OMG - THIS is why you follow code
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in a bit of a tough spot. We are living in the house at the sametime as the landlord. She bought the house 6 months ago and said the stove passed all inspections. Her handyman came around last night and blamed me for over heating it. Saying things like the paint from the chimney is good up to 600f and that is now peeling so it must have been hotter than that. The long and the short of it is the handyman says it will cost $250 to repair damage. Because we have to live here for at least 1 more month with the landlord /homeowner I offered to pay $125. Mainly to avoid bad blood. However if she reject the $125 I will get a chimney professional out to take a look and prove my point that it doesn't meet code.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Predictable. Take clear pictures with a tape measure or something now showing current install. Sorry to hear it but can't say I'm surprised. A proper install is supposed to be able to withsatnd over-fire and not burn the house down, that's why clearances are what they are.
WoodyIsGoody
Minister of Fire
Two points here:
1) Due to the way it's installed on a tile floor, there's no good way to confirm the stove has not been moved since it passed inspection.
2) If it did pass inspection in it's current location, someone need to lose their job.
Stove paint is commonly rated to 1200F, not 600F. Maybe the handyman quoted the wrong temperature. I've over-fired stovepipe with 1200F paint and it doesn't peel, it burns off and discolors. Maybe they used inadequate paint.
Rather than pay a pro, why not tell the landlord you would like to get the original inspector from the local government back for a follow-up inspection (before it's repaired). I'll guarantee you he doesn't blame you for over-firing it! And you might learn that your landlord moved the stove after it passed inspection because she thought it stuck out "too far". Guess who would be responsible for the entire $250 then?
Just offering to schedule a visit from the inspector might have her offering to pay for repairs. Do this before you offer 1/2 payment.
WoodyIsGoody
Minister of Fire
One more thought:
If they continue to insist it's up to code and the only problem was over-firing, then you need to find another place to live. Unless you don't mind dying young.
If they continue to insist it's up to code and the only problem was over-firing, then you need to find another place to live. Unless you don't mind dying young.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
I would not pay any $125, and fixing that is likely going to cost more than $250. $250 is probably chuck-in-a-truck's quote for repainting the moulding and slapping on a new plastic outlet cover.
If the landlord wanted me to pay one thin dime, I'd explain to them how things are and that I needed the install corrected ASAP. After they told me to take a hike, I would call town code enforcement and tell them I had a fire hazard in my living room and could they please come and provide instructions for eliminating the fire hazard.
Once THAT happens, the landlord is in a bit of a tight spot no matter what their "handyman" says.
If the landlord wanted me to pay one thin dime, I'd explain to them how things are and that I needed the install corrected ASAP. After they told me to take a hike, I would call town code enforcement and tell them I had a fire hazard in my living room and could they please come and provide instructions for eliminating the fire hazard.
Once THAT happens, the landlord is in a bit of a tight spot no matter what their "handyman" says.
Lloyd the redneck
Feeling the Heat
Maybe they moved it after inspection to burn the house down , because of some buyers remorse or some such thing. Blame the renter ect ect. Insurance fraud can be pretty creative !
The handyman sounds like he is out of his league here and blowing smoke, maybe to impress the homeowner. The stove does not show apparent signs of overfiring. The main issue here is the lack of a rear heat shield and the pipe clearance. This is a simple matter of measuring. How far is it from the stove pipe to the nearest combustible surface? (window trim?) How far is it from the stove corner to the the nearest combustible surface? (window sill?)
bfitz3
Feeling the Heat
Have you asked for the original inspection certificate? My gut says the install wasn't inspected. Maybe suggest you'll contact the inspectors office for them to get it? Also, as a renter you have rights. Even if you're month to month, I can't imagine a landlord can throw you out without notice/due process especially if you are up to date on the rent. Is the house even licensed for rentals?
If you haven't done so yet, take LOTS of pictures! C.Y.A.
If the landlord is being an idiot, there are lots of legal and ethical things you can do to be a bigger pain in their butt than it's worth for them to deal with over the next 30 days.
If you haven't done so yet, take LOTS of pictures! C.Y.A.
If the landlord is being an idiot, there are lots of legal and ethical things you can do to be a bigger pain in their butt than it's worth for them to deal with over the next 30 days.
Presumably if this was inspected, there is an inspection record with the relevant authority. My county actually has a search tool on their website to look up basic permit details by address.
Personally, I'd be loathe to pay anything except perhaps if it was a good friend and I wanted to settle the dispute smoothly for the friendship's sake.
Even more basically, generally by law it is the owner's obligation to ensure all appliances in the house, including stoves, meet any necessary codes. There are in many categories additional laws that cover rentals beyond those that cover owner-occupied homes, although in this case I'm not clear if this might be an under-the-table rental arrangement.
blacktail
Minister of Fire
Your local fire department might do stove inspections. You just need someone who knows code to show up with a tape measure.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
Outside of the fire department, the town ought to have at least one guy whose specific job it is to do code inspections- the same guy you would call for new construction, renovations, etc.
Pre-inspection, I'd print off the page of the stove manual that has required clearances on it. Not that any wood burning stove can be installed like that one is.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
A sweep probably will be more experienced in this area than the town's building inspector, but the sweep can only say, 'Hey, this is wrong and dangerous, you should tell the landlord and/or the town.'
The inspector is supposed to send the landlord a notice of violation and schedule a reinspection. If the second inspection discovers violations, they send a notice and schedule a third inspection. If the third inspection has violations, they issue a summons and take the landlord to court.
They're not all perfect, but I'd think even a bad inspector would have to concede that your rental has an issue there.
Some NJ-specific legal info here. It doesn't sound like you are going to be there.long enough to see any kind of resolution anyway, though.
What you want is documentation. Different municipalities have different inspection rules and processes. In some cases the inspection is done by the fire dept.. A certified sweep will write up an inspection report noting deficiencies, but regardless of choice be sure that the inspecting authority will provide a written report after the inspection.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
As far as I'm concerned you are the injured party and have every right to be upset. It's not too different than if you went to use the toilet and the cesspool backed up. Thankfully it wasn't much worse and frankly she should be happy you caught it and the house didn't burn down. In that case the local Fire Marshall would be saying how the fire was caused by an improper install of a wood stove.
I know you're trying to keep the peace but I wouldn't accept any responsibility.
mstoelton
Feeling the Heat
You might want to do a little computer research, my small town has all permits/inspections etc viewable on-line!
I think we should all keep this in mind in giving advice.
Trying to do more than just protect himself from unreasonable charges from the landlord could lead to him looking for other lodging unexpectedly. While there are laws to protect renters from things like unjust evictions, things get more complex when just renting a room in an owner-occupied home, instead of a complete unit. Trying to go beyond protecing himself from liability by getting the homeowner in trouble only to come home one day to find the locks changed in retaliation would suck. It wouldn't matter if he was in the right. The police will not force the homeowner to open the door, and the courts won't fix the problem overnight.
I have no idea if the homeowner is the sort of person who would do that, but I understand the OP wanting to keep the peace.
Jazzberry
Minister of Fire
You guys need to go back and look at the 2nd picture again. Installing it correctly don't work when someone shoves it up against the wall. Common sense should have seen the obvious. It shows a stove up against the wall with the stovepipe way out of plumb. Whats on the sill paper and gasoline? Come on man.
I agree it does not matter at all if it passed inspection or not the fact is that now it is to close. I agree it looks like it moved because the pipe is crooked but it does not look like it is crooked enough that it ever could have met the clearance regardless. As far as what is on the sill yes there was a cardboard box but if the clearances were met that would be no problem at all.
Jazzberry
Minister of Fire
I disagree. I see this completely different. A wood stove is not a kids water pistol. If you are blind to a stove shoved up against a wall before you light it well Darwin comes to mind sorry. Also if someone in my house was careless enough to put flammables that close to a stove they would hear about it bigly.
Squisher
Minister of Fire
That's kind of bogus man. Stoves have all different clearances as well as connecting pipe. Unless you know, you don't know. Not only that many many installations done by 'professionals' still don't meet code and yet they are all signed off on and burning away to beat the band.
I see this thread devolving into the Internet tough guy type of thread. I woulda, you shoulda. Ok ok. I think it was admirable for the OP to share in the first place. I hope they will be bothered to update, despite the abuse from some.
I see this thread devolving into the Internet tough guy type of thread. I woulda, you shoulda. Ok ok. I think it was admirable for the OP to share in the first place. I hope they will be bothered to update, despite the abuse from some.
We have been through this before with another poster. The op is a renter who was told by their landlord the stove was safe to use. To most people that would mean that they could use the stove.
Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
For those of you who think that most people outside of this bubble have a clue about how all of this modern woodburning stuff works, including clearances, dry wood, dampers, clean chimneys etc., etc., you need to get a grip. For god's sake, this whole forum is devoted to people who are interested and informed on the topics, and still screwing stuff up left and right.
Frankly, I think that a landlord who trusts lay renters to operate a woodburning setup that is not completely bulletproof is a fool.
Who here has not accidentally left the air on too long and had an overfire, or had a chimney fire, or any of the countless other things that can go wrong even with close attention and supposed expertise.
Between this thread and the thread about who has the hottest stovetop temps, and everyone who entertained and participated in that idiotic question, I think we can, should, and need to do better.
Frankly, I think that a landlord who trusts lay renters to operate a woodburning setup that is not completely bulletproof is a fool.
Who here has not accidentally left the air on too long and had an overfire, or had a chimney fire, or any of the countless other things that can go wrong even with close attention and supposed expertise.
Between this thread and the thread about who has the hottest stovetop temps, and everyone who entertained and participated in that idiotic question, I think we can, should, and need to do better.
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