Oversized Harmon stove owner.

[Tonyray]

hi, running a Harman P61A.. has the auto igniter...
oversized so that we can force warm air from 1st floor[600sq] to 2nd floor 600sq] by way of ceiling fan at top of steps.. dealer said a P43 would be fine but I opted for larger]

confused about running manual vrs auto....
I know that many run manual to save wear/tear on the ingniter but our house is poorly insulated so the
stove never goes completly out in steady cold weather like now..[Eastern Pa.]. the stove may get down low but always see flames so I don't think running manual for us is going to do much...way past shoulder season here so not igniting off/on thruout the day...so,

1] Is there any other reason to run in manual mode?..
and,
2] will keeping the stove on 24/7 use the same amount of pellets as it would by shutting it off from 11pm-7am keeping in mind that to bring room back up to 70 degrees in morning will offset any pellet saving?

 

[nayslayer]

I'm fairly new, but have had mine a two full seasons. I don't think manual mode during winter will save any wear and tear on ignighter. Purpose of manual mode and room temp is so that it keeps a small fire and will ramp up when more heat is needed without ignighter firing up 10 times a day. I don't think there would be anything gained by shutting stove off at night either, but your mileage may vary.

 

[MtDew]

hi, running a Harman P61A.. has the auto igniter...
oversized so that we can force warm air from 1st floor[600sq] to 2nd floor 600sq] by way of ceiling fan at top of steps.. dealer said a P43 would be fine but I opted for larger]

confused about running manual vrs auto....
I know that many run manual to save wear/tear on the ingniter but our house is poorly insulated so the
stove never goes completly out in steady cold weather like now..[Eastern Pa.]. the stove may get down low but always see flames so I don't think running manual for us is going to do much...way past shoulder season here so not igniting off/on thruout the day...so,

1] Is there any other reason to run in manual mode?..
and,
2] will keeping the stove on 24/7 use the same amount of pellets as it would by shutting it off from 11pm-7am keeping in mind that to bring room back up to 70 degrees in morning will offset any pellet saving?

Are you running your stove in "Room Temp" or "Stove Temp"?

If your house is poorly insulated, then I would leave the stove run in the "Stove Temp" mode with the igniter switch set for "Auto". Set the "Stove Temp" to your desired temp to keep your living areas comfortable. Completely shutting the stove down for that period of time will cause you to possibly loose too much of the heat generated by your stove. It would take time to regenerate and bring the house back to you desired temps. You could always just lower the "StoveTemp" from 11pm-7am.

 

[jackman]

1] Is there any other reason to run in manual mode?..
and,
2] will keeping the stove on 24/7 use the same amount of pellets as it would by shutting it off from 11pm-7am keeping in mind that to bring room back up to 70 degrees in morning will offset any pellet saving?

1] None that I'm aware of. I keep mine in manual mode for the sole reason of keeping the flame going. I'd rather save the wear on the igniter.
2] I've tried it both ways and I have found that it's far more efficient to keep the fire burning round the clock. It uses less pellets and the burn pot has less carbon build up. My servicing dealer has recommended the very same thing.

 

[Tonyray]

Are you running your stove in "Room Temp" or "Stove Temp"?

If your house is poorly insulated, then I would leave the stove run in the "Stove Temp" mode with the igniter switch set for "Auto". Set the "Stove Temp" to your desired temp to keep your living areas comfortable. Completely shutting the stove down for that period of time will cause you to possibly loose too much of the heat generated by your stove. It would take time to regenerate and bring the house back to you desired temps. You could always just lower the "StoveTemp" from 11pm-7am.

running most time in room temp.. actually, trying to ping back/forth to see if room temp uses more fuel.. I would think that if your stove doesn't shut down completely, [due to poor insulation and steady cold, there would not be any difference in stove or room temp assuming your controls are equal. [Feed rate, blower speed, and same temp.. woould that be a correct assumption?

 

[Tonyray]

1] None that I'm aware of. I keep mine in manual mode for the sole reason of keeping the flame going. I'd rather save the wear on the igniter.
2] I've tried it both ways and I have found that it's far more efficient to keep the fire burning round the clock. It uses less pellets and the burn pot has less carbon build up. My servicing dealer has recommended the very same thing.

 

[Tonyray]

1] None that I'm aware of. I keep mine in manual mode for the sole reason of keeping the flame going. I'd rather save the wear on the igniter.
2] I've tried it both ways and I have found that it's far more efficient to keep the fire burning round the clock. It uses less pellets and the burn pot has less carbon build up. My servicing dealer has recommended the very same thing.

wow. is that a fact? would uses less in the long run? off for 7 hrs is a long time.. I would think maybe an hour or longer to bring temp back up in the AM to what it was before shutting down.. maybe I'm wrong..[I would like to be]

 

[TheMightyMoe]

This is always debated. Do what you prefer.

The Harman stove is a convection heater, not a radiant heater.

In manual mode:
The stove will idle pellets with the distribution fan off, sending the majority of the heat out the flue 24/7. It idles to the ESP which is in the flue, so that is the heat leaving your stove, and not entering your home. Meanwhile, if you have a OAK you are constantly pulling that cold air into the stove, just to send it out the flue, to keep your stove warm...

Your igniter will take less abuse.

In room temperature:
The stove will start a fire, increase feed rate until set point is met, then slowly decrease until there is another call for heat OR or there is no call for heat and the stove is shut-off. The distribution fan will only shut off once flue temperatures drop to the point that heat extraction isn't efficient. In room temperature you will ALWAYS pull all the heat out of the pellets as efficient as the stove can.


The typical argument:
The argument you see for manual mode is that the stove is always hot, while in room temperature you have to waste pellets warming up the stove first.

 

[Tonyray]

This is always debated. Do what you prefer.

The Harman stove is a convection heater, not a radiant heater.

In manual mode:
The stove will idle pellets with the distribution fan off, sending the majority of the heat out the flue 24/7. It idles to the ESP which is in the flue, so that is the heat leaving your stove, and not entering your home. Meanwhile, if you have a OAK you are constantly pulling that cold air into the stove, just to send it out the flue, to keep your stove warm...

Your igniter will take less abuse.

In room temperature:
The stove will start a fire, increase feed rate until set point is met, then slowly decrease until there is another call for heat OR or there is no call for heat and the stove is shut-off. The distribution fan will only shut off once flue temperatures drop to the point that heat extraction isn't efficient. In room temperature you will ALWAYS pull all the heat out of the pellets as efficient as the stove can.


The typical argument:
The argument you see for manual mode is that the stove is always hot, while in room temperature you have to waste pellets warming up the stove first.

 

[Tonyray]

very good explanation...
what about running 24/7 as opposed to shutting down say 7-8 hrs.
we sleep upstairs with a space heater with no one downstairs.. seems a waste of fuel all night?

 

[Harman Lover 007]

very good explanation...
what about running 24/7 as opposed to shutting down say 7-8 hrs.
we sleep upstairs with a space heater with no one downstairs.. seems a waste of fuel all night?

Again, that's a personal decision. But in the kind of early season cold we are seeing right now, room temp manual works better for me. It definitely saves on the igniter and you get a more even heat.

 

[MikeNH]

Hi Tonyray, we use Room Temp with a thermostat and run it in manual during the day for reasons already mentioned by other posters...mainly that the small fire throws off some radiant heat and the stove ramps up instantly once the thermostat calls for heat. At night we throw it back to auto. The thermostat drops down to 65 for the night then ramps up at about 530am. Not sure if this is saving the ignitor, and I think we're using more pellets than if we just ran in auto mode, but it's not much.

 

[ironpony]

I run on stove mode and found a happy medium for it to run at constantly keeping the house a consistent temp. My floor plan is extremely open so it works for me.

 

[lbcynya]

Did you read the Harman Sticky at the beginning of the Pellet Forum?

See my sig for a link. Should get you headed in the right direction...

PS - Har-mon's are only sold in Jamaica...Mon...

 

[Enigma869]

With my Accentra insert, I always and only ran it in "Room Temp" mode (not even sure why). When I moved to my new home, I decided to go with a stand alone stove for the extra BTU's. I've had my P68 since October, and have only run it in "Stove Temp" mode. My take away having used both methods is that for me, I feel as though I have far more control over the stove running it in the Stove Temp mode. I simply adjust the dial from 1 (when it's not very cold out or at night when everyone is in bed) up to about 5 (when it's much colder) and feel like it works well. When I have it at 1 overnight, it really doesn't use a whole lot of pellets. I will say that I think you were smart to go with the larger stove. It seems the number one regret people have (myself included, when I bought the Accentra insert) us purchasing a stove that is undersized. I've yet to meet anyone who has complained that their stove provides too much heat. If Harman made something capable of producing more heat than the P68, I would have purchased that!

 

[Tonyray]

With my Accentra insert, I always and only ran it in "Room Temp" mode (not even sure why). When I moved to my new home, I decided to go with a stand alone stove for the extra BTU's. I've had my P68 since October, and have only run it in "Stove Temp" mode. My take away having used both methods is that for me, I feel as though I have far more control over the stove running it in the Stove Temp mode. I simply adjust the dial from 1 (when it's not very cold out or at night when everyone is in bed) up to about 5 (when it's much colder) and feel like it works well. When I have it at 1 overnight, it really doesn't use a whole lot of pellets. I will say that I think you were smart to go with the larger stove. It seems the number one regret people have (myself included, when I bought the Accentra insert) us purchasing a stove that is undersized. I've yet to meet anyone who has complained that their stove provides too much heat. If Harman made something capable of producing more heat than the P68, I would have purchased that!

do you get a lot of Ash buildup or chinkers? on your burn pot using #1...

 

[Hoot23]

Room temp manual works best for me. I've been running it like that since the cold weather showed it's ugly face. Stove temp auto is to hot. Even on 1 or 2. It gets up to 80+ in the living room kitchen area, and 74-75 upstairs. Way to hot! Room temp gives me more control.

 

[Enigma869]

do you get a lot of Ash buildup or chinkers? on your burn pot using #1...

Not really. Honestly, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about ash. I'm amazed by how many conversations I read on these forums about ash and how this pellet has more ash than that pellet. At the end of the day, we're burning wood. Wood creates ash. It's not exactly earth-shattering news (at least, to me). I'm just thankful that the ash I dump out weighs a whole lot less than the bags of pellets that I'm schlepping in to keep my family warm.

I'm not terribly analytical when it comes to my pellet stove. I focus on buying inexpensive pellets, keeping my stove clean, and keeping my family warm. That's about it, from my perspective. I will say that I haven't cleaned my P68 in three weeks. Even though it needs a cleaning, it's having zero difficulty keeping my house very warm (currently 71 on the first floor and 73 on the second floor...and I had to back it down, because it was up to 74 degrees on the second floor) and it's quite cold out right now (around 18 degrees). I currently have the dial set to about 3.5 (out of 7) on Stove Temp.

 

[Tonyray]

Not really. Honestly, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask about ash. I'm amazed by how many conversations I read on these forums about ash and how this pellet has more ash than that pellet. At the end of the day, we're burning wood. Wood creates ash. It's not exactly earth-shattering news (at least, to me). I'm just thankful that the ash I dump out weighs a whole lot less than the bags of pellets that I'm schlepping in to keep my family warm.

I'm not terribly analytical when it comes to my pellet stove. I focus on buying inexpensive pellets, keeping my stove clean, and keeping my family warm. That's about it, from my perspective. I will say that I haven't cleaned my P68 in three weeks. Even though it needs a cleaning, it's having zero difficulty keeping my house very warm (currently 71 on the first floor and 73 on the second floor...and I had to back it down, because it was up to 74 degrees on the second floor) and it's quite cold out right now (around 18 degrees). I currently have the dial set to about 3.5 (out of 7) on Stove Temp.

ok Enigma839... so how much pellet use for your setup in 24hrs?
and,our setup with P61A:
Since there are only wife and I, WE HAVE A CURTAIN over the bottom of steps to 2nd floor.
reason being is that we are never up there during the day.. 3 bedroom/main bathroom.
we have a half bath downstairs..We are late nighters so around 10PM i pull the curtain back, kick on the ceiling fan at top of steps on low to move the trapped warm air in the high arch way to warm the upstairs bedroom we sleep in. others rooms are closed off..now here is the road block being still new to this. I shut the stove off since no one downstairs after midnight. wife and I and a space heater in the bedroom with door shut.... Now I know many here say that better to leave on overnite due to more pellet use to get downstairs back up to temp which is true, but this Harman 61 on full throttle warms the downstairs in very short time 30 minutes maybe, so I still lean towards shutting down for approx 7 hrs overnite..I really don't think keeping on for those 7 hrs will use less than the 30 minutes or so it takes to warm 1st floor again..lot of info from everyone and I can see everyones own personal logic on this..care to jump in some more on this/? I really do weigh eveyones answers regardless if I post reply back..

 

[Enigma869]

ok Enigma839... so how much pellet use for your setup in 24hrs?
and,our setup with P61A:
Since there are only wife and I, WE HAVE A CURTAIN over the bottom of steps to 2nd floor.
reason being is that we are never up there during the day.. 3 bedroom/main bathroom.
we have a half bath downstairs..We are late nighters so around 10PM i pull the curtain back, kick on the ceiling fan at top of steps on low to move the trapped warm air in the high arch way to warm the upstairs bedroom we sleep in. others rooms are closed off..now here is the road block being still new to this. I shut the stove off since no one downstairs after midnight. wife and I and a space heater in the bedroom with door shut.... Now I know many here say that better to leave on overnite due to more pellet use to get downstairs back up to temp which is true, but this Harman 61 on full throttle warms the downstairs in very short time 30 minutes maybe, so I still lean towards shutting down for approx 7 hrs overnite..I really don't think keeping on for those 7 hrs will use less than the 30 minutes or so it takes to warm 1st floor again..lot of info from everyone and I can see everyones own personal logic on this..care to jump in some more on this/? I really do weigh eveyones answers regardless if I post reply back..

I would say my pellet usage is probably about a bag a day when it's not super cold out (around these parts, I'm talking about 30 degrees or above). Probably closer to a bag and a half around now when it's quite cold. Temperatures have only been in the high teens and low twenties during the day, and single digits at night. In terms of moving the heat around...I'm not an expert, but what I've learned living with two pellet stoves in two houses is that sooooo much depends upon the floor plan of your house. Honestly, if I lived in an old house, with a chopped up floor plan, I probably wouldn't even own a pellet stove. I have friends who have pellet stoves in those types of houses, and the room the stove is in is usually ridiculously hot (to the point that you need to open a window to breathe) and the rest of the house is quite cold, because the heat gets trapped in that one room. I live in a newer home (built 2005) with a wide open floor plan. Our stove is in our family room that has 20 foot ceilings. That room is wide open to the second floor staircase, so the heat just circulates throughout the house. The weird phenomenon we've noticed in this house that didn't happen in our last house is that the second floor is almost always two or three degrees warmer than the main floor. In our last house, it was the exact opposite. Even though our other house also had a very open floor plan, our Accentra was much further away from the second floor stairs than the stove is in this house. I would sometime shut the Accentra down, but have come to the conclusion that I'd prefer leaving it on. This is my fourth Winter burning pellets and probably the first that I'm almost never turning the stove off (for anything beyond cleaning it). It will be interesting to see how my pellet usage compares, at the end of the season. I bought 5 ton, and have currently gone through about a ton and a half. I'm hoping I have enough to get through the entire season, but I may not. Luckily for me, the local Home Depot is less than a mile from my house, so if I have to go grab another 20 bags of pellets at the end of the season, it's easy enough to do.

 

[Tonyray]

I would say my pellet usage is probably about a bag a day when it's not super cold out (around these parts, I'm talking about 30 degrees or above). Probably closer to a bag and a half around now when it's quite cold. Temperatures have only been in the high teens and low twenties during the day, and single digits at night. In terms of moving the heat around...I'm not an expert, but what I've learned living with two pellet stoves in two houses is that sooooo much depends upon the floor plan of your house. Honestly, if I lived in an old house, with a chopped up floor plan, I probably wouldn't even own a pellet stove. I have friends who have pellet stoves in those types of houses, and the room the stove is in is usually ridiculously hot (to the point that you need to open a window to breathe) and the rest of the house is quite cold, because the heat gets trapped in that one room. I live in a newer home (built 2005) with a wide open floor plan. Our stove is in our family room that has 20 foot ceilings. That room is wide open to the second floor staircase, so the heat just circulates throughout the house. The weird phenomenon we've noticed in this house that didn't happen in our last house is that the second floor is almost always two or three degrees warmer than the main floor. In our last house, it was the exact opposite. Even though our other house also had a very open floor plan, our Accentra was much further away from the second floor stairs than the stove is in this house. I would sometime shut the Accentra down, but have come to the conclusion that I'd prefer leaving it on. This is my fourth Winter burning pellets and probably the first that I'm almost never turning the stove off (for anything beyond cleaning it). It will be interesting to see how my pellet usage compares, at the end of the season. I bought 5 ton, and have currently gone through about a ton and a half. I'm hoping I have enough to get through the entire season, but I may not. Luckily for me, the local Home Depot is less than a mile from my house, so if I have to go grab another 20 bags of pellets at the end of the season, it's easy enough to do.

thanks for the info..... we have one of those semi-open floor plans with the steps to upstairs maybe 20 feet in line from stove. Going thru a bag or little more per 18hr day.. pains of an un-insulated house with too many windows even though they are double panes. still playing around with room vrs stove temps...had the P61A installed Nov 13th...a month now.. I'll get it down to a certain usage and realize it ain't gonna burn any less on 30 degrees or below days/nights...

 

[boo boo]

I still lean towards shutting down for approx 7 hrs overnite..I really don't think keeping on for those 7 hrs will use less than the 30 minutes or so it takes to warm 1st floor again

You answered your own question.

If your looking to save money I don't know what your kilowatt per hour is in PA or the size of your space heater is but the space heater may be costing you more than the pellets you are saving shutting it down over night.

 

[Tonyray]

You answered your own question.

If your looking to save money I don't know what your kilowatt per hour is in PA or the size of your space heater is but the space heater may be costing you more than the pellets you are saving shutting it down over night.

good thought.. that may be worth checking into..7 hrs space heater vrs 7 hrs pellets at approx $3 a bag. although space heater is plugged into a electric thermostat that shuts it down when it hits 68 and back on at 66...maybe have to sit and watch it one boring caffinated night.lol

 

[bill-e]

Old house, little insulation. I use a bag of pellets between 8 PM and 8 am. If I shut down the stove overnight my oil furnace would run but I'd save a bag of pellets. There would be no advantage to doing that in my situation.

I would think that with 7 hours off you'd save some pellets overall but you would off settle savings with your furnace running.

 

[Tonyray]

Old house, little insulation. I use a bag of pellets between 8 PM and 8 am. If I shut down the stove overnight my oil furnace would run but I'd save a bag of pellets. There would be no advantage to doing that in my situation.

I would think that with 7 hours off you'd save some pellets overall but you would off settle savings with your furnace running.

that;s true but, since no one is downstairs for 7 hrs, we set thermostat down to 55...prob comes on couple times a nite maybe more.