Pacific Energy Vista - backdraft

[radiolatte]

Greetings, hoping someone might have some suggestions. I live in Canada, and in Nov 2010 installed a PE Vista. Have been happy with it, however, in the last 10 days we just can't get a fire going. We have a 6" flu liner, stainless steel, uninsulated. And do not have the ash tray installed Nor do we have the external air intake feeding the fire (not an option for canadians).

We use seasoned hardwood (stored well). The glass on the front of our unit is now cloudy/black. We have a 6" flu liner, stainless steel, uninsulated.

Iam ordering a 6" brush and poles early this week, but on inspections so far, im not convinced its a clogged chimney or anything. Im wondering if there are any things I could be doing to test the until. As it stands to get even a crappy, low burning fire to go, we have to leave the door open to get enough oxygen in to the burn chamber. Even then, it doesn't really do much, but fills the house with smoke.

Thanks in advance

 

[HotCoals]

Get some newspaer and roll it up ..light one end and put it in next to the outlet in the stove and report back.

 

[HotCoals]

Queston,is this a insert and if so are you sure the pipe is hooked to the stove behind the shield?

 

[begreen]

It could be that with outside temps increasing there is no longer adequate draft. To get the fact straight, is this an insert? It sounds like one. How tall is the liner? Is this in an interior or exterior chimney?

 

[radiolatte]

yes its an insert, 2 screws we're installed to hold the pipe in-place, can't see why they'd have released it

The liner is approx 26' high, and lines an old masonary stove chimney.

unit has worked really well until 10 days ago

ill do the newspaper thing now

thanks

 

[radiolatte]

initially all of the smoke exited the chimney (I obvioulsy had the door open while I did this).

But about half way through the burn, when the smoke was heaviest, some smoke began to exit the door; the majority though went up the chimney.

There appeared too to be a draft pulling the flame and smoke up into the chimney

 

[Jimbob]

I think the baffle comes out VERY VERY easily on that unit, take it out and look up. If you have a digital camera, take a pic of the flue, and post a pic.

 

[begreen]

Hey rl, forgot to welcome you to the forums! What part of Canada do you hail from?

I would check the top part of the liner and the cap screen (if there is one) for plugging.

 

[radiolatte]

Thanks very much. Eastern Ontario, Between Ottawa and Toronto.

Will do.

 

[gdk84]

Does the complete burn cycle burn this way? Is this gradually getting worse or just one day this happened type of thing?

 

[Hogwildz]

I'm betting the cap/screen is clogged.
Realistically, there should be not need to open the door until read for reload.
After a few years burning in it, you'll have a better feel for what needs and doesn't need to be fiddled with. Not much

 

[skinanbones]

I'll willing to bet that either the screen is clogged or you have a good size mound of ash and dry cresote sitting directly below the liner on the top side of the baffle that is restricting the flu.

 

[radiolatte]

The screen was completely clogged. Used a screw driver to knock out all the sticky debris that was clogging it. Wasn't able to get the cap off (darkness was coming on) though.

I tried a fire later last night, but it failed, so there must be clog further down the pipe. I need to buy/order poles and a brush. Lots of options though (round/oval/square).

What sort of brush is required for an uninsulated 6" stainless steel liner?

 

[radiolatte]

Correction its a 5" stainless steel liner.

 

[radiolatte]

Ive heard alot about the soot eater, but it seems gimmachy...has anyone used this system?

http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5GA-RPS204/SootEater-Rotary-Pellet-Stove-Cleaning-System

 

[begreen]

There are a few folks here using the system for regular touch ups. If the flue is not too bad then it seems to keep up with the cleaning. If the flue is badly gunked up, you are better off having a pro do it top down. Before burning, inspect your system well in daylight to determine what stage creosote accumulation is there. If it is light an fluffy, the sooteater should get most of it. The cap screen will probably need to be cleaned separately.

For more info on the sooteater, check out the Gear forum here. Also, the link provided is for pellet stove pipe. You will need the larger wood stove pipe setup with additional rods to make it to 26ft.
http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5GA-RCH205/SootEater-Rotary-Chimney-Cleaning-System

 

[Sisu]

Ive heard alot about the soot eater, but it seems gimmachy...has anyone used this system?

http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5GA-RPS204/SootEater-Rotary-Pellet-Stove-Cleaning-System

I would just get a proper sized poly chimney brush and fibreglass poles.

I am more concerned about the black soot on the glass and the deposits forming on the cap. To me, those are indications that the wood is not as seasoned as you think. I have a PE Pacific insert and have never had an issue with a clogged cap. There is creosote/ash that forms by the end of the burn season, but not enough to impair the draft. Are you burning occasionally or 24/7?

My PE likes to burn hot, so the glass doesn't blacken and the secondary burn from the baffle usually prevents the travel of creosote. So your wood might not be as dry as you think and/or are shutting the air control down too soon.

 

[radiolatte]

Thanks for that info.

I'll think Ill go the 5" pro sweep (med duty) poly brush and Pro Flex rods from northline. My thinking is that ill start cleaning the unit twice per year, from the top. But for now, will keep researching things, and figuringout how to pop the cap, think it'll just take the right tool, and approach.

 

[begreen]

That's the best. How much wood was burned so far? How long was it seasoned after splitting?

 

[radiolatte]

Well we've had it for a year and a half. We've only burned hardwood, all cut, split and aged for 1.5 to 2 years (from what we've been told by the seller of the wood).

We go through about 1.5 to 2 cords per year (so far). Previous to this we've owned other woodstoves, and fireplaces for about 15 years, but this small vista has been my fav for our needs, and its output.

 

[kalevi]

I've had a vista insert since 2007 and never had a problem like you describe. I have a masonry chimney with an insert just look you. The only time I have dark glass was when my wood was not dry enough. If your wood seller told you the wood is dry, take that with a grain of salt. Get a moisture meter. I had a friend pick one up for me from Harbor Freight for about $15. This one is what they currently carry http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html for $12.99

 

[Sisu]

There might be two factors responsible. First is that never take the seller's word as to the seasoning of the wood. The only way to be certain is by splitting a piece and using a moisture meter. The wood could have been cut and split 2 years ago, but if not properly stacked and stored, a lot of moisture could still be bound in the wood. If you are buying wood to burn, buy it now. That way you can stack it and ensure that it is properly seasoned for the next burn season.

Secondly, it sounds like you burn occasionally vs 24/7. That means that you are doing a lot of cold start ups. The burn is the least efficient during the cold start up stage, which results in more deposits in the liner and cap.

You add the two together and you get a clogged cap and likely a lot of deposits in the chimney liner.

I think that dry wood might be the solution. I only sweep my chimney once a year, after the burn season is over.

 

[begreen]

Sellers frequently exaggerate seasoning claims or they include the time from when a tree that has been downed, but not split in the drying time. The wood doesn't really start drying until it is split and stacked. I strongly recommend purchasing the wood at least a year in advance and stacking it with a cover on top if you are buying wood. Now is a good time to get wood.

 

[radiolatte]

Agreed.

Thanks for the input folks.

It is appreciated. I'll clean the sucker as soon as my brush comes in (2 days) and go from there.

 

[radiolatte]

The brush arrived. Ive attached some pics. Ive removed the baffle (aside from shaking it out, do I need to take this apeart and clean it?).

A whole bunch of soot fell upon removing the baffle.

Link to pic below