P68, smaller stove or a less expensive brand?...I need advice

[wildwildwest]

I am a long-time woodstove user but new to pellet stoves. I became handicap a few years ago and my first winter in the wild wild west last year reached -29*F . Yes, NEGATIVE 29*. Dear husband split wood twice a day and stacked it on the porch, but wow stoking the stoves while he was gone at work took quite a toll on me. I am hoping that scooping pellets if the hopper runs out while he is gone is easier than loading logs into the stove. Am I on the right track?

Last winter we paid $320 electricity per month (space heaters) and burned 8 cords of wood. This home is 2000 sq feet, ranch. It is an older home, 1952, with 2 additions, we are in the midst of remodeling and correcting many of the drafts and adding insulation. The other combustible stove across the house will remain intact as long as we can get it working properly again lol. I am contemplating putting off some of our remodel plans to get the P68 instead of a less expensive brand.

If a big pellet stove is burned too low will damage it? I need maximum heat for the subzero days but I also will be running it low during cool summer days. Another thread I read here warned about buying a pellet stove that is too small... So I want to buy the correct stove considering the investment.

Do I need a 4" pipe since I am at 7500 feet? (I read that somewhere too). I found a link for an exhaust and intake kit to replace our 6" woodstove pipe, is that correct?

Emptying the ashtray. Is it heavy? I am hoping this is something I can do instead of another chore for dear husband, he works too hard as it is.

When is the best time of the year to buy pellets?

Thank you for input on this.

KD

 

[alternativeheat]

I am a long-time woodstove user but new to pellet stoves. I became handicap a few years ago and my first winter in the wild wild west last year reached -29*F . Yes, NEGATIVE 29*. Dear husband split wood twice a day and stacked it on the porch, but wow stoking the stoves while he was gone at work took quite a toll on me. I am hoping that scooping pellets if the hopper runs out while he is gone is easier than loading logs into the stove. Am I on the right track?

Last winter we paid $320 electricity per month (space heaters) and burned 8 cords of wood. This home is 2000 sq feet, ranch. It is an older home, 1952, with 2 additions, we are in the midst of remodeling and correcting many of the drafts and adding insulation. The other combustible stove across the house will remain intact as long as we can get it working properly again lol. I am contemplating putting off some of our remodel plans to get the P68 instead of a less expensive brand.

If a big pellet stove is burned too low will damage it? I need maximum heat for the subzero days but I also will be running it low during cool summer days. Another thread I read here warned about buying a pellet stove that is too small... So I want to buy the correct stove considering the investment.

Do I need a 4" pipe since I am at 7500 feet? (I read that somewhere too). I found a link for an exhaust and intake kit to replace our 6" woodstove pipe, is that correct?

Emptying the ashtray. Is it heavy? I am hoping this is something I can do instead of another chore for dear husband, he works too hard as it is.

When is the best time of the year to buy pellets?

Thank you for input on this.

KD

If your husband is away more than a day at a time a furnace might be better.

Either a P61a or P68 with the added hopper extension should make it at least 24 hours assuming the house is tightened up. With lousy pellets the ash pan could need dumping once a week. Decent pellets every two weeks. And top pellets longer . On average figure a ton of pellets burned to a full ash pan with decent pellets. So in that cold climate allow for interval variation.

Have you considered the install of a pellet furnace? Two gains here, it would heat the house more evenly. Additionally, it can be set up for bulk pellet use with an auto feed system. Basically other than checking on it daily it may not need any attention for a week at a time. Some of the furnace users here could explain that better than me though. So consider some of that info then the rest of your questions to follow.

Is the 2000 sq ft house including those out rooms that were added ?

 

[wildwildwest]

If your husband is away more than a day at a time a furnace might be better.

Either a P61a or P68 with the added hopper extension should make it at least 24 hours assuming the house is tightened up. With lousy pellets the ash pan could need dumping once a week. Decent pellets every two weeks. And top pellets longer . On average figure a ton of pellets burned to a full ash pan with decent pellets. So in that cold climate allow for interval variation.

Have you considered the install of a pellet furnace? Two gains here, it would heat the house more evenly. Additionally, it can be set up for bulk pellet use with an auto feed system. Basically other than checking on it daily it may not need any attention for a week at a time. Some of the furnace users here could explain that better than me though. So consider some of that info then the rest of your questions to follow.

Is the 2000 sq ft house including those out rooms that were added ?

Thank you AlternativeHeat! Yes the 2000 sq/ft includes all the outrooms and additions. I was under the assumption pellet furnaces required installing air ducts for forced air or running pipes for hot water baseboards. Is there another way a furnace could work for me?

 

[alternativeheat]

I am a long-time woodstove user but new to pellet stoves. I became handicap a few years ago and my first winter in the wild wild west last year reached -29*F . Yes, NEGATIVE 29*. Dear husband split wood twice a day and stacked it on the porch, but wow stoking the stoves while he was gone at work took quite a toll on me. I am hoping that scooping pellets if the hopper runs out while he is gone is easier than loading logs into the stove. Am I on the right track?

Last winter we paid $320 electricity per month (space heaters) and burned 8 cords of wood. This home is 2000 sq feet, ranch. It is an older home, 1952, with 2 additions, we are in the midst of remodeling and correcting many of the drafts and adding insulation. The other combustible stove across the house will remain intact as long as we can get it working properly again lol. I am contemplating putting off some of our remodel plans to get the P68 instead of a less expensive brand.

If a big pellet stove is burned too low will damage it? I need maximum heat for the subzero days but I also will be running it low during cool summer days. Another thread I read here warned about buying a pellet stove that is too small... So I want to buy the correct stove considering the investment.

Do I need a 4" pipe since I am at 7500 feet? (I read that somewhere too). I found a link for an exhaust and intake kit to replace our 6" woodstove pipe, is that correct?

Emptying the ashtray. Is it heavy? I am hoping this is something I can do instead of another chore for dear husband, he works too hard as it is.

When is the best time of the year to buy pellets?

Thank you for input on this.

KD

Just wanted to add, I burn in a P61a, use it in the shoulder seasons of spring and fall in room temp auto. This automatically turns the stove on when heat is required to meet your desired room temp. When that demand is met the stove shuts down. It will cycle like that as often as is required so it's not really put into a full time low burn situation, the flame will ramp up and down as needed by the stoves programing. As weather warms the cycles are pretty short. In cleaning the stack in early summer there was a very small amount of creosote in the base cap of the clean out compared with the mid winter cleaning that I did. This will fit your need fine in that regard, it's not a gunky mess at all with a Harman.

Other people here are running pellet stoves in 6" wood stove vents FWIW. Maybe they will chime in. My P61a is set up into 4" vent and goes up about 21 ft. through the brick and mortar chimney of my fireplace.

 

[alternativeheat]

Thank you AlternativeHeat! Yes the 2000 sq/ft includes all the outrooms and additions. I was under the assumption pellet furnaces required installing air ducts for forced air or running pipes for hot water baseboards. Is there another way a furnace could work for me?

Furnaces require ducting etc. yes. But again, those using them could better answer your questions about them.

 

[Bioburner]

Theres a nice looking StCroix Auburn in Casper, WY via ebay that's not getting any bids. I think the reserve is around $800 and comes with some fuel too. If I was closer I would have bid. I calculated the fuel bill to get and was not worth the time. Just got enough corn today to heat the entire year for $460.

 

[St_Earl]

not sure on the harmans, but many stoves have hopper extensions available.
a nice big hopper with a good sized bin or pail full of pellets near the stove could work well for you.
if you are like many of us, you'll be topping it off just to see it full.
just get a scoop and container that work well for your ability.
you may well not even need a hopper extension and i'm not sure what extra height it would add to the reach you'd need when filling it up.
maybe better to go with a good amount available for scooping.

again, not fully familiar with the ash pan on the harman, but if it is too much to lift fully out, you could also use a scoop there. just get a metal bucket for the ash.

if there are embers or un-burnt pellets mixed in, it can smoke. pouring water on the hot parts stops this.
i often do a quick ash drawer dump when it's really cold and set it out on my enclosed porch in the METAL bucket.
but i have gotten things pretty smokey when i didn't know things were still smoldering.

i believe that with the harman being a bottom feeder, there is a much smaller chance of getting unburnt pellets in the ash pan.
someone else will have to verify that though.

but i also imagine it won't be too hard for your husband to get the ash drawer as it doesn't have to be done all that often. like definitely not everyday.
some of that depends on the ash % of the pellet you use. but i'm fairly sure it was never more than every two weeks for harman users. probably more if i recall correctly.
again, that is subject to verification.

 

[Bioburner]

My Harman has a bin extender(gets about three days burning) and the ash bin is not a problem to remove and empty. We have a extra ash bin so can do a hot swap an just cover the container with something to keep from leaving a trail of ash. Can go almost a ton of pellets before emptying depending on brand of pellets(corn does not compact as much so the need for extra bin). About a month burning time in the heart of heating season. About the same time you need to dump the ash the stove will need a proper cleaning which is short and easy.

 

[SwineFlue]

Other people here are running pellet stoves in 6" wood stove vents FWIW. Maybe they will chime in.

The Harman XXV and most QuadraFire stoves (from the same company) offer a top-vent adapter kit that will connect to an existing vertical stovepipe, directly replacing a wood stove. The pellet stove does sit just "in front of" the vent, not directly underneath it, so it might require a bit more fore/aft space.

 

[alternativeheat]

The Harman XXV and most QuadraFire stoves (from the same company) offer a top-vent adapter kit that will connect to an existing vertical stovepipe, directly replacing a wood stove. The pellet stove does sit just "in front of" the vent, not directly underneath it, so it might require a bit more fore/aft space.

P series are bottom vented horizontally. So you come out about a foot behind the stove and put in a T ( some folks use an elbow) and run your first section of pipe up behind the stove and attach into existing wood stove pipe that way. Or otherwise follow any of the diagrams on install supplied with the stove or downloaded online. Before I bought our P61A, I already read the manual in PDF. You can get it right at Harman's web site and download that to your computer. I would consider adapting into a six inch wood stove pipe made of double wall stainless as being per instruction but just larger diameter. Many here have done that already. I would be careful of condensation issues with larger pipe than that but some have gone up to 8" even. The one consideration is strong draft and the stove may need it's draft screw adjusted slightly, any qualified tech can handle that or any decent home grown do it yourselfer with a draft meter ! It's a non issue as long as the existing pipe passes an inspection.

 

[wildwildwest]

Fellow Pellet Burners,

Thank you for the invaluable input!

Husband would like to get a liner for our existing woodstove pipe, I am thinking replacing it with new 4" pipe kit to roof w OAK. My quandry is the OAK (fresh air) will be from an enclosed porch. Are there any concerns there? Its more of a wind protection area than a porch. Though its freezing in the winter and leaks like a sieve, it does have walls, roof, and windows that protects from sand and ice pellets blowing at 90 mph. Its the place that my husband currently leaves split logs for me. Appx 8' x 20'.

If I moved the location of the stove, closed up old hole in roof, the other location for easy access to outside venting would be in a corner quite close to sliding glass doors. I worry about the extreme heat from the stove and extreme cold from the outside weather and how the glass will fare.

thanks!

 

[wildwildwest]

P series are bottom vented horizontally. So you come out about a foot behind the stove and put in a T ( some folks use an elbow) and run your first section of pipe up behind the stove and attach into existing wood stove pipe that way. Or otherwise follow any of the diagrams on install supplied with the stove or downloaded online. Before I bought our P61A, I already read the manual in PDF. You can get it right at Harman's web site and download that to your computer. I would consider adapting into a six inch wood stove pipe made of double wall stainless as being per instruction but just larger diameter. Many here have done that already. I would be careful of condensation issues with larger pipe than that but some have gone up to 8" even. The one consideration is strong draft and the stove may need it's draft screw adjusted slightly, any qualified tech can handle that or any decent home grown do it yourselfer with a draft meter ! It's a non issue as long as the existing pipe passes an inspection.

Ha! I have downloaded to install/specs pdf too! Thanks

 

[wildwildwest]

Theres a nice looking StCroix Auburn in Casper, WY via ebay that's not getting any bids. I think the reserve is around $800 and comes with some fuel too. If I was closer I would have bid. I calculated the fuel bill to get and was not worth the time. Just got enough corn today to heat the entire year for $460.

Thank you for the great tip! I am not up for the drive to Casper either lol.

 

[wildwildwest]

not sure on the harmans, but many stoves have hopper extensions available.
a nice big hopper with a good sized bin or pail full of pellets near the stove could work well for you.
if you are like many of us, you'll be topping it off just to see it full.
just get a scoop and container that work well for your ability.
you may well not even need a hopper extension and i'm not sure what extra height it would add to the reach you'd need when filling it up.
maybe better to go with a good amount available for scooping.

again, not fully familiar with the ash pan on the harman, but if it is too much to lift fully out, you could also use a scoop there. just get a metal bucket for the ash.

if there are embers or un-burnt pellets mixed in, it can smoke. pouring water on the hot parts stops this.
i often do a quick ash drawer dump when it's really cold and set it out on my enclosed porch in the METAL bucket.
but i have gotten things pretty smokey when i didn't know things were still smoldering.

i believe that with the harman being a bottom feeder, there is a much smaller chance of getting unburnt pellets in the ash pan.
someone else will have to verify that though.

but i also imagine it won't be too hard for your husband to get the ash drawer as it doesn't have to be done all that often. like definitely not everyday.
some of that depends on the ash % of the pellet you use. but i'm fairly sure it was never more than every two weeks for harman users. probably more if i recall correctly.
again, that is subject to verification.

I could not have described solutions to my needs better!

Yes, I have had my eye on steel pails at Harbor Freight lately, except now that I have moved I would have to pay shipping. A scoop, a pail, and many resting sessions I think this my answer.

Thank you

 

[alternativeheat]

Fellow Pellet Burners,

Thank you for the invaluable input!

Husband would like to get a liner for our existing woodstove pipe, I am thinking replacing it with new 4" pipe kit to roof w OAK. My quandry is the OAK (fresh air) will be from an enclosed porch. Are there any concerns there? Its more of a wind protection area than a porch. Though its freezing in the winter and leaks like a sieve, it does have walls, roof, and windows that protects from sand and ice pellets blowing at 90 mph. Its the place that my husband currently leaves split logs for me. Appx 8' x 20'.

If I moved the location of the stove, closed up old hole in roof, the other location for easy access to outside venting would be in a corner quite close to sliding glass doors. I worry about the extreme heat from the stove and extreme cold from the outside weather and how the glass will fare.

thanks!

The install should take place where it makes the most sense for distributing heat to the rest of the house. A P series stove is maybe 30- 40% radiant heat and the rest is convection by blower. THe blower set on high can deliver heat in some places previously not getting much heat by a radiant only supply but it's not a miracle worker either. Some line of site flow helps too. A lot of people run the blower on low, it's quieter that way but it doesn't heat the outreaches as well.

I don't see a problem with OAK drawing from the porch as long as the porch is loose enough to not form too much negative pressure, IE, the stove will get enough air. It sounds loose enough out there but still it may require a vent opening where the oak can draw from , depending on how tight it actually is. A grilled 3 inch hole will do the job actually..

 

[wildwildwest]

We have decided to buy a Harman despite the huge savings of going with a Napoleon. I have come across several posts that boast the advantages of cleaning Harmans and their ability to burn lower than premium pellets. Is this true? I hope I am making the right decision as the difference is price is over $2K. I live in a remote area so the selection of pellets is limited.

thanks!

 

[wildwildwest]

The install should take place where it makes the most sense for distributing heat to the rest of the house. A P series stove is maybe 30- 40% radiant heat and the rest is convection by blower. THe blower set on high can deliver heat in some places previously not getting much heat by a radiant only supply but it's not a miracle worker either. Some line of site flow helps too. A lot of people run the blower on low, it's quieter that way but it doesn't heat the outreaches as well.

I don't see a problem with OAK drawing from the porch as long as the porch is loose enough to not form too much negative pressure, IE, the stove will get enough air. It sounds loose enough out there but still it may require a vent opening where the oak can draw from , depending on how tight it actually is. A grilled 3 inch hole will do the job actually..

Great news to hear hour opinion! I will put in the woodstove's place for the radient heat and oak on to the porch. Yes, the oak will get plenty of frigid air from my unsealed porch. thank you.

 

[alternativeheat]

Great news to hear hour opinion! I will put in the woodstove's place for the radient heat and oak on to the porch. Yes, the oak will get plenty of frigid air from my unsealed porch. thank you.

We have decided to buy a Harman despite the huge savings of going with a Napoleon. I have come across several posts that boast the advantages of cleaning Harmans and their ability to burn lower than premium pellets. Is this true? I hope I am making the right decision as the difference is price is over $2K. I live in a remote area so the selection of pellets is limited.

thanks!

I looked at Napoleon Stoves and St Croix. Nepoleons looked well built and so did St Croix. Two different dealers sold many brand stoves and both said buy a P series Harman or an Accentra 52i insert and don't look back. But yes, the others work too, they require more critical cleanings, or I should say doing so is more critical. You don't want to say, stretch for the weekend ? But do a cleaning during the week for instance, Just sayin. So we paid the difference. But all pellets stoves need cleanings at a routine task. No question about it. Half these stoves you see for sale at seasons end is just that. The people never cleaned them and they wonder why it failed to operate. So they sell out. P series are the easiest of the easy to clean though.

Anyway, I don't think anyone elses brand is rated at 61000 btu never mind 68000 unless you go coal or with a furnace. Coal with stoker feed similar to pellet stoves will get up around 105000 btu, same for furnaces and boilers be that pellet or otherwise. Your wood stove may actually burn hotter too, but it has a huge curve to it's heating cycle and probably radiant heat only.. Pellet stoves can put out constant heat as can coal stoker stoves. Coal is hotter though, no question.

Something else you want to look at is the pellet bags. They weigh 40 lb. What is you plan for handling them ? What I do is morning and evening I top off the stove if it needs it or not. My wife is home during the day but she has never had to fill the hopper. I do keep a tin container full of pellets. If I should get delayed for what ever reason she can fill from that . But that has never happened yet, I top it off ( the stove) every 12 hours.. She will scrape the burn pot during the day ( just scrape the ash off into the ash bin when we have ashy pellets) which livens up the flame. I won't buy pellets with a rating of more than 1% ash. Some of which are quite good others crap. .5 is better yet, the best being .2 or .2.5 ( expensive around here). If you have access to Douglas Fir pellets in your area for any kind of reasonable price buy them, generally they are the best of the best. But many others work fine too. These are just hotter and less maintenance. The way the Harman system works all pellets will heat your house, you will use more of crap pellets to get the job done and less of really good clean burning hot pellets for the same job. My compromise pellets from Douglas Fir are Energex all Hard wood Premiums ( almost as much heat, clean burning blue based flame but a lot of ash by comparison). Spruce Pointe are pretty good, La Crete are quite good. But your brands probably will vary in your area, you may not even see these brands there. I bought one brand of pellets I had to return ( Natures Own). The stove burned them but it gobbled them alive and they made a mess inside the stove with dark ugly ash everywhere. Multi burn pot scrapings per day. Junk pellets took them back got my money back, went and bought Energex Soft woods cause that's all the supplier of Energex had at the time.

 

[oliveone]

alternativeheat Anyway, I don't think anyone elses brand is rated at 61000 btu never mind 68000 unless you go coal or with a furnace.

The Enviro MAXX Pellet Freestanding Stove, BTU's 70000, Efficiency 86%

Harman P series is a great stove enjoy!