News on Blaze King Sentry 14?

[AILDWarrior]

I'm one of those people BKVP is referencing. I love the Jotul F602 V2, but if outside temps are above 25F, it'll cook us out of the 700sqft house after two or more reloads. Plus, I'm reloading every 2-3 hours, 12-14 hours a day. Every time, I'm introducing a small window for new creosote formation.

I would love to have a stove that fits in the same space, radiates less heat, and burns 5-10 hours, potentially even leaving me some coals in the morning. The Sentry 14 seems to address all those requirements, and I'm assuming many other people in similar situations to mine are looking for the same solution. My method for the air cleanliness Todd brought up is an air purifier, but I need that anyway with the Jotul, so for me it's not a breaking point.

 

[Egbert Souse']

I'm one of those people BKVP is referencing. I love the Jotul F602 V2, but if outside temps are above 25F, it'll cook us out of the 700sqft house after two or more reloads. Plus, I'm reloading every 2-3 hours, 12-14 hours a day. Every time, I'm introducing a small window for new creosote formation.

I would love to have a stove that fits in the same space, radiates less heat, and burns 5-10 hours, potentially even leaving me some coals in the morning. The Sentry 14 seems to address all those requirements, and I'm assuming many other people in similar situations to mine are looking for the same solution. My method for the air cleanliness Todd brought up is an air purifier, but I need that anyway with the Jotul, so for me it's not a breaking point.

I use a Venta LW45 humidifier in my house near the wood stove and while it's not a traditional air purifier, it traps particles/hair/dirt/ash and dust into the water bath all while doing a great job humidifying my 100+ year old house. Venta also sells a humidifying air purifier but its $1800. I'll stick with the LW45. Plus, it runs on tap water!

 

[Dieselhead]

Convection stoves suck up room air along with allergy particles, dust and other bad stuff and circulate it around your home.

so does walking.

 

[Tron]

Yes they do.

Agreed. But as you already mentioned, radiant heaters create a lot of convection, too. It's just physics.
So I don't buy the "healthier" argument, either.

 

[Todd]

Googled it. I know they push this in larger masonry stoves. I suppose the larger the mass the gentler the heat. Wood stoves probably less difference between the two but with all the different wood stoves I’ve burned over the years I can tell the difference and different floor plans benefit from either or.

Summary
Radiant heat wood stoves can be healthier than convective stoves due to their heating method.

Heating Efficiency
Radiant stoves directly heat surfaces and people in the room, providing a more consistent warmth without the need to heat the air first. This can lead to a more comfortable environment, especially for those with respiratory issues, as it reduces the circulation of dust and allergens that can occur with convective heating.

Air Quality
Since radiant stoves do not rely on air movement to distribute heat, they may contribute to better indoor air quality by minimizing the stirring up of dust and other particles.

Comfort Level
Radiant heat provides a more even distribution of warmth, which can enhance comfort levels in a home.

Considerations
However, it is essential to consider the specific needs of the household, as radiant stoves may not heat larger spaces as effectively as convection stoves, which circulate warm air more rapidly.

 

[Tron]

Radiant heat provides a more even distribution of warmth

Don't believe everything Google tells you, especially if it's AI-generated.
The above statement is simply not true. Radiant heat generates a very uneven distribution of heat, simply because of the inverse square law I stated earlier.
You can try to beat physics, but physics will always win.

 

[stoveliker]

As I noted above, I take issue with the lower circulation of air with a radiant stove.
First, there is a hotter surface exposed to the room temperature air. That drives strong convection near the stove (b/c convection is about relative temperature differences). In a convective stove that convection merely takes place between layers of the stove, leading to radiant outer surfaces that are lower in temperature. But that does not take away that the hot exposed surfaces of a stove that radiates much, don't also have strong convection.
(And I think that walking and closing and opening doors creates more eddies, turbulence, whipping up dust etc. than any stove convection...)

Radiant heat provides, *by definition* (and because of physics) less even distribution of heat.
First, it falls of as the square of teh distance. So large (perceived) temperature differences near and far from the stove. Air movement in fact evens out the heat distribution in a space.

 

[Tron]

(And I think that walking and closing and opening doors creates more eddies, turbulence, whipping up dust etc. than any stove convection...)

Very likely, given that the stove convection is in an equilibrium over time, so less disturbances compared to opening doors and walking around.

 

[bigealta]

I love to Bake by my Jotul f400. It's the best.
I want to feel like i'm about to combust. I'll stay with a stove that can make that happen.

But that Sentry looks good too. I'd definitely take a look at it if i ever need a smaller stove.

 

[stoveliker]

I love to Bake by my Jotul f400. It's the best.
I want to feel like i'm about to combust. I'll stay with a stove that can make that happen.

That is perfectly fine and understandable - preferences differ.
I like to sit in front of my BK sometimes too, warming up the bones, and ending up with (too) red skin under my pants... I guess it is a bit like sauna visits; it's nice to do this.
Similar to back when I lived in TN. My car would get up to 140 F. After a day in (too cold...) AC, I would drive away in my car and warm up a bit before switching on the AC (it's okay to call me nuts...). I liked that feel.

 

[AILDWarrior]

It would be interesting to conduct a study in a hermetically sealed room with a known amount of particulate pollution and test the air quality after running a mostly-radiant stove versus a mostly-convective stove. My theory is that the convective stove would increase the pollution ppm. Because of the shielded design, the convective stoves are simultaneously conducting convective and radiant heating in a much smaller air space between the stove walls. This would increase the mass air flow rate and stir up more material, to Todd's point. However, I would argue that vacuuming or sweeping your house on a regular basis causes even more disruption than either stove. If air quality is a concern, I think it's important to filter out the pollutants regardless of what type of stove one is using, the particles are there whether you stir them up or not.

As I write this, it's currently 20F outside and my house went from 68F to 77F with two splits in the Jotul 602. Some people can live like this, but I like to keep my sauna separate from my home. That's why I'm very excited about the Sentry, it provides a better solution for full-time heating that also provides a more reasonable heat output.

Also, the perceived heat from radiant heating is more of a "feeling" than an actual indication of heat transfer or efficiency. Physical materials are very effective at absorbing electromagnetic waves and much less effective at conducting heat from a warmer fluid (in this case, air). It takes a much smaller BTU dose from radiant heat to make you feel warm vs being heated by the air around you. I think it really does come down to what you like, and what works best for your situation. I'm certainly interested in learning more about particulate distribution now, I never paid much mind to it until now.

 

[Tron]

It would be interesting to conduct a study in a hermetically sealed room with a known amount of particulate pollution and test the air quality after running a mostly-radiant stove versus a mostly-convective stove. My theory is that the convective stove would increase the pollution ppm.

I can help you partially with that. I have a convective stove (Chinook 30).
I built an air quality monitor that sits about 5' from the stove, precisely to find out if running the stove affects air quality and log the data. I measure CO2, VOC, NOx, PM1.0, PM2.5 and PM10 (three separate sensors). My findings are:
- Running the stove does not increase PM measurements, unless I open the door to reload, then they sometimes shoot up for a while (not very surprising).
- Running the stove actually lowers CO2 levels. Also not surprising as the stove does not have an OAK and so draws air from the house, which has to be replenished with fresh outside air.
- Cooking in the kitchen (roughly 30' from the sensor and stove) affects air quality way more than the stove does, even with a commercial vent hood, mostly by causing a high VOC index, but also a bit of a rise in PM.
- Proofing pizza dough really gets the VOC going, as does baking something in the electric oven ;-)

 

[stoveliker]

So, sit still and don't cook (i.e. order take out) - and you'll be healthy ?

 

[Tron]

So, sit still and don't cook (i.e. order take out) - and you'll be healthy ?

Kinda.
There probably are some perturbations due to movement, but to prevent too much jitter and to filter out outliers I measure every six seconds and average those ten measurements every minute, which then gets logged. So just going through the room likely won't show up.

And it's not like having some VOC's in the air is immediately unhealthy, especially from cooking.
Those (rather cheap) sensors capture all kinds of organic compounds, and only some of them are unhealthy. Stuff like paint, fuel, cleaners, etc. Cooking odors most certainly not. At least I've not seen a lawsuit for "Cook's disease" on TV.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. But as you already mentioned, radiant heaters create a lot of convection, too. It's just physics.
So I don't buy the "healthier" argument, either.

Agree. We have a convective stove and dust is not an issue at all. It's much worse in the summer when we have the windows open due to the dirt driveway, but not in the winter.

 

[Highbeam]

I believe that all stoves are both convective and radiant. Sure, some a little more convective with a blower. After having owned stoves from both extremes (stone to BK) I have found no real difference in how warm my space gets. So the arguments about convective vs. radiant are like splitting hairs. No difference in dust or health either. All types of stoves are perfectly capable of being hot.

As I write this, it's currently 20F outside and my house went from 68F to 77F with two splits in the Jotul 602. Some people can live like this, but I like to keep my sauna separate from my home. That's why I'm very excited about the Sentry, it provides a better solution for full-time heating that also provides a more reasonable heat output.

This is why many of us moved to BK stoves. The low and slow output fits real life homes much better than pulse and glide of noncat designs. Trying to match heat loss through the walls to heat produced from the stove seems ideal. The long burn times are much more convenient.

On this sentry, can you load the 16" splits north south or is it a chuck and slam sideways loader? I do like the 1" clearance and low output numbers, that solves some of the problems with the 20 series stoves that didn't quite fill the need.

 

[AILDWarrior]

I believe that all stoves are both convective and radiant.

Exactly right. As far as I'm aware, the only source of pure radiant heat is the Sun. Even then, much of its heat is transferred via convection anyway when it heats physical materials in our homes and they transfer heat to their colder surroundings.

Now, I've spent a bit of time sitting in thermodynamics classes learning about this stuff, but @Highbeam just presented something that stumped me. I've been around the Hearthstone Lincoln and have my own Jotul F 602. Similar fireboxes, similar burn times, similar surface temps. Neither are considered "convection" stoves. Theoretically, all the BTUs are going into the room, and once the soapstone is warmed up on the Lincoln, the heat transfer rate should be the same right? From an engineering perspective, the emissivity of soapstone and painted cast iron are nearly the same (0.90, roughly). Why, then, does the Lincoln feel like a much softer heat than the Jotul? (I know this is a BK page, but I think this question might be relevant to someone who might be trying to make a decision between these three stoves.)

 

[Highbeam]

Exactly right. As far as I'm aware, the only source of pure radiant heat is the Sun. Even then, much of its heat is transferred via convection anyway when it heats physical materials in our homes and they transfer heat to their colder surroundings.

Now, I've spent a bit of time sitting in thermodynamics classes learning about this stuff, but @Highbeam just presented something that stumped me. I've been around the Hearthstone Lincoln and have my own Jotul F 602. Similar fireboxes, similar burn times, similar surface temps. Neither are considered "convection" stoves. Theoretically, all the BTUs are going into the room, and once the soapstone is warmed up on the Lincoln, the heat transfer rate should be the same right? From an engineering perspective, the emissivity of soapstone and painted cast iron are nearly the same (0.90, roughly). Why, then, does the Lincoln feel like a much softer heat than the Jotul? (I know this is a BK page, but I think this question might be relevant to someone who might be trying to make a decision between these three stoves.)

If both stoves are the same temperature and you close your eyes, I don’t think you could tell a difference. Often, people run the stone stoves cooler.

 

[Todd]

Exactly right. As far as I'm aware, the only source of pure radiant heat is the Sun. Even then, much of its heat is transferred via convection anyway when it heats physical materials in our homes and they transfer heat to their colder surroundings.

Now, I've spent a bit of time sitting in thermodynamics classes learning about this stuff, but @Highbeam just presented something that stumped me. I've been around the Hearthstone Lincoln and have my own Jotul F 602. Similar fireboxes, similar burn times, similar surface temps. Neither are considered "convection" stoves. Theoretically, all the BTUs are going into the room, and once the soapstone is warmed up on the Lincoln, the heat transfer rate should be the same right? From an engineering perspective, the emissivity of soapstone and painted cast iron are nearly the same (0.90, roughly). Why, then, does the Lincoln feel like a much softer heat than the Jotul? (I know this is a BK page, but I think this question might be relevant to someone who might be trying to make a decision between these three stoves.)

I think it has to do with the thicker mass of the stone. It doesn’t get as hot as the cast iron. I can see the difference between on my stove. The cast iron loading door is much hotter than the opposite soapstone side when taking temp readings. You can also feel the difference just by placing your hand next to either side. When I had the F45 the side convection panels ran even cooler than the soapstone side of the Fireview which I think softened the radiant heat quite a bit. Probably too much for my liking.

I wouldn’t mind trying out this new BK. It would probably be fine for 80% of my needs but may be a little underpowered for when it hits -20-40’s. I think the Sirroco20 would be a better fit for me.

 

[stoveliker]

The aspect not being taken into account in the above discussion is that the heat shedding of any of these stoves (except the BK), is not even in time.

The above (stone vs cast iron feeling hotter) applies to the max temp in the burn cycle only; the stone one warms up a bit slower, and stays warmer longer, meaning it's shedding (the same # of BTUs, if that's what their specs say) over a longer time, meaning the peak shedding is lower ("doesn't get as hot").
But for a significant amount of time in the burn beyond the peak, the stone WILL feel warmer than the cast iron, as the cast iron is cooling down much faster than the stone is.

High narrower temperature peak vs lower broader temperature peak.

 

[AILDWarrior]

Another thing I didn't consider is the Lincoln's use of a catalyst. I'm sure that slows down the burn rate more than the Jotul, evening out the heat flux over a full cycle.

 

[Highbeam]

Another thing I didn't consider is the Lincoln's use of a catalyst. I'm sure that slows down the burn rate more than the Jotul, evening out the heat flux over a full cycle.

Hard to say. Hearthstone seems to have only added cats to their stoves when forced to for emissions compliance around 2020. Usually this band aid approach doesn't get you the benefits of a catalyst you would see in a purpose built cat stove like a woodstock or BK. Cleaner emissions, yes. Higher efficiency, longer burn times, lower available burn rate, not always.

 

[Tron]

The low and slow output fits real life homes much better than pulse and glide of noncat designs.

Back overseas we had a noncat that was technically "pulse and glide", but it was a masonry stove built into the house and weighed probably five tons. So a huge thermal mass. You fired it up, air was supplied by a flap in the door, and by the time the wood was consumed two hours later the outside of the stove had barely warmed up. But it continued to "glide" more than 12 hours.
The only negative about it was that you had to plan your burns well regarding the forecasted outside temperature, because there was literally no way to regulate that thing. Baked us out of the house a couple times until we figured out the best way to run it.

 

[begreen]

Hard to say. Hearthstone seems to have only added cats to their stoves when forced to for emissions compliance around 2020. Usually this band aid approach doesn't get you the benefits of a catalyst you would see in a purpose built cat stove like a woodstock or BK. Cleaner emissions, yes. Higher efficiency, longer burn times, lower available burn rate, not always.

The Hearthstone Lincoln is a hybrid. Do we know if the BK is a hybrid? If not, it may do a better job at low and slow like its siblings, especially if thermostatically regulated.

 

[BKVP]

The Hearthstone Lincoln is a hybrid. Do we know if the BK is a hybrid? If not, it may do a better job at low and slow like its siblings, especially if thermostatically regulated.

Identical engineering as other Blaze King stoves, just much smaller. Thermostat, straight cat technology.

BKVP