Newbie Here: (Re)Building off grid cabin and need some stove advice

[billlumberg]

So my previous cabin was hit by lighting and burned to the ground. Rebuilding it now. I did have a Quadafire Pellet insert, but want to go with a wood stove for primary heating. I will have a 5T geothermal for the first floor and a 2T forced air for the loft area. Given that, I am trying to design the system for off grid as much as possible.

The overall layout of the cabin is a 45'x'45 and will be built using 8"x8"x12" logs. First floor has two bedrooms/bathrooms that run along the left side the entire length of the cabin and will be 16' wide. Above the bedrooms, will be a 1/2 second floor that will be partly open except a 3rd bedroom/bathroom encompassing and area of 11.5' x 22'. Outside of the loft area, the first floor will be cathedral ceiling to a height of 22'. The stove will be placed directly under that peak, so if I was to run the pipe out of the ceiling, it would have approx. ~18' run.

My requirements/desires: Looks, little smoke in house when adding wood, ease of use, can go thru the night, would function without any electricity, good stove functionality. I also would like boiler functionality and it to meet the EPA tax credit. Cost is somewhat not an issue, but don't want a Ferrari if a Ford will do.

I am considering the following products:

Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 LE
Woodstock Progress Hybrid
Vermont Castings Dauntless Flexburn
Blaze King 40
Vermont Bun Baker XL 1600 with 2 3/8" soapstone veneer

Thoughts? Any other units I should consider?

TIA,

Bill

 

[Mt Bob]

I'm blown away. You are building a mansion for a cabin and worried about a little tax credit?

 

[marty319]

Have you looked at the osburn stoves?

 

[Todd]

The T6 doesn’t meet the tax credit requirements but is a great performer. I’d stay away from the VC‘s they can be finicky to operate and high maintenance. Blaze kings are great especially for those shoulder season long burns. Woodstock has some great stoves as well and a great reputation. I think id go with the Progress.

 

[EbS-P]

Cross off the VC from the list and I think it’s a great start. I have not read much about the bun baker. With a Dutch oven and a propane grill I don’t see the need for a wood fired oven.

8” venting of the BK 40 will probably be the most expensive by 20-30%.

7 tons seems like a lot for 2000 sq ft. Did you have a heat loss calculation done. If it’s just logs I get it. Really if you want a wood stove that puts out that kinda heat you need to be looking at the really big ones that run on 8” flues. There are a few. The BK 40 high output is less than the other big stoves.

Just some thoughts.

 

[snobuilder]

What does off grid mean?

 

[billlumberg]

I'm blown away. You are building a mansion for a cabin and worried about a little tax credit?

Thanks for your reply. If I can find a stove that meets my need and provides the credit, I would be foolish not to purchase it.

Have you looked at the osburn stoves?

Thanks for the recommendation, I had not. I might add the Matrix w/Soap Stone to the list. I just don't know how removing the blower function would effect the unit.

The T6 doesn’t meet the tax credit requirements but is a great performer. I’d stay away from the VC‘s they can be finicky to operate and high maintenance. Blaze kings are great especially for those shoulder season long burns. Woodstock has some great stoves as well and a great reputation. I think id go with the Progress.

Thanks for the information. Between you and EbS-P, I am removing the VC from the list. That was my number one in terms of looks, but I don't want the hassle. Can you use the Progress without the CT?

Cross off the VC from the list and I think it’s a great start. I have not read much about the bun baker. With a Dutch oven and a propane grill I don’t see the need for a wood fired oven.

8” venting of the BK 40 will probably be the most expensive by 20-30%.

7 tons seems like a lot for 2000 sq ft. Did you have a heat loss calculation done. If it’s just logs I get it. Really if you want a wood stove that puts out that kinda heat you need to be looking at the really big ones that run on 8” flues. There are a few. The BK 40 high output is less than the other big stoves.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the information.

I should have clarified that the over sided HVAC units are for cooling purposes. The original cabin was a 40x40 layout, and had a 3T unit. It is located in Zone 3, so the summers there, with the open concept, made cooling a 24x7 ordeal. I replaced it, with a 5T and AC at least turned off occasionally. Same thing with upstairs as most of the heat is pushed into that area.

What does off grid mean?

Can fully function with out any electrical/gas requirements.

 

[snobuilder]

Ok because it sounds like you need both

 

[begreen]

Where are you located? USA is much too general. We need to have a sense of design temps and heat loss. Will the house have a lot of extra glazing?

Revised list depending on available dealer support:
Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 LE
Woodstock Progress Hybrid
Blaze King 40
Regency 3500
Lopi Liberty
Osburn 3500 (not the Matrix)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How set are you on electricity free performance? I don't think it's realistic to expect any single stove to evenly heat over 2000 square feet without encouraging convection. Pipe dreams are fun, but reality is often disappointing.

 

[billlumberg]

Where are you located? USA is much too general. We need to have a sense of design temps and heat loss. Will the house have a lot of extra glazing?

Revised list depending on available dealer support:
Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 LE
Woodstock Progress Hybrid
Blaze King 40
Regency 3500
Lopi Liberty
Osburn 3500 (not the Matrix)

In zone 3. Not sure what you mean by glazing, but it will just be the logs. I man installing pella reserve windows and doors. I did not see the Vermont bun on your list. Any reason why?

How set are you on electricity free performance? I don't think it's realistic to expect any single stove to evenly heat over 2000 square feet without encouraging convection. Pipe dreams are fun, but reality is often disappointing.

Right now, getting a quote for a 14kw solar array.

I know having all heating is probably a pipe dream, but I look thru the lens of worse possible scenario, build as best I can for that, and live with the outcome. That’s why I didn’t talk about the solar in the first place. I think I would have gotten responses that took that in to account.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

All right. Worst case scenario is absolutely no power in Zone 3, -25 to -30F with a strong windchill. Mostly open floor plan with 22' ceiling.

Get polar rated sleeping bags because you're going to be cold.

I think your best bet would be a big steel box. 3.5-4 cubic feet. But when that wind gets blowing you're still going to be cold. Forget the cast iron cladding, forget the soap stone. It'll only slow down the heat transfer. All your heat will be at the ceiling.

 

[stoveliker]

^^That. Make sure your ceiling fan will run on solar/battery power.

Also, I'm confused by "I also would like boiler functionality".

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I see buildings like this popping up all around the Adirondacks. They'd be a nightmare to heat without electricity.

If you want to know what is sustainable to heat without electricity and only on wood, look at a 150 year old house in the area. That size you'll be able to physically gather enough wood for. And I bet they closed off outlying rooms.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

All right. Worst case scenario is absolutely no power in Zone 3, -25 to -30F with a strong windchill. Mostly open floor plan with 22' ceiling.

Get polar rated sleeping bags because you're going to be cold.

I think your best bet would be a big steel box. 3.5-4 cubic feet. But when that wind gets blowing you're still going to be cold. Forget the cast iron cladding, forget the soap stone. It'll only slow down the heat transfer. All your heat will be at the ceiling.

I assume that OP is referring to Climate Zone 3, which is a lot warmer than USDA Zone 3. I agree that providing as many specifics as possible about climate, space to be heated, and goals would yield much more helpful advice.

https://inspectapedia.com/aircond/U.S.-Climate-Zone-Map-US-IECC.jpg

 

[begreen]

In zone 3. Not sure what you mean by glazing, but it will just be the logs. I man installing pella reserve windows and doors. I did not see the Vermont bun on your list. Any reason why?

Glazing = windows. A lot of windows can result in large heat loss through them. That plays into stove sizing. The Vermont Bun is too small and I didn't see any requirement for the additional expense and an oven. The Vermont Bun Baker XL has only a 1.6 cu ft firebox.

 

[billlumberg]

I assume that OP is referring to Climate Zone 3, which is a lot warmer than USDA Zone 3. I agree that providing as many specifics as possible about climate, space to be heated, and goals would yield much more helpful advice.

https://inspectapedia.com/aircond/U.S.-Climate-Zone-Map-US-IECC.jpg

Yes, climate zone 3.

Glazing = windows. A lot of windows can result in large heat loss through them. That plays into stove sizing. The Vermont Bun is too small and I didn't see any requirement for the additional expense and an oven. The Vermont Bun Baker XL has only a 1.6 cu ft firebox.

Thanks. I am putting in Pella Reserve double hung windows.

 

[billlumberg]

^^That. Make sure your ceiling fan will run on solar/battery power.

Also, I'm confused by "I also would like boiler functionality".

Hot water boiler/heater.

 

[bholler]

If you want to be able to heat the cabin with just a single woodstove don't build it with a 22' ceiling and stick build it. Side it in log if you want that look. And keep the windows to a minimum.

 

[stoveliker]

Most if not all stoves won't have boiler functionality.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Remember to get your wood put up now. You can't buy it seasoned, no matter what the seller says. Wood often needs multiple years to dry, and sellers don't want to leave the wood sitting around cut, split, and stacked that long. Kiln dried can be an exception, but isn't always since sometimes the kiln is only used to kill any bugs on the wood, not to dry out the interior of the wood.. Also, you're going to need a lot of wood to heat that place. Drying 3 years is best but 2 years is often fine. For the size place you're looking at, I'd put up 5 cords/year.

 

[Todd]

I think you’ll be fine with a 3cu ft fire box stove in zone 3 climate. Even with tall ceilings. ceiling fans will help and with a 14kw solar system you should be able to keep the fan running 24/7.

 

[billlumberg]

Remember to get your wood put up now. You can't buy it seasoned, no matter what the seller says. Wood often needs multiple years to dry, and sellers don't want to leave the wood sitting around cut, split, and stacked that long. Kiln dried can be an exception, but isn't always since sometimes the kiln is only used to kill any bugs on the wood, not to dry out the interior of the wood.. Also, you're going to need a lot of wood to heat that place. Drying 3 years is best but 2 years is often fine. For the size place you're looking at, I'd put up 5 cords/year.

Thanks. I have only being putting up 3 cords a year right now (have 3 cords for each year) at 3,2,1 years dried. I have 120 acres and 70% of that is wooded, with a mix between hard and soft.