Old V.C. Vigilant Have Down Draft Technology??

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Placing a bid on a house with an old VC Vigilant in it.
Owner says it was installed in the early 80's.
A date inprint on a cast part says 1977.
Looks to be in nearly "mint" condition.
Also looks like it may utilize "down-draft" technology.
Was this the case on some of the "older" VC's??

Thanks
Rob

 

[webbie]

Yes, all early VC's used a type of down draft (or cross-draft) setup.

Doesn't work too good except when stove is sized right and used pretty heavily.

The date is the design date of the model, not the production date of the particular stove.

So used in cold weather with a good chimney and dry wood, it might be ok....but at other times it might be a smoke and creosote factory.

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Very similar in operation to the "new" Everburn technology??
History re-visited??

Rob

 

[elkimmeg]

You are correct the Villigant had an earlier version of down draft technology And had a real neat griddle opperation of the damper opening when the top griddle was lifted
Herein lies the main concern the damper gasketing never fit tight like the newer separate opperating damper and griddle The cat and ever bunt have tight closing gasketed separate opperation dampers. Air escaping around the damper really hinders secondary Combustion too much air in there cools it That is why Craig said it has to be run hot and also for cresote purposes.

That same air escaping also cools the chimney draft. Then again, dry wood and run correctly, it will produce a good amount of heat, but monitor that chimney

 

[Harley]

Hi, Rob:

I don't think that would be a "buy or not" selling point of the house. Whether or not you decide to keep the stove after you move in certainly depends on how the thing is set up. Yeah - it may be similar in concept to the everburn technology, but I don't think it's really the same thing, or history revisited. As both Web, and Elk pointed out - that one really does need to be set up right, and be burning really hot almost all of the time, otherwise it is a creosote making machine (and I do say that from experience).

I'm not sure what the setup is there in the house you are looking at, but if it's in an existing fireplace, and installed in the 80's, then I'd guess it might be just direct-connected to the flue, or if not, then maybe there's an 8" pipe connected to it all the way up, in which case, you probably would be fine, and heat the house OK. I do believe that was a stove that was pretty "finicky" as far as it's setut and how it was run, since (my own opinion) it was designed to burn either coal or wood, which I think have some very different needs to burn and heat well. Though it can do the job, I'd kind of rate it as "Mediocre" given the age and model. I think I'd rather have a resolute from the same year (a little smaller, but I think it did a better job).

Either way - again - the stove there should not be a "buying" decision - but maybe the existing setup should weigh a little more into it as far as what flexibility you have to replace it if you decide to.

 

[fbelec]

i run a defiant made in 78. it to has the cross or down draft technology. all you guys got it right. it is a little touchy to get it going. when this was installed they have it hooked to a large chimney. largest the manual will allow and it's to short. i think when they installed this in the remodel in 1978 they counted the inside pipe and 90 degree as the length needed like the manual said but it hooks into a 9 foot 8 by 12 outside chimney and all total inside pipe and 90's it comes to 15 to 16 feet. anyway if i do a good job putting back together the pipe after cleaning and it's real cold outside like 5 degrees or colder run the stove up to 550 stack temp then the secondary will light off. and if the house is quiet you can here it. otherwise i run it at 350 to 400 stack temp with out the baffle closed because the draft is not good enough at warmer temps and there is minimal smoke

some day i'll buy that new defiant. until then all i can do is watch the chimney.

 

[Corie]

The stove has the parts necessary to get reburn in that rear chamber, but unfortunately it is made entirely of uninsulated cast iron. The firebox temperatures have to be very high to allow clean burning to occur since there is so much heat loss from the walls of the stove.

Its a great unit for its day but it will be difficult to make it ever perform as clean as one of the new everburn or other types of clean burning units.

 

[fbelec]

those stoves were ahead of it time. i thought about some fire brick but i don't know if it would help???????

 

[Harley]

Hi, Corie:

Good to see you have some internet capability. Sorry - not intending to hijack the thread here, but hope you are settling in there.

very impressive new signature line you now have there - congratulations!

 

[webbie]

those stoves were ahead of it time. i thought about some fire brick but i don't know if it would help???????

Actually, combustion-wise they were not really advanced. They were great for the uninsulated farmhouses in VT and Upper NY state, but just about anywhere else they run into problems because of the required draft, etc.

But, where they were always quite advanced (at least in 1970's terms) was the quality of the castings, the style and the build quality. Once they built the foundry, they had arguably the best stove castings in the world....well, perhaps Jotul, Lange and Morso would argue that point! The designer of the Defiant, Duncan Syme, was an architect, not an engineer.

In the Nothing is New dept, it is quite educational to look closely at the antique stoves at a place like Good Time Stove Co - see the visit on our site:
https://www.hearth.com/articles/83_0_1_0_M7.html

Richard explained some of the combustion systems on these older stoves, and you would be quite impressed at the details. The stove business was, at one time, one of the largest businesses in the USA because every single person needed a stove (and often more than one)....and, in the process, inventors and designers discovered a lot of the secrets to better combustion. Of course, most of this was forgotten from 1910 to 1970, which was why the newer stove companies often started from scratch or else copied a Jotul or other European model (they always made stoves).

Back to the Defiant, as Corie says it is almost impossible to burn cleanly because of the lack of insulation to keep the firebox temps high. The old cutaways and pictures sure made it look like it worked some magic, but I know that down in NJ we certainly could not get that stove to stop producing a lot of creosote! Good thing they came out with smaller models soon afterwards!

 

[fbelec]

thanks for the link craig. that man has talent. those are some of the best looking stove i seen.

i just can't imagine how much those nickel plated stoves would be selling for today.

as far as the old defiant it's tuff getting that stove to burn with as little smoke as i can but as i read here on the hearthnet burn short hot fires and the smoke is not to bad. if that stove had a nice 35 foot chimney it would be awsum.

 

[webbie]

Those antique stoves sell for from $1200 to $3500-$7000+ (fancy cookstoves, converted to electric, etc.)

Even though it looks like a museum, every stove there is for sale!

 

[Sandor]

The womens old Resolute Acclaim needs some gaskets, but that thing is awesome with that down-draft burn.

Maybe too touchy for the casual burner, but once I learned how to burn it, it does great. Only caveat is that the rear air passages must be kept clean for the secondary burn mode to work.

 

[webbie]

Acclaim is relatively easy to use and fine stove. Problems are as you mention - also, early models with cast iron left and right interior panels are likely to self-destruct. All models for 10+ years now have firebrick interiors....and many early models have been converted. Note that with light use in more southern climes, the old model should function fine.