Non listed burner

[Sberry]

I had a risk audit and everything in several buildings passed except for my shop burner. I should have worked on it a bit, the chimney is ok and I can see why per the code but havnt looked in to detail about the burner. I am looking for a listed furnace which may be easiest but this works so well and is tailored to the point it will be hard to replace how well it works.
So far may have found a clist option. says it takes 36 inch logs but so far don't know the btu rating.
I was looking for the non listed rules to see if there was an option to replacement, likely none easier though.

 

[Lake Girl]

You need to get that old oil tank gone... Lucky that you haven't had a catastrophe using that.

 

[bholler]

the chimney is ok

You mean the pipe with insulation duct taped to it is fine? I don't think so

 

[Lake Girl]

There is a Hot Blast furnace in Free Soil, Mi for $600 that should have a UL rating plate on back and exterior looks lIke it hasn't been mistreated. Made by USSC I think, new they're going for $1400. For shop install I think it needs to be 18" off the ground. Still have to deal with the chimney though as what you have is no where near legal. Work with your local building or fire inspector on what is acceptable.

 

[Sberry]

Ok, back to this. The chimney did have the tape removed and was sheeted. The stove wouldnt have looked so bad if I would have sided it and had considered fixing it which I should have but am going to replace it. I just missed a deal but was long way and thanks for the tip about Freesoil, could have a truck there in an hour. I had the door off this crate yesterday and put auto damp on it, looking for some chain now. I will demo this stove though and am going to save the door assembly when its all over.
Aint a chance a guy could link me to the Freesoil deal.?
As to the stove. It is warped and we had intended on replacing it anyway or remodeling it. Some of the distortion was from sidewall bracing and poor welding maybe as well as burning trash as incinerator especially during paint work.
The only real issue we ever had was gas backed up from trash at start up or when someone shoved it full and didnt manage well from a cold start. When it was un attended it was fueled with dry enough wood on a warm system, filled modestly and with a damper that was limited. Fan blowing over it. We had a minor fire in the chimney clean out but the pipe is clean. It doesnt happen now as it is so easy to maintain and clearance to combustables is 3 ft.
There are probably other things made it unsafe, I am a believer in UL and am careful not to fool with fundamentals of safety design.

 

[Lake Girl]

Sorry forgot to mention it's on craigslist

Northern Michigan site search hot blast.

Edit: central Michigan listing

 

[bholler]

The chimney did have the tape removed and was sheeted

What do you mean it was sheeted? What type of chimney is it?

 

[Sberry]

What do you mean it was sheeted? What type of chimney is it?

Its .375 wall steep pipe, one piece with a welded thimble, wrapped in fiber glass with a layer of fire resistant paper outside simple tie wire bands to hold it all in place till it was wrapped with a cover sheet. I will have to get a pic. My camera has been giving fits and am working on it. all the pics here are several years old.
I have been looking thru the list a little and may have to do a wanted. We found one but it was so far away it was a bit of an issue and probably would have had to send a truck to pick it. It took 36 inch material, guy says he heated big house, 3600 ft.
I see a lot ;listed but they are really too small.

 

[bholler]

Its .375 wall steep pipe, one piece with a welded thimble, wrapped in fiber glass with a layer of fire resistant paper outside simple tie wire bands to hold it all in place till it was wrapped with a cover sheet. I will have to get a pic. My camera has been giving fits and am working on it. all the pics here are several years old.

That does not meet any code at all your insurance did not call you on that as well? How does it pass thru the roof?

 

[Sberry]

That does not meet any code at all your insurance did not call you on that as well? How does it pass thru the roof?

I realize they didnt call it out and dint really know any better but it is steel flashed, fiber glass and a roof jack around it for water. Steel roofing. I set it thru the roof with a crane.

 

[bholler]

I realize they didnt call it out and dint really know any better but it is steel flashed, fiber glass and a roof jack around it for water. Steel roofing. I set it thru the roof with a crane.

If the building steel structure? If not how close is the framing?

 

[Sberry]

If the building steel structure? If not how close is the framing?

Yes, pre engineered steel building, fiber glass insulation. Nothing combustible within 3 ft of the stove or chimney. Biggest danger would be if it had a full charge and managed to go long time with door or air wide open and overheat it till it collapsed I spose but we had it about as hot as it can get and when its loaded proper isn't working hard. Air tight, can damp it to a stall if you wanted.
I have worked on a lot of stoves and furnaces, have tried to build a couple furnaces back in the day and wont do it as it is a problem to build over heat protection in to them.

 

[bholler]

Yes, pre engineered steel building, fiber glass insulation.

Ok what type of fiberglass some is flammable some is not. And how close is it to the pipe. Honestly none of this matters much because nothing about this meets code anyway.

 

[Sberry]

Ok what type of fiberglass some is flammable some is not. And how close is it to the pipe. Honestly none of this matters much because nothing about this meets code anyway.

Yes it does matter code or not. Just because it doesn't meet the letter doesn't mean it shouldn't work correctly. In the same way because its not listed doesn't mean it shouldn't have thermal shutdown or proper clearance.

 

[Sberry]

I did read some of the code, not enough to know anything but see some differences in industrial and residential. I noticed they specifically prohibited the use of well casing in one place, don't recall where but then did see a chart for steel pipe with clearance etc. But, I only glanced. I have read most of the electric code and some of trucking in areas particular to my use along with the general.
I seen a lot of ways to cobble this, seen a lot of work by contractors involving fireplaces and chimneys that is downright negligent. I agree that for a couple reasons this whole scheme shouldn't pass and didn't but the main thing he said they wanted to rul out the use of barrel stoves and such and this definitely meets that. I had intended at some point of building one that would have been rather in distinguished do to speak and should have as I really had time.
As it is the man asked me to replace it. The only item on a fairly wide audit and I kind of knew this going in and should have corrected it prior, my bad. I could put a fuel oil burner in and he would sign off.

 

[Lake Girl]

Exactly how big is the shop? Estimation on BTUs needed?

 

[bholler]

Just because it doesn't meet the letter doesn't mean it shouldn't work correctly.

I agree it could work fine that is why I was asking specifics about the install. And yes you can use single wall pipe inside but once you pass through the roof or wall it need to transition to chimney. With the construction of your building as long as the insulation is non combustible there really is no safety issue with the chimney. The stove is a different story

 

[Sberry]

I agree it could work fine that is why I was asking specifics about the install. And yes you can use single wall pipe inside but once you pass through the roof or wall it need to transition to chimney. With the construction of your building as long as the insulation is non combustible there really is no safety issue with the chimney. The stove is a different story

I agree which is why I didn't object when he said it had to go, I said yes sir and will get another one UL if you will buy that and he said yes. As I mentioned I missed out on one the other day which was a bit of a hike to get. We insulated the pie early on, being behind on wood didn't help but it was so tall was a super heat sink and didn't seem to warm too draft well as it is so tall. We had the section thru the roof insulated and sheeted but finally did the whole thing
The old stove has done its thing and we somewhat looking at some changes anyway and we had fixed a couple of its issues. It was un enclosed like a common stove and never really gave us a problem and had right about a thousand cord of wood thru it, maybe 50 or 60 a year. I didn't try to hide it, the insurance was a good incentive to make a change.
Probably as important as anything here is the simple fact an enclosed would prevent something from being set against it. That has almost happened but it was during start up.
I did have another issue with a masonry in another house which I am a bit embarrassed about, it turned out ok and could have been worse, someone lit a fire when they shouldn't have and we hadn't serviced it, it was neglected for sure.
This is a good forum, thanks for help and now if you can tell he where I put my box of rope gasket or if I used it all it would be great.

 

[Sberry]

Exactly how big is the shop? Estimation on BTUs needed?

My shop is 6400 ft and 20 ft tall. 100K or 150 will heat it but wont make up extra. The way we wrinkled this was burning trash wide open during paint work which doesn't happen so much but it was somewhat ideal where we parked wet cold cars (somewhat) next to it and could fan the air under them.
I only heat to 50-55 or so and it actually warms up as the snow falls. I was trying for another pic but there was a problem.

 

[Lake Girl]

Same here with the snowfall due to insulating around the base and on the roof. With some of the extremes we get, it actually warms up closer to freezing to snow!

What kind of budget for your replacement? There is a mini-caddy furnace 190000 btu in Charlevoix for $2,000 on craigslist. Starting $3800 (blower $1000 more) new which would be the way I would go (new).

 

[Sberry]

Same here with the snowfall due to insulating around the base and on the roof. With some of the extremes we get, it actually warms up closer to freezing to snow!

What kind of budget for your replacement? There is a mini-caddy furnace 190000 btu in Charlevoix for $2,000 on craigslist. Starting $3800 (blower $1000 more) new which would be the way I would go (new).

I screwed up on a used unit for 700 or so but it was a ways away and probably should have hotshot someone down to look at it. I would rather get something used if I could, we have a full welding and fab shop, its not a deal for us to repair something.

 

[Sberry]

Yes it does matter code or not. Just because it doesn't meet the letter doesn't mean it shouldn't work correctly. In the same way because its not listed doesn't mean it shouldn't have thermal shutdown or proper clearance.

I didn't mean to imply that code violations were safe with that response. Only that while one area may be deficient and marginal doesn't allow me to add further complications.
We may replace the chimney but in the mean time we cant ignore the possibility it would overheat or that we can store a pail with 5 gallons of gas and a bundle of newspapers on and under it. Our saving grace always was clearance, operators and tidiness, when we did have some problem attempt a resolution as we are going to do now. I really could have and should have a sprink head here too.