Pacific energy stove seems to get clogged

[2wheels]

Hi , first post here.
I have burnt wood for many years, but always with older stoves (25 years).
Just bought a house in Nov 2014 and it has a Pacific energy stove with a baffle in the top, which is new to me.

The stove is possible 5 to 10 years old.
The problem is getting it started. It was ok for the first couple months then it filled the house with smoke. We cleaned the chimney (it didn't need it). Then we took the baffle out of the stove and cleaned that. Then all was OK.

Now 2 months later, same lighting problem, I took the baffle out and it looks clean this time. But I notice the thin panel on top of the baffle, just above the insulation is warped quite a bit. Could this be my problem.

Right now it feels like this complex stove is more problem then it's worth.

 

[mstoelton]

It sounds like your wood may not be dry enough. This is a common issue with EPA certified stoves. The wood has to be below 20% moisture content or they don't want to burn correctly.

Also there are air controls on the stove that you may not be adjusting properly. You can get a manual from PE that will give you some instructions of you don't have one already.

PE has a great reputation for making a great heater on this site. Many happy users.

 

[2wheels]

thanks mstoelton
I have the manual,it say open the intake air to maximum.
The wood we use to start the fire is maple split small, over 5 years old. It is kept in a open tent outside since the fall, to keep the snow off it. I don't know its moisture though. Our temperature outside has been below -15 C for most of Jan and all of Feb.

I should add some details . The stove is in the basement with a pipe about 3 feet up and 3 feet to the wall. Through the basement wall, then maybe 30 feet straight up and a few feet above the peak of the roof.

When first lighting the stove from cold there is a strong down draft of really cold air. I expect this is normal.
I put a couple sheets of crumpled news paper above the kindling (to get the air in the chimney warmed) but when I am having my problem even this paper will not burn. Very odd I think.

 

[Grisu]

When first lighting the stove from cold there is a strong down draft of really cold air. I expect this is normal.

Sounds like a serious downdraft which is due to your flue and home and would happen with any stove. What kind of chimney do you have after the first 6 ft? Class A or masonry (with or without liner)?

You have the right idea in trying to prime the flue with some burning newspaper but it seems the downdraft is so strong it is not sufficient. I would try opening a window or door close to the stove which will help draft. A propane torch or hairdryer may also work better as some newspaper. The easiest solution would be to keep the stove running so the flue stays warm. I suspect the stove drafts just fine once the flue is warm?

 

[2wheels]

Thanks Grisu
Yes the stove drafts fine once it is operating. I have tried opening the window (about 5 feet from the stove) but this doesn't help. Except to help clear the smoke.
The chimney outside is all stainless / insulated. I expect install properly as the installer was a local person with a good reputation.

So you don't think the problem is the stoves baffle? It could be outside wind direction / temperature, etc.
I will try the propane torch.

 

[DougA]

My guess is that if you put a new cap on the chimney that reduces down draft it should help. I've never used one but have heard from others that it helps.

 

[Grisu]

If the baffle is properly seated on the air channel in the back with the safety pin inserted, I don't think it is the problem. Some warping of its top plate is normal and should not impede airflow. You can post a picture of it if you want. Nevertheless, the stove would not draft ok once hot if the baffle would be the problem.

What may help a bit is cleaning the boost air-channel in the front. That is supposed to give you some additional air into the bottom of the fire to aid startup. Behind the door opening at the bottom is a little metal extension. When you feel with your fingers on the inside you will notice some holes pointing into the firebox. That metal piece can be lifted up and then you can clean the ashes out.

 

[Offset]

Mine had a similar issue because I had failed to properly install the baffle in the first place. Take the baffle out and clean it, I would think just by tapping it would help get any material out. Check that the gasket between the stove at the very back and the air tube is in good shape and properly sealed. I would also make sure that the tube itself is not partially blocked. When cleaning the chimney with the baffle out make sure you block that tube off with a rag or something to stop any material going down inside the tube itself.

Wish I had a solid answer for you but my stove was easier to light and much more efficient once the baffle was correctly installed and pinned. If you suspect that the baffle is bad they are replaceable and I guess part of the normal maintenance of these stoves.

 

[2wheels]

Good advice. I think cleaning that air channel out is going to be a summer maintenance item.
Here is a picture of the top of the baffle.

I was considering putting 2 screws through to flatten it out, is that a bad idea?

 

[begreen]

Tell us more about the chimney this stove is connected to. Is there a stainless liner in it or does the stove vent directly into a tile lined flue pipe? If the latter, what are the inside dimensions of the clay tile flue pipe?

The stove is trying to overcome negative pressure in the basement. Draft is marginal. The warp is at the flue outlet end. That could restrict draft a bit. You can put a small stainless sheet metal screw or SS pop rivet to hold it down and flatten it. I would do the same on the other side.

Also, check for other issues external to the stove that may be compounding the problem. Are there any other competing appliances in the basement? This would be a gas/oil furnace, gas/oil hw heater, clothes dryer, or bath room fan.

It's unlikely this issue is related to a secondary air problem. But just in case, to clean out the secondary supply tube, take a shop vac and tape on a 24" length of 3/4" hose onto the end. That should be able to snake down into the rectangular baffle secondary air tube to vacuum it out.

 

[2wheels]

There is a oil furnace and bathroom fan but I made sure they were off when I was having this problem.

Screwing both corners down is what I had in mind, as you say.

 

[begreen]

The chimney looks fine. It's a long pipe to warm up and keep warm when it is bitter cold out. A kitchen fan or a big fire in a first floor fireplace could also contribute to downdraft. Even a window cracked open upstairs could increase negative pressure in the basement. A couple small changes that will help keep the chimney a little warmer are using double-wall connector pipe and softening the 90 deg turn by using a pair of 45's and an offset connector. The less 90 deg turns in the flue gas path the better. Also, make sure the connections are good and tight to the stove and that the tee cap is on correctly and sealing well.

 

[Grisu]

I think cleaning that air channel out is going to be a summer maintenance item.

No need to wait until summer. Takes 2 minutes. The stove has to be cold, though. Shovel out ashes first, then feel behind the door for the holes, and pull the channel up by gripping into one (or using a screwdriver or similar). With a brush remove the ashes that may have fallen in there and reinsert channel.

 

[begreen]

www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-annual-clean-your-boost-baffle-thread.139170/

 

[2wheels]

No need to wait until summer. Takes 2 minutes. The stove has to be cold, though. Shovel out ashes first, then feel behind the door for the holes, and pull the channel up by gripping into one (or using a screwdriver or similar). With a brush remove the ashes that may have fallen in there and reinsert channel.

I did find these holes as you instructed. I will try and open that up. I will also get a little hose for my shop vac clean as much as I can.
Thanks all, for the advice.

 

[begreen]

The boost manifold cover just lifts out. Be sure to put it back correctly so that the holes face the bottom of the fire.

 

[Grisu]

Just lift it straight up and you are welcome. Btw. Leaving a layer of ash (maybe 1/2") in the bottom of the firebox usually helps with the burn.

 

[Heatsource]

Sounds like a serious downdraft which is due to your flue and home and would happen with any stove. What kind of chimney do you have after the first 6 ft? Class A or masonry (with or without liner)?

You have the right idea in trying to prime the flue with some burning newspaper but it seems the downdraft is so strong it is not sufficient. I would try opening a window or door close to the stove which will help draft. A propane torch or hairdryer may also work better as some newspaper. The easiest solution would be to keep the stove running so the flue stays warm. I suspect the stove drafts just fine once the flue is warm?

I agree

OP, make sure any mechanical fans upstairs are off, furnace kitchen bathroom. Make sure all doors and windows upstairs are closed.
then open a door or window dow stairs before lighting the fire, is there a noticeable difference?

(broken link removed to http://www.thechimneysweep.ca/2stackeffect.html)

 

[2wheels]

I agree

OP, make sure any mechanical fans upstairs are off, furnace kitchen bathroom. Make sure all doors and windows upstairs are closed.
then open a door or window dow stairs before lighting the fire, is there a noticeable difference?

(broken link removed to http://www.thechimneysweep.ca/2stackeffect.html)

This is an older house that has a ladder/ door leading up to the attic. The air seal is terrible, (this is on my list of things to fix)(we just got the house in Nov)
Also there are not any doors downstairs to upstairs so the stairway is open.
Do you think these 2 things are making for a very strong down draft in the chimney?
When I open to stove door to light it and it is quite cold outside the wind coming down the chimney is enough to blow my hair.

 

[Heatsource]

This is an older house that has a ladder/ door leading up to the attic. The air seal is terrible, (this is on my list of things to fix)(we just got the house in Nov)
Also there are not any doors downstairs to upstairs so the stairway is open.
Do you think these 2 things are making for a very strong down draft in the chimney?
When I open to stove door to light it and it is quite cold outside the wind coming down the chimney is enough to blow my hair.

yes, it is possible
anything leaking air above where the flue goes out the wall can compete with the chimney for draft. it doesn't matter how tall the chimney is, draft is initiated where it penetrates the building envelope

problems like this are not un-common with downstairs tee systems, and i avoid doing them whenever possible for this reason

 

[begreen]

For sure at least put some gasket tape around the perimeter of the attic door so that there is a seal there for the door to close on. Or seal it with some blue or green 2" painter's tape.

 

[mstoelton]

From the pics it looks like your flue is bare un-insulated pipe. This will result in excess creosote and the potential for a significant downdraft especially in cold weather.

 

[blueguy]

From the pics it looks like your flue is bare un-insulated pipe. This will result in excess creosote and the potential for a significant downdraft especially in cold weather.

Looks like Excel chimney to me

 

[2wheels]

From the pics it looks like your flue is bare un-insulated pipe. This will result in excess creosote and the potential for a significant downdraft especially in cold weather.

Hi, definitely an insulated chimney.

 

[2wheels]

I just want to conclude this thread.
I put 2 screws int the baffle to flatten it out.
Also taped over the door into the attic (this made a noticeable difference in the cold air coming out the stove when the stove door is open)
I cleaned out the front booster vents.

All to no avail. I filled the house with smoke again while lighting the fire. Again it burn fine once it is going.
I will try the propane torch next time.

I have concluded the problem is me and my lack of lighting skills, and not the stove.

I learned here and want to say thanks to all.