OK, I'm Converting. Enough Is Enough !

[Dix]

I am joining the "Coven". Count me in !

2000 sq foot home, includes seperate accessory apartment of 550 sq feet. Currently heated by OHW baseboard.

Main part of house has a FP w/passive heatolators.

Ceiling fans throught, with the ability for up/down airflow. FP w/heatolators (needs a damper, no glass doors) located in den, takes 2 hours to throw solid heat (embers MUST be hot and alot of 'em to get it cranking) Thermostat in den (moving that out of the room), den can get to 75 degrees when it 0 degrees outside, and with other ceiling fans pulling and pushing heat down, house (aside from apartment, and the Master, which are on the same heat zone from the oil furnace) can be maintained to 62-65 degrees. I burned 3 + cords of wood this past winter. Gas stove in kitchen (propane), and I love to cook.

I have thought abouth the FP blower unit & glass doors. I have to wonder about that.

I am semi torn between an insert in the FP, and a free standing wood stove in the living room. My feeling is that I'll get more bang for my buck by the stove in the living room, direct vented through the ceiling (1 story), with the more open floor plan of the main house, than containing the heat more in the den with an insert. Plus I'm watching my $$$$'s.

I'll be burning oak and hardwoods.

I have experience with keeping stoves going, this house was heated with coal stoves (3) until I realized how much soot and debris settled in the house, rugs, etc, and we were always sick (1970 - 1987 or so, for stove types available then). If there was a reasonable coal stove that wouldn't pollute the house, I might be interested. The heat was astounding.

I figure if I can heat the apartment & the master with the OHW, and use that for HW for the entire house, and maintain the heat in the main house with a stove or insert, I'll be ahead of the game. Plus the walls being warmer in main part of house, will help with the apartment if walls are warm.

New windows going in, I am insulating under the main house crawl space, which houses the pipes for the heat & hot water. Styrofaom under the floor, new basement windows (current are 30 + years old), and hot water pipe insulation. I already have the material.

If anyone hasn't fallen asleep at their key board by now, I'd love to have some responses

 

[Burd]

I never seen a fire place like that NOW THATS COOL Do you plan on puting your stove or insert right there If your put in a stove it might take up space a you'll have to move your coffee table Now I have and insert and I heat 1700 sq with no problem and its a lot cleaner then the open fire place. We get really good heat and the family is not as sick.I have forced hot air that really didnty heat up the wall at all and with this insert I noticed that every thing stays much warmer.
NO matter what you pick youll have better efficence then and open fire place and a lot less work.You can put three or four peacie of wood in the stove or insert and it can burn up to 6 to12 hour depending on witch modle you pick.
Good luck and make sure you take the time and find some thing that youll like there many to chose from

 

[webbie]

If you have the room for a freestanding stove....then that certainly gives you a lot more options than the insert. You will probably get greater efficiency from it also. Given that extra work you are doing on tightening up the ship, I predict that even one stove will do a lot to lower your fuel bill. It is wise to think of stoves as saving from 50-80% of your heat load. If you really want 100%, then you often need multiple units and/or wood burning central heating.

More good news is that the newer stoves are quite efficiency and clean - and nice looking!

You might want to start shopping with some of the products on our products page:
https://www.hearth.com/prod.html

and also check which brands are available at any local stove outlets. We have owners here with just about EVERY brand, so as you narrow it down we can help even more. Good luck.

 

[Dix]

Thank you both for responding

I love the look of the FP, Burd, thank you. I'll be keeping it for ambiance, with new damper & doors. It will be nice around the holidays.


I have the room for a free standing stove, it would butt up against the back of the fireplace (quick firewall, I think). Where the chimney would go, is where the old coal stove chimney was, so the ceiling & roof are already boxed out. I would not vent through the masonary chimney.

I have looked at Northern Tool, and liked a Vogelzang Durango, but read here that it is not a very well made stove. But I wonder with the cost, if it won't siut my needs for a few years,and then sell the house. Installation $$$$'s included. I also thought maybe the Vogelzang "The Mountaineer" .

But, if I am being to cheap, I would like to know that, as well.

 

[Hogwildz]

If your looking for a great stove on a limited budget. check out Englanders, excellent quality & customer service.

 

[Burd]

Im a Newbie at this so and I dont no much. But one thing is for sure if and when you purchase a new one your going to get better heat. It wount take two hours to heat up. My fan will kick in about 15 min and when its hot and I load it up with a couple peaices of wood it will burn for hours 8to9hours Take a good look around the internet and youll find something that you wished you did years ago
Good luck
Have you had your chiminey checked lately

 

[Dix]

No, I haven't had the FP chimney checked in 5 years... we did have a bird in the house, and figured it came down the chimney, since capped/vented. But with the damper replaced and glass doors installed, I will also be having the FP chimney cleaned.

Thanks for the lead on the Englanders, Hog, I'm off to check them out !

 

[jpl1nh]

Yup Englander, nope Vogelzang.

 

[DriftWood]

You could put a wood stove in fount of the fireplace. Or a wood boiler in next to the water heater (best option). Ask about this in the boiler room forum. I had not water options so I placed a stove in fount of the fireplace.


HearthStone Heritage break in fire!!

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3106/

 

[grizzly2]

I moved my wood stove out to the garage for intermittent heat, and put a Hitzer 30-95 gravity fed, air tight coal stove in the hourse. I couldn't be happier. The coal I get has been oiled, so no coal dust in the house. Stoke it up once or twice per day (24 hours) and shake the grates 2X per day. It is much cleaner, and almost no dust from ash handling. In your application I would probably install a stainless steel chimney liner in the old coal stove chimney and vent with that. If the masonry is good, I would use that chimney as is. Coal exhaust is acidic and masonry is ideal.

If you do go with wood, I will say that I have liked the two Jotul woodstoves I have had over the years. I would rather buy a used quality woodstove than a new cheap one. :coolgrin:

 

[Dix]

I went to a local "FP/Woodstove" place today, and expanded my horizons beyond internet research

I was looking at wood stoves, and eyed a nice wood burning stove, but as I was talking to the people on the floor, and explained the fireplace situation, ceiling fans, etc, they recommended the FP insert.

The logic was that most of the work is done aside from the chimney insert, and the cost of the insert as opposed to the cost of buying and installing the wood stove that the $$$'s would work out.

Their recoomendation was a Dutchwest DV2500X02, which I know is made by Vermont Castings, but I was told that THIS insert is not made in China, as their others are *insert dazed and confused look here*

(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=325)

Roughly $2000 out the door, chimney, insert, connectors, etc. Self Install. I believe there is enough knowledge in my circle to get the job done. Inserts & wood stoves are all around me, and others are installing now.

The FP measurements are 32" W X 24" H X 25" deep.

$2000 I can deal with. My qoute on the wood stove (which was a Vermont Castings) was $4000, installed.

 

[webbie]

Shogun,

Vermont Castings is in chapter 11 bankruptcy - this makes the 2nd time in 3 years they have gone belly-up, and so far no takers (for their business).
Strangely enough, their web site is not responding right now, but I suppose it will be up soon.

The steel DW model that I think you are looking at is unlikely to be continued, as I think the plant that made them in Indiana has shut down and laid everyone off.

(broken link removed)

Just FYI so you can make an informed decision...

 

[RedRanger]

You want real heat?? buy the summit!! jazz it up with the gold door and gold trim for the surround.. and you will be nice and toasty come this winter.

 

[Highbeam]

Of course that dealership thought that you would be best served by THEIR white elephant insert that is no longer made and with little chance of warranty support or parts availabililty. The thing about smallish stove shops is that what they have in stock is quite likely to be ideal for everyone's situation. Stay far away from any VC product.

I had an insert in a masonry chimney and was not happy with the noise made by the blower which had to be on 100% of the time to get heat out of the insert. That was a LOPI and maybe other brands are quieter but I really appreciate the silence from my freestanding stove.

If I was in coal country I would seriously consider using that cheap source of fuel for primary heat. Check out modern coal stoves for one with low mess.

 

[grizzly2]

Hitzer, and many other companies make inserts if you are sure you want to go that route. From all I have read, I wouln't go with Dutchwest enven if they hadn't gone out of business. How about a free standing vented into your current fireplace. Just set the stove in front of the fireplace opening.

 

[Burd]

I have the napolean insert and it gets hot real hot Dont waste yout money on the gold trim.
Look at the napoleaon it has a nice controled heat and you can get the kit and insert under$2000.00heats 2200sq and 8to 9 hpurs of burn time Plus they look good in the living room even when your not burning ;-)
Let us no what you get. Are you looking on the inter net

 

[Dix]

Thanks Guys, I was looking for confirmation on the VC. It struck me as a "push", and I hear you on the warranty issues, as I'm in home electronic repair, and deal with warranties & service contracts all day long.

I think that replacing the windows (32 YO Andersons), and the insulation will make a dramatic change on it's own. Insulation done, 3 windows to go.

Next weekend I hope to make trip to another store, and see where we stand. I guess it's kinda like when I bought my F250 PU, alot of internet shopping, and then it's time to hit the dealers for an actual looksee, then make an educated decision.

I have been shopping on the internet, Burd, but I have a problem with not being able to check something out in person, as opposed to buying it sight unseen. BUT I am not adverse to finding something I like locally, and if it can be had over the internet, and costs are less (shipping HAS increased dramatically), I would not be opposed to that.

The issue for me with venting a wood stove into the existing FP, is that the room is only 12' wide. I think that it would occupy to much "room"in the room itself.

The FP is in the middle of the house (I have a whole house diagram, but don't want to post it with out editing my personal info off the bottom of it, going to work on that).


The coal stoves make me leery. The dust, Lord, I remember the dust *shudders*. Went to change the carpets, and the padding & underflooring were black with coal dust. Plus, with allergies, it was like living with "oak trees in bloom in the spring 365/24/7".

 

[HeatsTwice]

I can vouch for the lousy quality of the Vermont Castings. I had the Encore Defiant which required replacment of all the cast iron inards every two years as well as the catalytic converter. So basically, every two years, I had to spend $600 on parts and 4 hours of work to keep the thing functional.

When I talked with dealers, they told me either "I was running it too hot" or I wasn't using the "right" fuel. All I could say is "Evidently, VC did not design the stove correctly".

I sold that POS and bought a Napoleon 1900 last year. It cruzes at 900 degrees, burns anything, and if I have to replace anything on it in the next 4 years, I should be given a metal. I know these two stoves and I know which one I like.

 

[Jags]

. It cruzes at 900 degrees

Is this stove top or flue temps that you are reporting?

If this is stove top temps, you ARE over firing the stove. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe ANY mfg of indoor wood burning appliances recommend that high of temps.

 

[HeatsTwice]

Hi,

It's the temperature as measured on the top horizontal steel surface of the stove.

There is no mension by the manufaturer of the max temperature. There have been others on this list which mension seeing the same temperature on the Napoleon 1900 - which does not indicate a problem with the stove. Actually I like it, as it keeps the place very warm.

I keep track of the flue temperature (which stays safely in range) and clean my chimney every year - so I am not some nut when it comes to stoves.

I feel perfectly secure ocationally operating the stove at this tempature.

 

[jeff6443]

I can vouch for the lousy quality of the Vermont Castings. I had the Encore Defiant which required replacment of all the cast iron inards every two years as well as the catalytic converter. So basically, every two years, I had to spend $600 on parts and 4 hours of work to keep the thing functional.

When I talked with dealers, they told me either "I was running it too hot" or I wasn't using the "right" fuel. All I could say is "Evidently, VC did not design the stove correctly".

I sold that POS and bought a Napoleon 1900 last year. It cruzes at 900 degrees, burns anything, and if I have to replace anything on it in the next 4 years, I should be given a metal. I know these two stoves and I know which one I like.

Wow my GF s defiant vermount castings could burn tin cans all night . No cats we learn to burn .First year here in my house vc dutch west . I had install in june . wood scrounger I ll let u know IF it works . Really hopeing so I tried to go low cost 4500.00 all in top to bottom . Trust me If it dont work I'LL tell ya . If my warrenty sucks I'LL tell ya .We all have to earn our money . Do it right . or your stealing JM

 

[begreen]

Hi,

It's the temperature as measured on the top horizontal steel surface of the stove.

There is no mension by the manufaturer of the max temperature. There have been others on this list which mension seeing the same temperature on the Napoleon 1900 - which does not indicate a problem with the stove. Actually I like it, as it keeps the place very warm.

I keep track of the flue temperature (which stays safely in range) and clean my chimney every year - so I am not some nut when it comes to stoves.

I feel perfectly secure ocationally operating the stove at this tempature.

So no mention by the mfg of the max temp means it's ok? I don't think running a stovetop at 900 regularly is what I would call safe burning. The big Napoleons are known to run hot and need to be watched. Napoleon recommends a 500-600 deg. stove top temp in the manual. Next time you're at 900, turn off the lights and lift the trivet lid. See if there is anything glowing under the outside skin.

 

[HeatsTwice]

I can vouch for the lousy quality of the Vermont Castings. I had the Encore Defiant which required replacment of all the cast iron inards every two years as well as the catalytic converter. So basically, every two years, I had to spend $600 on parts and 4 hours of work to keep the thing functional.

When I talked with dealers, they told me either "I was running it too hot" or I wasn't using the "right" fuel. All I could say is "Evidently, VC did not design the stove correctly".

I sold that POS and bought a Napoleon 1900 last year. It cruzes at 900 degrees, burns anything, and if I have to replace anything on it in the next 4 years, I should be given a metal. I know these two stoves and I know which one I like.

Wow my GF s defiant vermount castings could burn tin cans all night . No cats we learn to burn .First year here in my house vc dutch west . I had install in june . wood scrounger I ll let u know IF it works . Really hopeing so I tried to go low cost 4500.00 all in top to bottom . Trust me If it dont work I'LL tell ya . If my warrenty sucks I'LL tell ya .We all have to earn our money . Do it right . or your stealing JM

It could be that they have fixed the quality issues by now. Mine Encore was a model from 1997 and had a catalytic converter cartrige that would always plug up and, of course the where warpage issues all throughout the inside of the stove.