Pacifc Energy - looking for some information

[mikeathens]

I have had Vermont Castings and Hearthstone stoves so far. Until I started looking at this forum, I thought those were the only two quality stove manufacturers. I'm looking to replace my Hearthstone Heritage because it's just a tad too small for the house. Will probably happen after things warm up this spring or summer.

swestall turned me on to the PE T6, which appears to be about the biggest stove on the market. If my heritage is too small, what do you all think results will be with the PE T6? Currently, I struggle to keep the room the stove's in at 65 when it 10 outside. And that includes cramming it full of wood every 3 hours, which is starting to really suck. I usually end up with a 6" layer of coals after doing this a few times.

What can you tell me about this company? I couldn't find too many ratings on this stove, and a search didn't yield too much info, either. How about the stove? What I am hoping for is at least 6 hours between loads, and the ability to really fire it up if necessary. I have found with the Heritage that I have to keep the surface between 400 and 550 to keep the room comfortable. I am assuming I will have to do the same with a new stove.

Will the T6 maintain surface temps above 400 F for 6 hours (or more), if fully loaded? Does anyone know of other options out there that are comparable in size and output (or bigger) than the T6? The Hearthstone Equinox would be sweet, but I wouldn't be able to afford it.

I'm open to options - the wife has approved, IF we can sell the Heritage at a decent price.

 

[BrotherBart]

You won't find much in the ratings department for the T6. It only went on sale a couple of months or so ago. It is essentially a PE Summit firebox wrapped in cast iron so performance is going to be pretty much the same as a Summit.

And the Summits are nice little stoves. :coolgrin:

 

[swestall]

Yeah Mike, the reason I turned you on to PE is because they are great stoves. You need to find a dealer and go see the Summit or T5/6. They have a nice baffle system and it has a lifetime warrantee.
Also, you should see if you can find and Equinox as it is in the same heating category. To to Tom's web site. http://chimneysweeponline.com/ and read up on these stoves as he carries both. He has a great comparison chart there.
At some point everyone looking to heat 24/7 has the house cool off a bit and then warm up. With these bigger stoves you should have less variation but you will still get variation on the long burns as you can't have it cranking and get the long long burn at the same time.
Again, PM me if you want to chat about this stuff.
I personally went back and forth between the Mansfield, Equinox, T5/6 and Quad stoves. I finally got the Mansfield because of the Soapstone factor and it seemed OK at 80K/BTU. But, if they had an Equinox in stock, I might have taken it anyway. (I couldn't use the side door because of my setup anyway)

 

[mikeathens]

There's a dealer just up the road from me - they carry Jotul, PE, Hearthstone, and just about everything EXCEPT Vermont Castings, which I found somewhat bizarre, though I don't really care all that much because of my recent negative experience with their "newest, latest, greatest" non-catalytic technology. I might have to swing by tonight on my way home.

I'm willing to bet my wife will be happy when I'm done with this so she won't have to hear me complaining about what an idiot I am for not getting the right stove the first time...

so anyone with "burn time" data? All I want to be able to do is sleep for 6+ hours straight and wake up to a house at 64 + degrees. Is that too much to ask?

 

[karl]

Normally I would say 6 hours is no problem but doesn't the stove you have now have a 2.3 cubic foot firebox? My summit has a 3.0 cubic foot box and I can get 6 hours of good heat out of it. I'm thinking you should get alot more out of what you have. Maybe your house it too big or not insulated well enough.

You're going to have a stove with a 30% bigger firebox but it sounds like you want twice the burn time you're getting now.

 

[begreen]

The Heritage is at the edge for 1800 sq ft. in a cold climate. Seems like a Mansfield or the PE T6 is better sized. However, I agree that this is also seems like a heat loss issue. Mike, did you ever get your floors sealed up and insulated? If I remember right, you reported them as being really cold.

 

[mikeathens]

Normally I would say 6 hours is no problem but doesn't the stove you have now have a 2.3 cubic foot firebox? My summit has a 3.0 cubic foot box and I can get 6 hours of good heat out of it. I'm thinking you should get alot more out of what you have. Maybe your house it too big or not insulated well enough.

You're going to have a stove with a 30% bigger firebox but it sounds like you want twice the burn time you're getting now.

This is frustrating for me because I am having such issues. Yes, the Heritage has 2.3 CF, the mansfield has 3.2 CF, the equinox 4.0. Maybe I'm just expecting way too much to think that I can get a stove that will keep my house between 65 and 75 for 6-8 hours. I thought that T6 had a bigger firebox?? Hmmmmmm...

Maybe I should just accept defeat and live with 6 hours burn times with the Heritage resulting in a 54 degree house. I guess I thought I should be able to bring the 16 X 32 room its in up to at least 72 or so. I was thinkning that the fact I could fire cast iron so much hotter might make a difference. Keeping the surface of the Heritage at 400 - 550 requires loading every 3 hours when it's in the teens.

 

[mikeathens]

mike, did you ever get your floors sealed up and insulated? If I remember right, you reported them as being really cold.

I used doube foil insluation (R-15) on part of the floor, and the rest (what I could get to) I worked on last night with R19 fiberglass. I still have about 15% of the floor area that I can't access due to the joists being like 5 inches from the dirt.

 

[begreen]

Ugh, that sounds like what my house was like a couple years ago. Can some rigid 2" foam be wedged in those spaces?

How are the windows? Are there a lot of them? Are they all storm windowed or thermopaned?

 

[mikeathens]

Ugh, that sounds like what my house was like a couple years ago. Can some rigid 2" foam be wedged in those spaces?

How are the windows? Are there a lot of them? Are they all storm windowed or thermopaned?

Partial basement with massive sandstone blocks around it - beyond the blocks, there is dirt up to their level - and to make it even more enjoyable, the joists run parallel to the block wall. in other words, there's no wedging anything!

Windows are new double pane. Four 3' X 2' in the kitchen area. Two sliding doors (I hate them). One steel door with big ass glass insert. I know, part of the problem. i hope to get rid of ALL of them when I do my SIP addition.

The front of the house also has several windows, though not as big.

If the doors/windows were the only source of heat loss, I'm sure things would be different. Yes, they are contributing, but I suspect it's not the biggest part of the problem. The 16 X 32 section has a flat roof, with R19 in the ceiling. Top it off with top plates that were not sealed up (I can feel cold air around the ceiling/wall intersection). Unfortunately, I don't know WHAT I could possibly do with that particualr problem without completely tearing off the roof and starting over (which I plan to do in a few years).

EDIT: Ohhhhhh, and even more enjoyable is the fact that each of the floor joists has its own custom spacing.

 

[begreen]

Welcome to my world My floor joists vary from 22 to 26" on center! Well at least each one is solid, true-dimension old growth fir. 36 ft each one. Ain't old houses grand?

 

[mikeathens]

Mine vary from 10" OC to 30+" OC. Must have been some good moonshine involved in the construction of this place.

So, what do you all think? Should I give up the dream of 6 hour burns and a resulting house temp of 65 after that time? No one ever really said if they see surface temps of 400 or more on the PE T6/Summit after 6 hours? The heritage is down to 200 after that time period.

 

[begreen]

I've been looking at the Summit/T6 too. Our issues and goals are similar. I've been speaking to Tom Oyen about this. They are currently testing the T6 in-house. From what I've heard so far, it seems like our needs of stove temp > 450-550 for over 6 hrs. would be met.

If you go back to some early posts by MountainStoveGuy you will get some data for a Mansfield in cold temps. That stove also should work if you want to stay with the soapstone style. I'm also looking at the Quad Isle Royale because of close corner install clearances + 3cu ft capacity.

 

[mikeathens]

It doesn't get as cold there, does it? I was at -4 last night, manage to keep it around 62. Fell asleep at 1, got up at 6, and the heat pump (set at 60) had just kicked on. I'm actally just looking for a monster of a stove. I'd love the equinox, but $3200 is just a tad steep for me. I'm thinknig I might be able to recover $1800 for the HEritage, and then put it toward a (fill in the blank) without too much more out of pocket.

It's the blank that I can't figure out...

 

[begreen]

No, you get much colder than we do. For us anything below 30 is cold. The fact that the Heritage is doing that well at -4 is admirable. When you say heat pump, do you mean the electric coils in the heat pump? I didn't think they would function as a heat pump at -4. Or do you have a geothermal unit?

Our house has a lot of glass, too much, but it is nice to have the light and views, especially in the winter. And our house also has a lot of built-in heat losses due to multiple remodels. The one done in 1984 was a lulu. They didn't give a damn about efficiency and built in several leaks, cold air entry points and filled downstairs with recessed cans. So although I have made a lot of progress, there's still work to be done. Too bad it's so messy to replace the recessed fixtures or I'd have done it long ago. They have no place in an old farmhouse.

The Jotul covers the house's needs very well down to about 35 degrees. Below that I have to push the stove harder. Getting longer than 3-4 hrs of meaningful heat is a challenge then. By the time it gets to 20-25 degrees outside, the stove is unable to cope unless the house is already up to temperature. So, I am reluctantly considering yet another upgrade. My ideal stove would be about 2.5 cu ft, but that is a narrow field, especially in cast iron stoves that have tight clearances. A 2 cu ft stove should cover 80+% of our heating and is tempting, it will fit better in our location. But I don't want to do this again, thus am also looking at the 3 cu ft stoves.

Question, if you go for a monster soapstone like the Equinox, how well will it heat and behave in the shoulder seasons of fall and spring? Seems like the Mansfield might be a better all around fit.

 

[Rich L]

Hi Mike,I just got my hands on the Mansfield back in November.It's in my cellar surrounded by concrete walls and it kicks all night and sends heat up the cellar steps to the kitchen once it gets going.You should be getting longer than 3 hour burn times.If you don't have a damper in the pipe,I'd put one in.You can' t shut these stoves down far enough for me and if your draft is strong your wood will be eatin up in no time.Since I put my damper in I'm getting over night burns and my cellar produces a negative draft until I open the cellar windows and reverse the draft.Once reversed that draft sounds like a freight train so I had to install a pipe damper before my wood was goobled up.Now I'm very pleased with the results.A damper may improve the performance to the point of you not needing a new stove.If it doesn't work get the MANSFIELD of course with the installed pipe damper.My damper installation provided me with more heat and longer burn times.Hope this note may provide some assistance.

 

[Hogwildz]

I can only speak for my Summit insert. But I have no problem having it at 400 or slightly higher after an 8 or 9 hr burn.
I would thing a T6 would be the same, maybe better since it free standing. As far as heat output that is.
I would think a Mansfield would also do a great job. How bout an Englander 30? If you really want a big box, theres that Blaze King at 4.2cf or something like that.
You have several choices, just have to decide budget & style you want. Nice looking home btw.

 

[Gunner]

Mike,

I am heating 1800sqft with alot of glass, and a perpetual wind. Last few days it has been -10 to -15C overnight. It's never colder than 68 in the house when I get up in the morning, stovetop temps are 400 or so. I am burning hard maple and ash. You will have no problem getting your 8hrs of beauty sleep, and waking up to a warm house in the coldest of weather.

The big difference is not only going to be the burn time, but the operating temps. If my stove "topped" out at 550deg I would be cold too...no matter how long it burned for. With this weather I reload at 400 and peak out at 750.

 

[mikeathens]

You should be getting longer than 3 hour burn times.If you don't have a damper in the pipe,I'd put one in.

I think our definitions of "burn time" might be different. For most, it probably means the point where the stove top reaches 250 F. For me, it's time to reload at 400 F, and even that's pushing it. If my house was more insulated, I'd probably be fine with lower stove-top temps. So for me, the "burn time" is a matter of 3-4 hours.

As far as my heat pump, it's electric, and I monitor it's performace like a hawk when its on. It is a high efficiency model, 15 SEER, I believe. At -4, I would guess on its own, coils would be lit up 24/7. But that hasn't been the case. Apparently, with the heritage going, the furnace is only having to compensate for a few degrees (vs. 60), so I think it is able to continue working as a heat pump. It's pretty damn cold air coming out. But, it's only on auxillary heat during the defrost mode.

I have been kicking around the equinox thought a bit more. I think I want this to be the last time I buy a stove. At 4 CF firebox, if thatmonster doesn;t work, I will admit that I am screwed and live with it. During warmer weather (like >32), I am sure that my "burn times" will bewell into the 14+ hour range. The heritage can runn pretty clean with small loads; I am assuming the same with the equinox? Possibly many smller loads through the day. I would rather roast than freeze.

Still thinking about the T6. I called the local PE dealer today asking about possibly trading the heritage in - "we probably wouldn't be able to give you more than $700" Bahhahahahhaaaaaahahahahahahahah!! I asked him how much crack he was smoking. He had the balls to tell me they wouldn't be able to sell it for more than $1000 (oops, did he acidentally say $1000? Must have meant $2000). Oh, well. I think craigs list will be seeing an ad some time in the near future...

I can only speak for my Summit insert. But I have no problem having it at 400 or slightly higher after an 8 or 9 hr burn.
I would thing a T6 would be the same, maybe better since it free standing. As far as heat output that is.
I would think a Mansfield would also do a great job. How bout an Englander 30? If you really want a big box, theres that Blaze King at 4.2cf or something like that.
You have several choices, just have to decide budget & style you want. Nice looking home btw.

Don't know much about blaze kings, but I just looked at the web page. MAN!! that thing would be awesome!! If only it wasn't so ugly. My wife would never go for it. Too bad that T6 isn't that big.

 

[Gunner]

He is some info for you Mike.

Today I had to help my brother move...did I mention moving sucks, and owning a pickup truck sucks too.

Now to the info, I was up at 6:30am loaded the stove, stovetop was reading 400, house temp 69, outside -13C. 5 huge sugar maple splits stove up to 700 damper down all the way.

Returned home at 8:00pm (that 13 1/2 hrs later) stove top 325.

 

[Gunner]

what the coals looked like at 8:00pm

 

[Gunner]

At 10 pm I got tired of waiting for the coals to burn down so I removed some ash and raked everything forward and cleaned the glass. This is how much coals I had for a relight after a grand total of 15 1/2 hours.




same pic one with flash one without.

 

[begreen]

Gunner, that's impressive. Could you post a typical stovetop temperature slope from start up, to burn, to refill? You know, like: +:30 min top = 400, + 60m top = 700, + 240 min. stove top 600, etc.

Also, what is the warmest outside where you are still burning? How do you run the stove in the spring and fall shoulder seasons?

 

[Gunner]

Gunner, that's impressive. Could you post a typical stovetop temperature slope from start up, to burn, to refill? You know, like: +:30 min top = 400, + 60m top = 700, + 240 min. stove top 600, etc.

Also, what is the warmest outside where you are still burning? How do you run the stove in the spring and fall shoulder seasons?

I have been wanting to graph a full burn cycle for awhile now, good excuse to stay home all day and record stovetop temps every half hour...yes, I am crazy :lol:

For me to burn 24/7 (no matches) it has to be 32F or colder outside. That's burning clean and not getting the house overly hot or opening windows.

In the early fall it's 1 quick hot fire a day then 2 quick hot per day, then the famous 3 split "cave burns" for when is hovering just below freezing.

It requires having plenty of kindling on hand, and maybe alittle more work lighting 2 fires a day from scratch in the shoulder seasons, but it's worth it to me to have "enough stove" in the dead of winter. I'd rather start a fresh morning and evening fire in the spring, than get up in the middle of the night in the winter.

 

[Rich L]

Hi Mike ,for me I consider burn time is once after my fire is blazing about a third of the fire box full,I stuff it with wood,let it start to flame and shut the dampers down for that long burn (overnight).I crash about 10 or 11 pm get up at 6am and my mansfield is throw off good heat from the coals that are still fired up.Even though the cellar walls absorb a lot of the heat it still fells like a sonar room.Once I've insulated the studs I've erected forget it,it'll be like Miami even at 0 degrees F or below.Mike is your draft strong?If so had you put in a pipe damper?Then again your stove may be too small for your home.The 3-4 hours of heat or burn time for a soapstone just doesn't make sense.Those kinds of numbers are more suited for the early model stoves,which always had you feeding them.I also own a Woodstock Classic soapstone stone and that provided overnight heat.I needed more heat so I got the Mansfield.I plan on putting the woodstock on the first floor and replace my Pacific Energy Summit their largest stove.The summit is not behaving as the manufaturer said it would.Without the fan it would be of no use to me.So I'm moving this imposture before we have a winter power outage and putting in a stove that puts out without the assistance of a fan.The Woodstock Classic or Fireview would provide much more heat than your present stove and they are cheaper than the Mansfield and Woodstock has a good finance program.I paid a year ago about $59.95 per month or was it $69.95 for many this is very manageable.Once your approved you have to finance the shipping from their factory to you.They have no dealers.Hang in there.