Not enough draft

[larryjbjr]

Ok. My stove, an Englander 30NCH, is in the basement. I have 2' single wall pipe straight up, then a double wall 90, then 2 feet of double wall pipe into 1 foot of double wall supervent chimney that goes through the wall, then the supervent T, then 20 feet of supervent chimney up the outside of the house, with a 15° offset around the eave of the house, resulting in 5 feet of supervent above the roof to a rain cap.

Anyhow, I have very poor draft. Usually I get smoke in the basement when I start a fire. Once it gets burning, I do get a little smoke when I open the door. But I have a hard time getting the fire going, and very difficult time getting any secondary burn.

Also, for what it’s worth, I have a two-story house with two wings on it and the chimney is coming up the side of the west wing. I think it goes about 3 1/2 feet above the peak of the roof of the west wing, then the second story is about 20 feet away from that. So basically the top of the chimney is still about 2 or 3 feet below the peak of the main part of the house.

I know that the 2 90s will reduce draft and I believe that being below the highest part of the house will reduce draft. I cannot afford at this point to fix both. If it were you, which of the two would you fix? Replace the 2 90s with two 45s, or add another 3 feet of chimney to raise it above the peak of the main part of the house?

 

[saydinli]

Looks like your house is being a better chimney than your actual chimney. This is called "stack effect". Try opening a window a crack in the room where the stove is and she if that improves draft. Try and eliminate any air leaks on the upper levels to help prevent the reverse draft.

Here's an article describing your situation..
http://woodheat.org/how-chimneys-work.html

 

[ckr74]

I wouldn't mix double wall with single wall pipe. Make sure all the pipe is sealed and not leaking. Also get rid if the 90 deg. and use two 45's. 90's look better but two 45's work better usually.

 

[kennyp2339]

pretty dirty cap you have there judging by the stains coming down the class a pipe, perhaps a less restrictive cap could help. Also burning dry wood, I don't really care if wood has been "seasoned" just make sure its dry by using a moisture meter on a freshly split piece of wood at room temp, you should be burning around 20% moisture content or lower. I also see what appears to be new windows and a lot of new insulation, does the stove operate better if a window is cracked open?

 

[Squisher]

I would check your rear clearances and see if you can move the stove closer to the wall reducing your long horizontal run.

Also double check your connecting pipes. Male down(inner pipe on double wall), make sure creosote can't escape. Is that some creosote on the stovetop? Little bits showered down out of a pipe connection? Mixing connecting pipe is never a good idea and should be avoided if possible.

Your chimney meets the 3-2-10 rule so I wouldn't extend it until you've exhausted other avenues. Such as cleaning up the connecting pipe connections and orientation, shortening that horizontal run if possible and exploring the other options mentioned. Like the possibility of negative pressure, wood moisture, and chimney/cap cleanliness.

Two 45's will flow much better than a 90.

And lastly. Take that stovetop thermometer and put it on the single wall stovepipe12-18" above the flue collar. Or better yet get a second thermometer and place it there and move your stovetop thermometer to 4-6"s from the flue collar and offset from center.

 

[Enplater]

Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not but I have almost identical setup ( same stove and chimney) but I went from 1 90 to 2 45's over the summer and it seemed to make a difference. I also suffer from stack effect when first lighting up so I open the basement window and door to the garage and the draft reverses to normal so I get a smoke free light. Also burn seasoned wood like previously mentioned, this stove needs it. The other thing I did was add a steel rod to take up the gap in the ceramic fiber boards and restrict one of the dog house air intake holes on the bottom of the stove with a magnet. I think I used some magnets to restrict the secondary air intake hole a little too.
I would try using the (2) 45's single wall black pipe and shorten the horizontal run as much as possible.

 

[Enplater]

 

[Enplater]

This is what I currently have

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah, (2) 45's are better than (1) 90

 

[begreen]

Yes, soften the 90 and get that insulation paper at least far away from the stove pipe. It needs to be at least 12" from the thimble and 18" from single wall pipe.

 

[larryjbjr]

OK, I got rid of the 90 and replaced it with a 2 45s. Here’s what it looks like now.

Just started a fire and so far it definitely seems to have made a difference.

 

[larryjbjr]

I had to use a little more pipe that I wanted to because my thimble is so high up.

I replaced the singlewall pipe with double wall pipe. So now, what should my flue temperature be?

 

[Mike M.]

Consider an outside air intake. I put one on my 30 in the basement and it made a huge difference.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

 

[larryjbjr]

What would the outside air intake do for me?

My basement has plenty of drafts. So I don’t think it’s a lack of air. But I could be wrong.

 

[kennyp2339]

I just noticed your rafters.. very cool

 

[Mike M.]

What would the outside air intake do for me?

My basement has plenty of drafts. So I don’t think it’s a lack of air. But I could be wrong.

It helped my draft significantly. The positive air connection is just different than opening a window. Plus it's dirt cheap, maybe $20 tops. I used cheap 30 ga. metal pipe. The 30 already has a place to connect the pipe.

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[begreen]

Well done, softening the 90 turn can make a good improvement. This may be all you need. Try it for awhile. If it drafts ok, even in milder weather, then it could be fine.

Surface temps on double-wall stove pipe are not particularly meaningful. There is a layer of air between the inner and outer metal layers. A probe thermometer will provide more accurate flue gas temps. It is designed for double-wall stove pipe. I think I'd mount it on the side of the pipe.
http://www.condar.com/Probe_Thermometers.html