Newbie seeks wood stove advice for mountain cabin

[Applewhite]

OK, I reviewed prior articles and FAQs and tried to further educate myself on this great site BEFORE asking this question. I'll try to be specific.

Here is the situation:
I presently have a large, steel, wood stove (of unknown manufacture) that I use to heat a drafty and poorly insulated 1,100 SF cabin. Previous owner upgraded to metalbestos stove pipe, the run is short and efficient, seems to draw very well and I have no smoke issues. I use well seasoned fuel wood, 75% oak/25% pine.

My complaints with present stove are:
1) Annoying, loud, "ticking" sound when heating up and cooling back down
2) Even though firebox is large, it must be re-stocked once or twice in the middle of the night.
3) Very finicky to adjust air mixture seems to have two "speeds"; 1) hot and fast or 2) smolder and out.
4) Consumes a lot of wood and pollutes.
5) Two very small windows, you can't really see or enjoy the fire at all.
Time to put this puppy out to pasture, right?

Cabin is not used that much in the winter (<1 week per month) so I'm trying to come up with a financially sound solution. My number one desire is to avoid having to re-stock firewood in the middle of the night, but I'm worried that if I get a unit with too big a firebox, I'll overheat my small cabin. I'd also like to minimize the hot/cold temperature swings.

Additional Information: This is essentially an old style single room cabin so the stove essentially has to heat just one large "great room". Stove is set well away from combustibles, I have no clearance issues. Also, it is OFF THE GRID and as such it is not practical for me to consider units that work best with a blower. Lastly, my preference is for a non-cat type stove.

I was wondering if you all had any specific suggestions or recommendations. If I had to make a decision right now, I was thinking the Avalon Ranier would be an OK choice. Any thoughts?

Thanks so much, Anthony

 

[nshif]

Where in the Sierras and how high? Im at about 4500' off of 88 and heat a well insulated 2000 Sq ft house with some 26' high vaulted ceilings with a quadrafire 4300. Dont think you need to go to that level for a 1000 sq ft cabin and for occasional use its rather pricey. Id look at englanders, economical stoves, good rep & great support on this site.

 

[Applewhite]

I'm at 4,000 feet off of 4 (Arnold area), just at the typical snow line. It gets cold, but not like the high country. The leaks and draftyness do however me it feel like we are in the high country.

It seems like there are economical stoves avaialable on line like the Kuma Tamarack (~$1,100) or even cast iron options like the Napolean 1600C ($1,600). Anybody have an opinion on these?

 

[nshif]

Im just above you and yes it can get cold at times. For your application I highly recomend an Englander stove, bought through home depot prolly less then 1K

 

[MALogger]

(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId;=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100157775&N=10000003+90401+502188&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125)

Englander 13-nc

$739.00 delivered.

Corie who works for englander uses this to heat his house!

Craig

 

[Hogwildz]

OK, I reviewed prior articles and FAQs and tried to further educate myself on this great site BEFORE asking this question. I'll try to be specific.

Here is the situation:
I presently have a large, steel, wood stove (of unknown manufacture) that I use to heat a drafty and poorly insulated 1,100 SF cabin. Previous owner upgraded to metalbestos stove pipe, the run is short and efficient, seems to draw very well and I have no smoke issues. I use well seasoned fuel wood, 75% oak/25% pine.

My complaints with present stove are:
1) Annoying, loud, "ticking" sound when heating up and cooling back down
All stoves do this. Instead of letting it annoy you, get to know the temps that it does this at, then you know where your burn is without looking at it. You can tell by the tink.
2) Even though firebox is large, it must be re-stocked once or twice in the middle of the night.
I myself would go with an Englander 30NCL, you won't have to get up in the middle of the night to fill it. It is a large stove, but without blower will be less stifling, and you can always burn somewhat smaller loads. Or just crack a window open in the cabin. The smaller models will have you filling more often. Under $1,000.00 at home depot. What size id the existing chimney piping? Most newer stoves are 6". Worst case you can install an adapter to go from 8" to 6" if you have 8" now.
3) Very finicky to adjust air mixture seems to have two "speeds"; 1) hot and fast or 2) smolder and out.
One lever adjustment, open up put wood in, get good and charred & hot, close down, or almost all the way down. No fuss.
4) Consumes a lot of wood and pollutes.
More heat, more length of time, less wood used for same heat as the old puppy. Secondary burn, clean burn and again more heat efficiency.
5) Two very small windows, you can't really see or enjoy the fire at all.
One fairly large window and a beautiful view, especially with the secondary burn. Simply mesmerizing.
Time to put this puppy out to pasture, right?
Yes, nuff said.

Cabin is not used that much in the winter (<1 week per month) so I'm trying to come up with a financially sound solution. My number one desire is to avoid having to re-stock firewood in the middle of the night, but I'm worried that if I get a unit with too big a firebox, I'll overheat my small cabin. I'd also like to minimize the hot/cold temperature swings.
If you've read here any length of time. There is more complaints about not getting a large enough stove. I rarely see a complaint about someone getting too much heat from their stove. This is the most important point I feel to point out. You can always open a window. But, you can only fill a stove with so much wood. Longer burn times on a single load will keep the temperature swings to a minimal. This also relies on your burning habits, wood burnt, etc.

Additional Information: This is essentially an old style single room cabin so the stove essentially has to heat just one large "great room". Stove is set well away from combustibles, I have no clearance issues. Also, it is OFF THE GRID and as such it is not practical for me to consider units that work best with a blower. Lastly, my preference is for a non-cat type stove.

Non cat in the Englander

I was wondering if you all had any specific suggestions or recommendations. If I had to make a decision right now, I was thinking the Avalon Ranier would be an OK choice. Any thoughts?
In a cabin thats prolly not well insulated or tight, and is basically one big room, this IMO is a great choice. As Brother Bart puts its so well..... Most burn for your buck.

Thanks so much, Anthony

 

[Applewhite]

Thank you all for your help and input, on top of that, I actually took your advice! The local Home Depot had a dusty 30-NCH hidden in the back so I figure it was meant to be (plus I got them to knock $100 off).

Installation was breeze as it is pretty easy to handle if you take the bricks out and the door off and it is easy to get em back in. As expected, it stank like crazy for the first burn but after that it has been great. It is almost silent (at least for now, none of those annoying loud ticks). The one thinig that surprised me is justy how nice it is, clean lines and that window is HUGE, the fire is just gorgeous (I did toss those brass trim strips!). It cranks out the heat but is not overwhelming. Much easier to get steady heat all day long and avoid the hot/cold swings.

I did achieve the elusive all night burn without having to re-stoke in the middle of the night but I still have a lot to learn to get this dialed in. I do have a problem in that I seem to be exceptionally talented in making charcoal. Each night, I loaded up the box pretty full (Not higher than the bricks) with well cured oak oriented E-W, biggest pieces in the back/bottom and then ran full open for at least 30 minutes until the wood all seemed good and charred. I then tried backing to down to various degrees, one night all the way down, other nights pulled out about 1/2" or 3/4". I would expect to wake to a bunch of ash in the front of the stove and hot coals in the back but instead I typically would find several inches of coals over the entire bed. Think big chunks of charcoal, all burning nicely, NOT glowing bright orange. If left alone with vent full open, this charcoal continues to burn nice and cleanly (no smoke!) and the stove puts out a nice moderate heat. However, cabin is drafty and I want to crank out MORE heat. So I rake the charcoal into a giant mound towards the front of the stove and toss on more wood, oriented N-S. This gets me to the desired temperature but also results in a net increase in the amount of coals over the coarse of the day. Come dinner time, I moved a bucket full of coals into my Weber and BBQ'd a big steak (any one else like to BBQ in the snow?).

SO, anyone have any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong to produce all this charcoal? With the vent wide open, should I be able to burn the charcoal faster so it burns orange and produces more heat? I seem to have good draft and my stove pipe is ~15' of new metalbestos 6" pipe. I do have to say the oak I am burning is unbelievable, it is hard as rock, burns almost like coal and can only be split with a hydraulic splitter (trust me on this one), could this be the nature of the beast when burning this particular type of wood?

All in all I am extrememely happy with the Englander, 10X better than my old stove so thanks very much for the tip. I'm just trying to get things dialed in here so that it is "perfect".

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome the the 30-NC family. Amazing how it has grown in the last year. Before long we are going to have to get tee shirts and a secret handshake and stuff.

With your altitude 15' is kinda cutting it close for good draft with the big hoss. That is probably some of or all of the cause of the long burn and coaling issues. Since everybody piles on fast with all of their different ideas for burning down coals I will leave that to the rest of the gang.

 

[jtp10181]

Tell us more about the chimney, is it all one kind of pipe? Or does it use connector pipe inside and go to a support box in the ceiling, then Class A from the cieling up and out the roof? What kind of pitch do you have on the roof? How much pipe stick out of the roof? Just want to make sure your chimney is up to code and safe.

 

[nshif]

Glad to hear your happy with it and good to have another local on the forum.
Get as hammered by yesterdays strom as we did?

 

[Applewhite]

Thanks for your thoughts on my coaling problem. I headed home to the flatlands to avoid this winter storm so I can't provide you with exact measurements of the cabin chimney. Below is an interior picture, you can see there is a 3' vertical run followed by at most a 4' horizontal run that goes straight through the wall and immediately connects to the 90 degree elbow for the vertical run. You can see the transition to the metlabestos class A stainless steel pipe in the picture, the rest of the run is all the same pipe. I believe the outside vertical run is about 12' (for 15' total), it could possibly be just 10', giving me just 13' of vertical run, worst case. My elevation is 4,000 feet, could this really be the source of my problem?
Tx, Anthony

 

[begreen]

If you notice the stove performs sluggishly when temps are warmer and some smoke always spills out the door, it may be weak draft. There are 2 90 deg. turns in the smoke path that are reducing the effective length of the pipe. I think if you can add 3 feet the stove will draw better. By the way, while adding things, the hearth needs to be extended so that there is 18" protection in front of the stove. At some point or other, embers or perhaps a chunk of a hot log will fall out onto the hearth.

 

[SlyFerret]

Hmm... Installs go quickly when you already have the hearth and chimney in place.

How has the learning curve been on your stove? I'm still waiting on parts to come in to finish my chimney for my 30.

-SF

 

[Applewhite]

Brother Bart, yes we'll have to start working on a secret hand shake, wink wink, nod nod.

Be Green, thanks for the tip on increasing the hearth, also I didn't know the 90's decrease the effective length. So far, I've never had any draft issues nor any smoke come out the door, I'll keep an eye out for any change in behavior when the weather gets warmer. Adding more 3' more flue length will be difficult but I'll look into it, I've got very high wind loads so I can't just pop on another section. If anybody else has ideas/suggestions on my coaling issues (plain old operator error??), I'd love to hear them.

SF, can't say too much on the learning curve, I've only used the cabin 4 days since I installed the stove! So far, operation seems pretty straightforward. The intake air adjustment has a lot travel which is great - it does not seem real finicky.

 

[KWillets]

Ran across this the other night: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/tips/toomuchcharcoal.htm)

 

[Applewhite]

kWillits: That link is great - thanks!! The pictures look just like they could have been taken in my stove and it is nice to know "I'm not the only one" with this issue and to know that it is not unique to the my Englander. Feeding in just one small log at a time as shown to burn down the charcoal ought to put out enough extra heat and is nice to look at as well. I suspect that the a key contributing "root cause" of the coaling problem is marginal draft as the previous posts have suggested but this looks like a terriffic workaround. I'll certainly explore this option before I try to figure out how to add another length of stove pipe.

-Anthony-

And "Plan B" will be to always make sure I have lots of things to BBQ. If I still have huge coals come dinner time, I'll take it as "a sign". Something oddly satisfying (and tasty) about cooking with your own home made oak charcoal. When life deals you a bed of charcoal.... BBQ.