OWB installation help - please !!!!

[stephen44]

Morning,

I've been reading the topics here with great interest - the knowledge I need to tap into - is definitely here - best forum on OWB on the net !!

I'm just about to buy my first OWB. It will be the Taylor 750 - I chose this mainly due to the dealers I have in my area - and how well this dealer will work with me.

Let me tell you about my house - it is a single story, 3000 sq ft house in southern VA. It has two seperate AC/Heat Pump forced air systems - one for each end of the house. The house is 7 years old and is insulated to the hilt.

My wife is disabled and suffers from a circulatory disease - which means we need to keep the temps up around 80 and she needs an 80G very hot bath every day.

Consequently - my utility bill last winter was $400/month - and we are facing a 30% increase this year ! - so I've got to do something.

I have access to free unlimited supply of hardwood and already have 3 cords stacked and will have 10 by the end of this month - it is already pretty well seasoned.

- But I need some installation points cleared up/answered for me.

The recommended Taylor installation for the DHW - is to break into the cold feed to the 40G HW tank and run this up to the Heat Exchanger coil in the boiler (150 feet away) and then bring the heated water back to the HW tank input.

My first question is - will this system supply the quantity of HW we require - seems to me that to get very hot water - i almost have to draw off 40G - to get to the freshly heated hot water ?? - obviously I could disconnect the HW tank completely - but this gives me no backup - other systems I have seen circulate the HW back to the boiler keeping the water in the tank at the set temperature ?




second question:

What internal thermostats do you all use - they are telling me to use a line voltage thermostat - I really wanted to use a digital programmable one - so I can run slightly cooler temps at night - and get away from the big swings associated with line voltage thermostats?

thirdly - and thank you for your patience if you read this far !! - I'm being advised to run separate circuits to each furnace. Which means extra pipes,pumps etc. I really wanted to do them in series but still keep two thermostats - but they are saying it is hard for two thermostats to control one pump and two blowers - anyone got any ideas on this ? - I want to be able to control each end of the house independently - due to the usage.

I would really be interested in your thoughts on my installation options.

Thank You - Stephen

 

[WoodNotOil]

Stephen

I think most OWB's use a heat exchanger between the tube that runs outside and all of the inside heating loads. Therefore, I would assume there would be a heat exchanger for the DHW inside the house and so long as hotwater is coming from the boiler, it would circ the DHW and always keep it hot.

I would think either thermostat type would work as they are just telling it when to come on and off.

You could have one pump and two zone valves for the forced air loops, but that might actually cost more than two pumps.

I am sure others will have answers as well.

Did you look at gasifiers before deciding on OWB? Free wood or not, those things burn a LOT of wood. My father has one and he is outside several hours everyday in the winter cutting splitting and loading. I keep my gasifier going with only a couple hours of time on the weekends. All that wood and work really adds up over the life of the boiler and some states are banning them. Gasifiers can be put in outside with a correctly made enclosure or outbuilding.

 

[stephen44]

Well that is kinda my point - the heat exchanger for the DHW is in the boiler - the way the water is heated is cold water pressure pushed the water through the boiler and through the HE in the boiler and then back to the HW tank - as HW is used in the house. There is no pump on this circuit.

I looked at costs - and the OWB works for me - All my wood is in logs that will fit in the furnace - so I will not be spending 3 hours per day - just stoke it up hopefully twice a day only. I do not need to split my wood I don't believe as burning whole logs is better with seasoned hardwoods.

- but I stand to be corrected.

 

[itsme again]

Myself and most that I know of that use OWB's use a flat plate heat exchanger for the DHW. I don't even use my hot water tank in the winter. I shut the breaker off. My heat exchanger is hooked up AFTER the water leaves the hot water tank. It then goes through the heat exchanger, up to the house. I don't use a regulator for the temps because we have no children to worry about getting burnt by the hot water. I'll tell you what, it comes out of the tap within a few degrees of what the furnace is set at.

I think you will better off using seperate lines for each furnace, but that is just my opinion. If you have a problem with one, the other can keep the house warm. Don't be surprised if you have to adjust your pump size after the first really cold snap. Sometimes you will need a bigger pump to circulate the water a bit faster. This happened to me. Once I put on a next size bigger pump, there was no problems at all.

I don't use a programmable thermostate because end up having to use the one's that cost about $400. So I can't offer any advice on that.

You sound like you will have your wood all stacked and split before it is cold. Of course you will, why would you want to do it in the winter??? I put wood in my OWB 2 times a day when it is cold. Takes only a few minutes and I am done. Everyone likes to say that they are going to be banned, but most of that comes from people trying to get you to switch to gasifiers. Use your stove responsibly and you will be fine.

Good luck and remember, no matter what you are using to burn wood, it is a learning process as far as amounts and re-fueling times. It won't take long and you will be just fine.

 

[stephen44]

Myself and most that I know of that use OWB's use a flat plate heat exchanger for the DHW. I don't even use my hot water tank in the winter. I shut the breaker off. My heat exchanger is hooked up AFTER the water leaves the hot water tank. It then goes through the heat exchanger, up to the house. I don't use a regulator for the temps because we have no children to worry about getting burnt by the hot water. I'll tell you what, it comes out of the tap within a few degrees of what the furnace is set at.

I think you will better off using seperate lines for each furnace, but that is just my opinion. If you have a problem with one, the other can keep the house warm. Don't be surprised if you have to adjust your pump size after the first really cold snap. Sometimes you will need a bigger pump to circulate the water a bit faster. This happened to me. Once I put on a next size bigger pump, there was no problems at all.

I don't use a programmable thermostate because end up having to use the one's that cost about $400. So I can't offer any advice on that.

You sound like you will have your wood all stacked and split before it is cold. Of course you will, why would you want to do it in the winter??? I put wood in my OWB 2 times a day when it is cold. Takes only a few minutes and I am done. Everyone likes to say that they are going to be banned, but most of that comes from people trying to get you to switch to gasifiers. Use your stove responsibly and you will be fine.

Good luck and remember, no matter what you are using to burn wood, it is a learning process as far as amounts and re-fueling times. It won't take long and you will be just fine.

thanks - i agree with you

one question - does your HW circuit have a pump on it's own circuit - what controls that ? and is it at the boiler end or the water tank end ?

 

[WoodNotOil]

Just to clarify, I don't sell gasifiers. I just know they are far superior to owb from experience. There are at least 3 states working on banning them and most of the makers of them are probably going to come out with gasifiers soon anyway. My father will be replacing his OWB with a gasifier once he has gotten more use out of it. He is in his 60s now and won't be able to cut large amounts of wood forever.

 

[itsme again]

The way my system is hooked up is liek this.
Hot water comes into the house and goes first to the DHW flat plate exchanger. It then goes to ny forced air furnace that is next to it and goes through the heat exchanger in it. It then goes back to the boiler. In my set-up, my boiler is higher than my home, so my pump is in my cellar, It is before the flat plate heat exchanger. Your set-up my be different depending on your property.


As far as gasifiers being superior, well that is dependant on what you think that means.
I get a longer burn time than gasifiers and although I am sure I get more smoke out the chimney, my stove doesn't smoke out the neighborhood. My neighbors woodstoves in their houses do that.
I don't have to cut my firewood into little pieces tu burn it. Usually either leave it in logs or split it once.
As far as using a lot of wood, I burn around 9 cords a year for a 1900 sq foot house that is 135 years old and not that well insulated. Having the thermostate set between 74 - 78. Wife likes it warm !!

I'm didn't mean to say that the banning of OWB anly comes from those that use gasifiers. What I should have said is if everyone stopped bringing up the subject of banning stoves and use what they have responsibly, most of these issues will go away on their own.. I would like to see them try banning any kind of stove as long as the heating oil nears $5.00 a gallon. At that rate, I might as well move south.

 

[Reggie Dunlap]

Itsmeagain,

Not knowing where you live it's hard to say whether 9 cords to heat a 1900 sq. ft. house is a lot or not. But it seems like a lot of wood. Here in VT some guys with OWB's are burning 15 cord or more. I'm heating a 4500 sq. ft. house on 5 or so cords with a Tarm, but my house is new and well insulated. I'd rather deal with 5 cord of split hardwood in my garage than 10-15 cord of wet hemlock logs in my yard, but that's just me.

You are right in that responsible burning would eliminate some of the problems with OWB's. If they all burned dry hardwood the smoke wouldn't be an issue, but most OWB owners buy them because they can burn wet hemlock, pine, etc..

You say that everyone likes to say that OWB's are going to be banned, well it's already happened in VT. They are not totally banned, but as of a certain date they will need to conform to strict emissions criteria.

 

[dairyfarmer]

Stephen the Taylor uses well Pressure to push the water out to the furnace and back for your domestic hot water. They break the line going into your hot water heater and take cold water to the furnace and return it to the input of your hot water heater. The nice thing about that is you don't have to run a pump in the summer. and if the furnace is not up to temp your hot water heater will function as normal. Another nice thing about keeping the hot water heater in the loop is as a buffer tank so you don't get scalding hot water right away. I would say that you would have no problem pulling 140 degree hot water constantly of your furnace if it was up to temp.

 

[SkinnyG-WoodMan]

This is an awesome way to heat your house, if you have plenty of wood it works like a charm. One year ago We moved to Tennessee from Florida. We froze to death during our first winter. We have a heat pump and we could not heat the house for anything. So the decision was either an outdoor wood furnace or a wood stove. It was a simple choice the wood furnace won. No smoke in the house and the fire is outside. So I found a local dealer for Taylor wood furnace. We had it installed in Sept this year. I learned more than I ever wanted to learn about this subject. I thought that I would share this with my fellow wood burning brothers and sisters. The wood furnace has only one function, Heat water. The Taylor furnace heats our hot water and heats our heating water that feeds our Hot air furnace. The coil was installed by a heating guy, he built a box that was installed above our blower in our heating cooling ducts. The installation of the wood furnace was a whole day event. We had to put in a concrete pad for the unit. Also had to dig an 18 inch trench for the 4 pex water lines. The 4 lines are 2 for the heating, one for cold water and the other for hot water to the water heater. The 4 lines are wrapped in foam and wedged into a 4 inch PVC sewer pipe. We made all of the connections from the water heater and coil to the wood furnace. We buried all of the piping. Then we had to hook up the power to the wood furnace. There is a pump and a fan on the furnace. We grabbed the power from the furnace and piggy backed the thermostat to use the fan only. The connections worked like a charm

Here are my final thoughts. We are being squeezed by countries that hate us and supply us Oil. We have the resources to take care of ourselves. It is hard work to collect wood. But anything to be self reliant is great for our country and ourselves. The outdoor wood furnace is expensive. But my house is almost too hot this fall and winter.

 

[Duetech]

In the city south of me they outlawed all NEW OWB's but grandfathered in the ones in existence. I imagine it would mean a legal mess to do it any other way. Given the mind set of some though I would not be surprised to see some go for a complete ban on OWB's. Fuel oil doesn't always burn real clean and the unburned fuel expelled from a poorly adjusted oil furnace probably adds more to the respiratory problems some people have than wood smoke. If oil exhaust were given in the same amounts as the smoke I've seen from some OWB's the neighbors probably wouldn't complain because they would be dead already. It seems to me that the people who have OWB's need to link together and learn what right's they have and what they need to do to protect themselves. It also should go without saying,but won't, people with OWB,s should take into consideration the effect their actions are going to have on those around them BEFORE they install their OWB and then seek to protect their neighbors from those actions. The concept and action are summed up in one word "civilization". The ounce of prevention is most always better applied that the pound of cure. You should like your OWB but your neighbors should not be forced to hate it and thank goodness the hostile foreign oil countries are not profiting from it. Wow...that almost sounds patriotic, kind of like learning to protect your freedom stuff and a loaf of bread for a barrel of oil....

 

[muncybob]

Our rural locality has taken their first step in the OWB area...they require a 20' chimney!! Several towns nearby have totally banned them. It's a shame that we sometimes create laws and paint everybody with the same brush since there are some OWB's that do not emit a lot of garbage into the air and there are some responsible owners not creating a lot of smoke. I guess it's easier to ban or severly restrict something than it is to police the area and make sure things are done properly.