Oooof! Tight fit, Selkirk telescoping single-wall to ceiling support adaptor (and framing issue.)

[Woody Stover]

We're installing my old Fireview at my BIL's. Metalbestos Ultra Temp class A above what I assume is a Selkirk ceiling support box, although I haven't looked at the box for a label yet. I think the smoke pipe adaptor is probably a 6T-DSCA....dimensions look about right.

http://www.selkirkcorp.com/installation-planners/premium_planner/support/Premium-Offset.pdf
We want to put a Heat-Fab 38-70" telescoping single-wall from the 90 elbow in the flue collar up to the support, but it isn't slipping right on there. There is an 1/8" overlap of pipe wall on the adaptor after the weld. I'm not sure if they left that on there to act as a spring to make a tight fit, or what?
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When I pushed up on the adaptor, it and the class A lifted up out of the support box (if the box and the labeled 206410 6T-FSP are fastened together.) So do I need to have somebody hold the class A down in the attic, lube up the telescope, and jam in on there? Or could I grind down the "spring flap" to loosen the fit?

We've got another issue; It looks like instead of building a proper frame for the support box, the guy just put a screw or two to the joists. Will I be able to frame it in place or will I have to lift the class A out to be able to frame it (there is an insulation shield...will that just slide up the class A, out of the way?)

In the meantime, we're going to hook up the Resolute to the basement fireplace, and it looks like it will bolt right up to the previously installed rigid liner we put in last year. But here's another question; Should we use a 90 elbow (which we have) with the 20' insulated rigid liner just supported by the top plate and clamp? Or should we set it up like mine....tee on the bottom of the flex liner, and the chimney weight supported by the top clamp and a block under the bottom of the tee? Another option; We could use the elbow (since it has the ridges to work with) and rig up some kind of support under it, or wire it up to the masonry....
Some of you guys have done a lot of installing and have pretty much seen it all, so thanks in advance for any input you've got!

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[oldspark]

Somthing sounds goofy, it should not push up on the class a pipe (at least mine does not) thethe class a turns in on the top and the adaptor turns in on the bottom. My heat fab pipe slipped over the adaptor with out a problem so not sure what you have, you may need another section of pipe to do what you want.

 

[Woody Stover]

Somthing sounds goofy, it should not push up on the class a pipe (at least mine does not) thethe class a turns in on the top and the adaptor turns in on the bottom. My heat fab pipe slipped over the adaptor with out a problem so not sure what you have, you may need another section of pipe to do what you want.

Yeah, could be some half-arsed crap, judging from the support box that wasn't framed in. I'm not familiar with all the support box variations, but seems like I read here that some aren't fastened, the class A just sits in the box.

 

[webby3650]

It is very common for the Class A to push up from below, or pull out when you reverse the broom in the pipe.
I screw the pipe to the flashing so it can't move.
I think you will need to trim that adapter back, or at least crimp it. How far does the female end of your pipe go over the adapter?

 

[Woody Stover]

It is very common for the Class A to push up from below, or pull out when you reverse the broom in the pipe.
I screw the pipe to the flashing so it can't move.
I think you will need to trim that adapter back, or at least crimp it. How far does the female end of your pipe go over the adapter?

Thanks for the input, webby. I think the problem was trying to put the smaller tele pipe directly onto the support box adaptor. I found that a standard (?) 6" pipe will go over the adaptor, so I ordered an 18" Heat-Fab to cover the adaptor, then the smaller slip pipe should fit into that....does that sound right? All Selkirk then....
I need this to work. BIL got antsy yesterday and went rogue on me. He went to the shop and got more pipe to match the piece that the hack installer put in originally. It is some oddball oversized stuff, like 6-1/4". But when he got to the flue collar, the oversized elbow didn't fit. He's back on board with the Selkirk program now, Heat-Fab 18" pipe to slip connector to 90 elbow into the Fv collar. Wish me luck.

 

[Woody Stover]

I ordered an 18" Heat-Fab to cover the adaptor, then the smaller slip pipe should fit into that....does that sound right?

Hey, wait a minute. That would be male end up.... Well, I guess there's no way to avoid that. It's not like any creo is going to be running down inside the pipe; We stacked his stuff a couple years ago, mostly White Ash.

 

[Heatsource]

i think that adapter is for systems using a roof support, not the ceiling support box.
i dont think the class a pipe fully seats into the ceiling support with the dsac already installed.....better pop up into the attic and prove me wrong

 

[Woody Stover]

i think that adapter is for systems using a roof support, not the ceiling support box.
i dont think the class a pipe fully seats into the ceiling support with the dsac already installed.....better pop up into the attic and prove me wrong

We plan to take a look up there tomorrow since the pipe won't be here 'til at least Monday. He noted that we could just push the slip connector onto the adaptor as far as the bottom of the first flare and fire the stove up on low. I think I've convinced him to wait. I guess I would be chompin' at the bit too, if I had a different stove to try....

I also had trouble finding the Selkirk install info, but have now stumbled across it so I'll see if there's any enlightenment there....

 

[aansorge]

Selkirk stove pipe needs to have all the screw holes drilled. The literature that you receive does not state this except when attaching the stove pipe to the adapter. Drill all the holes through the 1st layer of stove pipe. It's very sturdy when finished.

The Selkirk tech I talked to answers phone calls all day long about the stove pipe and can't understand why the company does not change the instructions to include the pre drill instructions.

 

[Woody Stover]

Selkirk stove pipe needs to have all the screw holes drilled. The literature that you receive does not state this except when attaching the stove pipe to the adapter. Drill all the holes through the 1st layer of stove pipe. It's very sturdy when finished.

Thanks for the tip, aansorge, will do. I think I've got some pretty sharp cobalt bits around here somewhere. I would definitely rather be doing some of that drilling on the floor. This isn't stainless so maybe it won't be quite as bad....

I ordered the 18" from heartshearth.com and they must drop-ship because their stuff always gets here in a couple days. Hopefully we can have the Fv rockin' by Tuesday because Tuesday night starts a little stretch of low 50s/mid 30s.

I also saw on the Selkirk Heat-Fab site that they have "ovalized flue adapters for Vermont Castings." That might give us more options for the Resolute downstairs. We're using a tee there and have maybe 8-10" from the front of the tee to the flue collar.

 

[Woody Stover]

OK, here's what we found:

As I thought I saw from a distance, the ceiling support indeed was only secured to a joist by one screw. The other side was "supported" by a 1x3 lying on the ceiling drywall under a 2x4 scrap on its edge.


The weight of two 4' sections of class A was too much for even this engineering masterpiece. So in the room below, the trim plate was pushed down from the drywall, leaving a gap which was visible from a good distance away.



I was working with about 18" of room from the ceiling joists to the roof joists so I had to lay down on some boards. Luckily, that is cellulose insulation on top of the fiberglass, so didn't get too itchy. I couldn't make a square box, as the can light was in the way. As you can see, I'm not a carpenter by trade. Had to use a 2x3 in the back to clear some can light strapping.


The guy didn't bring enough pipe to go all the way to the ceiling....oops. "Oh, well, he's not paying me to go back and get more pipe..." Then when this hackmeister got down to the oval flue collar on the Resolute, he had to tear apart the seam on the oversized pipe (check the gap between the pipe and smoke adaptor) to get it to fit in the flue collar. That guy should be taken out and shot, or at least pelted with rotten fruit.






After all that mess was cleaned up, the pipe arrived the next day. It all fit together as planned; 18" to telescoping pipe to elbow.
We let the cement dry overnight and started a low fire to blow off any moisture that may have absorbed into the soapstone in my non-AC house.
Then we fired up a load! Woo Hoo!!
I was under the mistaken impression that Woodstock called for 15' minimum stack, but I then saw 14' in the manual. Thing is drafting great.
For some reason, I thought they had 1800 sq.ft. over there, but it's more like 1300 upstairs so the Fv will kick butt. And we'll have the Resolute downstairs for backup firepower.


Here's my SIL, heating up da tootsies as we brought the house up from 62*. Like a moth to a flame.

 

[Heatsource]

wow! that 'professionally' installed?

dont forget an attic insulation/radiation shield

 

[Woody Stover]

wow! that 'professionally' installed?

dont forget an attic insulation/radiation shield

Yeah. My BIL didn't know anything about chimneys, and wasn't even there for the install. Masterpiece of trash work, right there. He did have an insulation shield up there, so at least something was done right.