out some last minute questions.

We are in a standard cape just outside Boston about 1500 sq ft. I think we have a medium sized outside facing fireplace 37"W x 28"H x 20"D. Though the width at the back is 27". And the back of the fireplace starts to slope a little at about 13" so the depth at the top of the fireplace opening is 17", a loss of 3" from bottom to top.

Our top pick is a Hearthstone Clydesdale. I like it because I know it will fit due to the variable depth of the box. And obviously the wife loves the large viewing window.

The second choice is a PE Alderlea. However, I see that the Summit is a highly regarded choice on the forums.

After reading last night I am also very interested in a Blaze King Princess. These have great efficiency and ridiculous BTU's.

To cat or not to cat. That is a question. I have a lot of pine and the sales people have said that I should avoid cats as a result, but that princess seems to rock with a cat.

It seems pretty important to insulate the fireplace. Our favorite sales guy said there is no need for an insulated liner either, so not sure about that.

Lastly, what are the important numbers you look at BTU's? Effciency? Etc?

I have been shopping for something that is rated for 2000+ sq ft to make sure it heats well enough and will get upstairs, is that naive?

Thank you so much for all your great posts!

 

[edyit]

generally disregard square footage ratings thats mostly sales fluff. firebox size is a better judge of heating capability (IMO) personally i would go with the largest stove you can fit in there, i would also go with the insulated liner regardless of what the salesman says (hotter flue gasses = less creosote = less chance of a chimney fire) also if you plan on burning this winter you'll need good dry seasoned wood, if you don't have a supply of that already look into bio bricks or something similar. lastly search this site for "Block off plate" if you're going with an insert on an exterior chimney you might want one of these as well.

oh and welcome to the forums

 

[BKVP]

Yes, go with insulated liner! You will find it a great up front investment with no buyers remorse.

 

[sekelmaan]

Thanks for the responses. I think my new front runner is a PE Summit. 3.0 cf firebox. I think I can just squeeze it in.

Not sure about the BK because I am told that cats and pine don't mix.

 

[BKVP]

Thanks for the responses. I think my new front runner is a PE Summit. 3.0 cf firebox. I think I can just squeeze it in.

Not sure about the BK because I am told that cats and pine don't mix.

Cat stoves love pine! Old school designs would fail no matter what and pine always got the bad rap.

 

[ewarmour]

Definitely go with an insulated liner. As far as pine and cats, it's my experience it's fine.

Well seasoned wood, burning smaller/hotter fires and regular maintenance is the key. The catalytic element must get hot enough to do it's job.

 

[sekelmaan]

I talked to the sales guy again today. He said that I can get a too big insert. I can fit a summit in but barely. It will be within a half inch at the top back corner. I could shave a little brick back with my angle grinder.

Do you all think you can put in a too big insert?

Thanks so much for all your help.

 

[TradEddie]

Do you all think you can put in a too big insert?

I did, although it depends on what you mean by too big. Mine is too big for the room its in, or more precisely, too big for the small doors/walkways between that room and the rest of the house. The result is that on all but the coldest days of the year I need to take care to run the insert as low as possible, while still keeping it hot enough to burn clean. At worst, I open a door to outside.

It's not a big problem, and I'm not sure I'd even go smaller if I made the choice again.Those longer burn times make up for the attention needed.

TE.

 

[edyit]

you can always build a smaller fire in a bigger stove, you can't build a bigger fire in a smaller stove. just because you get the biggest one you can fit in there doesn't mean you have to stuff it full every time you run it. but when it gets cold here in the north east its really nice to be able to get that little extra out of a bigger fire box.

 

[prezes13]

I put a stove that is rated for 2200sf in a 1200sf house. It's not too big by any means. If I knew then what I know now I would have went with a bigger fire box, or BK princess. I live in ct Hartford county so pretty much the same cold winters as you have. If you have open space floor plan go as big as you can.

 

[mass_burner]

SS Mass here. Liner yes, block off plate yes. Certified installer yes.

I would have gone with larger stove, but aesthetics was close to top of list. Our 1.6 box heats open floor plan of ~1100 sf ft common area just fine. Will you be burning overnight? How well insulated is your house?

 

[sekelmaan]

The house is very well insulated. No drafts at all. I am kind of back to where I started but now either a summit or a clydesdale. I think that 2.4cf box might be a lot for our little 1500sq ft.

 

[sekelmaan]

Oh yeah, definitely want to run it overnight.

 

[mass_burner]

Oh yeah, definitely want to run it overnight.

If that's the case you will need a 2.5 or above stove.

 

[begreen]

Cat stoves love pine! Old school designs would fail no matter what and pine always got the bad rap.

Not disagreeing but I noted today that Buck has the old school admonition that burning pine, fir etc. creates creosote. I don't buy that but was surprised to read it in their cat stove (80) manual.

 

[sekelmaan]

If that's the case you will need a 2.5 or above stove.

What store did you use? Did you like or trust your salesguy?

 

[jatoxico]

As you ponder the "too big" question remember a cat stove can be run low and slow cleanly. It can be done in tube stoves but you have to do it by lessening the load which reduces burn time. Full loads in a tube stove (like mine) tend to give more of a peak and valley type heat.

Nice to trust your salesman but if you've been here for any length of time you already know more than most.

 

[sekelmaan]

As you ponder the "too big" question remember a cat stove can be run low and slow cleanly. It can be done in tube stoves but you have to do it by lessening the load which reduces burn time. Full loads in a tube stove (like mine) tend to give more of a peak and valley type heat.

Nice to trust your salesman but if you've been here for any length of time you already know more than most.

Trust sales is a definitive oxymoron.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[jatoxico]

Trust sales is a definitive oxymoron.

Thanks for the tip!

Unfortunate but all too often true. Just look at the advice you've already gotten. "You don't need an insulated liner" That's a potential safety issue. How would anyone know if your clearances are OK without an inspection (never mind the other benefits)? "Cats don't like pine" Meanwhile you have a BK rep here telling you just the opposite. Ah well, good thing there's Hearth.

 

[NYSB]

+1 on all the above. I managed to end up with a decent system, mostly by luck, but this sure is a great resource...

Our house is about 1800sqft and we had specific requirements in terms of looks/design. My wife was set on a very contemporary design and I wanted something that would burn for a long time. So right there we were able to narrow the choice down to flush mount cat (or hybrid) inserts. Of all the ones we looked at we bought the largest. So we have a flush mount catalytic hybrid stove with a 2.5sqft firebox. I like to run it overnight and I am able to turn down the primary air control before I go to bed and let it cruise until morning. When I wake up the cat temp usually reads between 500-600, so I know the cat is still in the active zone, and the fan is still blowing warm air. If it's cold out or if it's a weekend I might re-load it right then. If it's not that cold or it's a workday I'll just let it run out. Often when I get home from work there are still enough hot coals to get it going again. In that case I'll load it 50-80% full and run the air control mid-to-high and do a hot burn. Once that dies down to coals in 3-4 hours I'll then reload for the overnight burn, stuffing the firebox full - as tight as I can manage. Once it's going and the cat temp probe is reading 450-500, I'll close the bypass and begin turning down the air control.

As for the insulated liner and block off plate, a lot of dealers look at you like you're crazy. It's as if you walked into a car dealership and asked for a car with a fur-lined trunk. I just think that from their point-of-view those things add cost and more importantly, time, to a customer installation so they are just not in the habit of doing it. Potential safety considerations aside, I would guess most people would have a pretty functional system without either one. But you really need both for really optimal stove function and safety. For me, I do plan to insulate my liner, put in a block off plate, and also put insulation between the stove and the masonry fireplace it's sitting in.

SB

 

[sekelmaan]

+1 on all the above. I managed to end up with a decent system, mostly by luck, but this sure is a great resource...

Our house is about 1800sqft and we had specific requirements in terms of looks/design. My wife was set on a very contemporary design and I wanted something that would burn for a long time. So right there we were able to narrow the choice down to flush mount cat (or hybrid) inserts. Of all the ones we looked at we bought the largest. So we have a flush mount catalytic hybrid stove with a 2.5sqft firebox. I like to run it overnight and I am able to turn down the primary air control before I go to bed and let it cruise until morning. When I wake up the cat temp usually reads between 500-600, so I know the cat is still in the active zone, and the fan is still blowing warm air. If it's cold out or if it's a weekend I might re-load it right then. If it's not that cold or it's a workday I'll just let it run out. Often when I get home from work there are still enough hot coals to get it going again. In that case I'll load it 50-80% full and run the air control mid-to-high and do a hot burn. Once that dies down to coals in 3-4 hours I'll then reload for the overnight burn, stuffing the firebox full - as tight as I can manage. Once it's going and the cat temp probe is reading 450-500, I'll close the bypass and begin turning down the air control.

As for the insulated liner and block off plate, a lot of dealers look at you like you're crazy. It's as if you walked into a car dealership and asked for a car with a fur-lined trunk. I just think that from their point-of-view those things add cost and more importantly, time, to a customer installation so they are just not in the habit of doing it. Potential safety considerations aside, I would guess most people would have a pretty functional system without either one. But you really need both for really optimal stove function and safety. For me, I do plan to insulate my liner, put in a block off plate, and also put insulation between the stove and the masonry fireplace it's sitting in.

SB

Thanks SB! Great information. May I ask which stove you ended up with?

 

[sekelmaan]

Welp. I am a brand new PE Summt owner. Sales guy tried pretty hard to convince me I was buying too much stove. I am still not sure, but it seems a little bigger is better than a little too small.

Thanks to everyone who responded and just in general who writes on this board. It has been the best resource for stoves and fireplaces that I have found on the innernet.

Install on 12/22. I will update.

Happy thanksgiving!