Ongoing creosote problem

[Ranger Dave]

It's the deflector plate that's the problem. That is where the "smoke" is originating. It's getting past that, flowing down the outside of the burn pot and pooling in the bottom of the stove. Once in a while a wisp of the smoke comes up from underneath the burn pot and ignites. I dialed back on the auger speed and that helped reduce the amount of smoke, but it's still there. The deflector plate is a replacement. Could it not be sitting right and letting the smoke get past?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

It's the deflector plate that's the problem. That is where the "smoke" is originating. It's getting past that, flowing down the outside of the burn pot and pooling in the bottom of the stove. Once in a while a wisp of the smoke comes up from underneath the burn pot and ignites. I dialed back on the auger speed and that helped reduce the amount of smoke, but it's still there. The deflector plate is a replacement. Could it not be sitting right and letting the smoke get past?

Can you provide pictures of the the deflector plate and the area it is sitting in. The deflector plate itself can't produce smoke that has to be coming from the burning pellets or some crap that has deposited itself behind that plate that just sits there and smolders, that deposited crap is likely your air flow killer which in turn is leading to your build up of 'sote.

If the defector plate is a replacement is it a Harman replacement part or an after market (home brew even) replacement part? If Harman do they have more than one for that variety of stove? Nothing like engineered confusion inducers. Does the thingy have any alignment marks or securing clamps, etc ... etc ... ?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Is this deflector plate you are talking about actually the heat exchanger cover (there are two of them, one on the left and one on the right)?

If so there is(are) a latch(es) for it (them). Page 21 of the manual talks about it (them).

 

[Ranger Dave]

Can you provide pictures of the the deflector plate and the area it is sitting in. The deflector plate itself can't produce smoke that has to be coming from the burning pellets or some crap that has deposited itself behind that plate that just sits there and smolders, that deposited crap is likely your air flow killer which in turn is leading to your build up of 'sote.

I'll try taking a picture tomorrow. I know the plate can't produce smoke. The smoke is coming from the burn chamber, which is right underneath the plate. I've cleaned the area where the plate sits down to smooth metal and it still leaks smoke.

If the defector plate is a replacement is it a Harman replacement part or an after market (home brew even) replacement part? If Harman do they have more than one for that variety of stove? Nothing like engineered confusion inducers. Does the thingy have any alignment marks or securing clamps, etc ... etc ... ?

The plate is a genuine Harman replacement part. At least that's what the installer said. It has two grooves on one side. those fit over the side walls of the burn chamber. There is a little arc on the back where it sits over the auger exit (or whatever you want to call the hole the pellets come out of).

 

[Ranger Dave]

Is this deflector plate you are talking about actually the heat exchanger cover (there are two of them, one on the left and one on the right)?

If so there is(are) a latch(es) for it (them). Page 21 of the manual talks about it (them).

No, it's the plate that's right over the burn area. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Is this deflector plate you are talking about actually the heat exchanger cover (there are two of them, one on the left and one on the right)?

If so there is(are) a latch(es) for it (them). Page 21 of the manual talks about it (them).

No, it's the plate that's right over the burn area. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

That's what the manual calls the flame guide I believe.

Have you cleaned the area under the burn pot?

 

[Ranger Dave]

That's what the manual calls the flame guide I believe.

Have you cleaned the area under the burn pot?

I had it clean enough to eat off of.

I did not have this problem the first year. The only difference between the first year, and the second year when the problem started is the flame guide.

Page 4, figure 4, of the manual has a pretty good drawing. It shows the flame guide on top of the burn pot. Where the flame guide meets the back plate (the one with two bolt holes) is where the smoke is coming from.

 

[Lousyweather]

while I dont think its the flame guide creating the smoke issue, there should be no fire/smoke coming out behind it. sometimes the back wall where the flame guide meets gets dirty and doesnt allow the flame guide to sit right against the back wall, allowing fire and smoke behind it. ALso, given time, the flame guide will etch and deviate to the point there you cant seal it against the back of the burnpot......how old is the guide? They are generally only good for 2-3 years (and not a warrantee item)

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, so here is what I'd do.

Take the flame guide off, really clean and buff where it sits against and the back of the flame guide.

Check the flame guide for flatness, check the burn pot area where it attaches for flatness.

If both the burn pot area and the flame guide are flat refasten the flame guide and make certain the bolts are tight.

If this doesn't do the trick get the dealer out there and show the mess to them and ask what now Clem?

If the stove is totally off warranty a little retort cement (2,000 °F the good stuff) would seal it right up behind there.

What I don't understand is how the smoke is being pulled downwards

 

[Lousyweather]

Ok, so here is what I'd do.

What I don't understand is how the smoke is being pulled downwards

if the smoke is collecting below the burnpot, id guess that theres a restriction at, or very close to, the combustion fan....dont forget, just prior to the smoke leaving the stove, it goes down by the ash pan, then through the combustion impeller, and out of the pipe from there......

 

[Ranger Dave]

while I dont think its the flame guide creating the smoke issue, there should be no fire/smoke coming out behind it.

Which is why there is a problem; that's where the smoke is coming from.

sometimes the back wall where the flame guide meets gets dirty and doesnt allow the flame guide to sit right against the back wall, allowing fire and smoke behind it. ALso, given time, the flame guide will etch and deviate to the point there you cant seal it against the back of the burnpot......how old is the guide? They are generally only good for 2-3 years (and not a warrantee item)

It's only a few years old, but this started the day I put it on. I keep being told that the flame guide cannot be the problem, but I can't believe that anymore since that is where the smoke is coming from.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, so here is what I'd do.

What I don't understand is how the smoke is being pulled downwards

if the smoke is collecting below the burnpot, id guess that theres a restriction at, or very close to, the combustion fan....dont forget, just prior to the smoke leaving the stove, it goes down by the ash pan, then through the combustion impeller, and out of the pipe from there......

His flame guide is under two years old.

What I know about the exhaust path in a Harman is what I can see in the manuals which really isn't much. Perhaps his unit isn't closed up because of a something interfering with closing up all of the clean out doors/baffles

If my stove has smoke going downwards from the burn pot it would need a hole that wasn't there when manufactured.

 

[Ranger Dave]

Ok, so here is what I'd do.

Take the flame guide off, really clean and buff where it sits against and the back of the flame guide.

Check the flame guide for flatness, check the burn pot area where it attaches for flatness.

Already done. Cleaned down to bare metal, but I haven't checked to see if it's flat, it looks flat.

If both the burn pot area and the flame guide are flat refasten the flame guide and make certain the bolts are tight.

The flame guide just sits there. Nothing but gravity holds it on. There are four bolts that hold the burn pot on, but they seem tight.

If this doesn't do the trick get the dealer out there and show the mess to them and ask what now Clem?

If the stove is totally off warranty a little retort cement (2,000 °F the good stuff) would seal it right up behind there.

What I don't understand is how the smoke is being pulled downwards

That's the frustrating part; I've had the dealer out. He just said they all smoke like that. I might try ordering another flame guide and compare the two. I don't think the smoke is being pulled downwards. It just kind of sinks to the bottom of the stove and the creosote in the smoke condenses on the cooler door then drips down over, and is absorbed by, the door gasket. I have to replace that again.

I might have to try that retort cement.

 

[Delta-T]

if the baffles to the heat exchangers are in correctly then really everything should be pulled up into the heat exchangers. maybe you have some material holding those plates up a bit, or the little tabs might not be seated correctly. bottom line, the exhaust should be pulling upward and if anything a bit to the right, but not so much down. very strange, very strange indeed, and not strange in the fascinating and interesting way. is your gasket betwen the burnpot and firewall intact?

 

[Ranger Dave]

if the baffles to the heat exchangers are in correctly then really everything should be pulled up into the heat exchangers. maybe you have some material holding those plates up a bit, or the little tabs might not be seated correctly. bottom line, the exhaust should be pulling upward and if anything a bit to the right, but not so much down. very strange, very strange indeed, and not strange in the fascinating and interesting way. is your gasket betwen the burnpot and firewall intact?

It is strange, and frustrating. The smoke pools at the level of the ash bin and it is definitely coming from underneath the flame guide. I'm going to try tightening the four bolts that hold the burn pot to the back plate. I'll also have a longer, more forceful, talk with the dealer. Something's wrong here.