I can fully understand manufacturers of products wanting the item returned to the dealer for warranty, such as an automobile or appliance. But in the case of these heavy stoves, I think the dealer needs to be a little more understanding and consider where they are placed. I doubt the average stove dealer has any expertise in welding and fabrication, so when a customer comes forth and says he can find someone willing to do it where it sits, they ought to be willing to entertain that option.
PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof
- Thread starter Hogwildz
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Has anyone found out if you have the firebox cracks rewelded, does it still remain in the lifetime warranty if this should happen again??? I would wonder about other welds cracking too. The ones you cannot see. And just when does the warranty require replacement of the firebox?? After the 2nd weld failure???
Update to the timeline:
Monday October 13, 2009 - I called Cory the warranty guy for PE. We had a good chat and I told him the issues while asking about the 5 year comprehensive in regard to the removal of the firebox. He asked who my dealer was, along with the dealer contact's name, and said he will give them a call. I also mentioned that he should read this thread, just because it better explains everything, if he hadn't already. He just said that he had heard snippets of the thread and asked if I could email the link, which I did.
About a half hour later I got a call from my dealer contact, who was very apologetic and stated that he did not know about the 5 year warranty....???!? He took down all my contact information again, and stated that dealership will remove, transport and repair the firebox. I just have to wait for their technical service guy to call me to schedule the time. I am hoping it will be tomorrow.
Well the clouds have parted a bit and I can see some sun now. I have Karl and BrotherBart to thank for giving me the heads up in regard to the 5 year comprehensive warranty! I am fairly satisfied the outcome so far. No new stove, but the next best thing hopefully. I am still a bit weary of having the same firebox, but if the rewelds are done right it should be as good as a 4 year old stove with some new welds. Hopefully, it will be a bit better. I knew I should have used creosete logs to heat up my uninsulated chicken coup?!
Wacky1, I did ask about the lifetime warranty in regard to a repaired firebox, to PE. They stated that they will honour the warranty still. I just hope I don't get any more cracking issues again, because my 5 year comprehensive warranty will be gone as of 2010. After that, I am assuming I will have to pull out the insert myself... If that happens, PE will really hear about it.
I tried to pm you too Hog and I think the pm is broken right now, because I cannot send any messages. I will keep everyone posted on what happens next. I will take some pictures of the insert, once it has been returned.
It is going to +1 Celsius tonight and -4 Celsius by Friday. Hopefully, the turn around will be fairly quick!
Monday October 13, 2009 - I called Cory the warranty guy for PE. We had a good chat and I told him the issues while asking about the 5 year comprehensive in regard to the removal of the firebox. He asked who my dealer was, along with the dealer contact's name, and said he will give them a call. I also mentioned that he should read this thread, just because it better explains everything, if he hadn't already. He just said that he had heard snippets of the thread and asked if I could email the link, which I did.
About a half hour later I got a call from my dealer contact, who was very apologetic and stated that he did not know about the 5 year warranty....???!? He took down all my contact information again, and stated that dealership will remove, transport and repair the firebox. I just have to wait for their technical service guy to call me to schedule the time. I am hoping it will be tomorrow.
Well the clouds have parted a bit and I can see some sun now. I have Karl and BrotherBart to thank for giving me the heads up in regard to the 5 year comprehensive warranty! I am fairly satisfied the outcome so far. No new stove, but the next best thing hopefully. I am still a bit weary of having the same firebox, but if the rewelds are done right it should be as good as a 4 year old stove with some new welds. Hopefully, it will be a bit better. I knew I should have used creosete logs to heat up my uninsulated chicken coup?!
Wacky1, I did ask about the lifetime warranty in regard to a repaired firebox, to PE. They stated that they will honour the warranty still. I just hope I don't get any more cracking issues again, because my 5 year comprehensive warranty will be gone as of 2010. After that, I am assuming I will have to pull out the insert myself... If that happens, PE will really hear about it.
I tried to pm you too Hog and I think the pm is broken right now, because I cannot send any messages. I will keep everyone posted on what happens next. I will take some pictures of the insert, once it has been returned.
It is going to +1 Celsius tonight and -4 Celsius by Friday. Hopefully, the turn around will be fairly quick!
I too also tried to PM you and others. PM on my end is NOT working AT ALL!! Hint hint to mods. 
I got a call from the dealer today. Apparently Cory kept his word on contacting dealer and moving things along. The dealer explained PE requested the possibility of a mobile welder to come here and weld it where she sits.
Hmm, wonder if Cory has been lurking and reading Thanks Cory
Dealer said, otherwise he would have to come remove it and take to welding shop. And was honest that it would cost more to do that, than have a mobile welder set up come and repair here.
I advised the dealer about my neighbor, and he was cool with that. I told him my neighbor might be able to do it cheaper than the local welder also. I am sure he is happy about that. I explained, I do not want to make a dime on this, only get it fixed right ASAP as its getting colder here. Neighbor came over today and looked at it. Said no problem. He feels the outer corners of the knife edge on the opposite sides of the upper cracks should be welded on the outside also. That there is just not enough weld in the small area. He is going to repair the cracked welds on the inside and also weld the outer corner edges on the opposite side. He said grinding it smooth will not leave much weld left for strength, so I said when the door is shut you can't see it anyways, so no need to grind that part smooth for appearance. The face welds will have to be "V"'d out with a burring tool, since there is no room to get a grinder in there to v it. I was thinking maybe my Dremmel could do it just as well with a grinding bit on the end. I'm thinking one of my chainsaw chain sharpening stones for the Dremmel would do real nice there.
Only problem is, apparently being a Union guy, he goes to work and when the job is done, if they run out of work, he goes to the hall, and gets hooked up with another outfit & so on & so on. Well he no longer has the truck with generator, welder & long leads on it. He has a good welder in his garage, but I will need to install a 220 circuit and receptacle, but not sure if he has a long enough 22o rated extension cord. So I might have to have dealer bring in the mobile unit he uses. I'm cool with it wither way, just want it done. I figured my neighbor has been slow with work, I could help him out, help myself in the process by getting it done by someone I know, and help save the dealer & PE some cash. The dealer also was honest and explained it come out of his pocket, then takes anywhere from 6 months to 1 year to get reimbursed. Not sure if he is talking about problems he had with VC at one time or not.He said PE has a good rep in the business, and he never had a problem before. I advised several members buying in the same time periods are having problems. He said some time certain conditions, steel from other sources etc etc, can happen and a bad batch may come out. Hot common, but can happen in almost any industry. He said he has a problem with Vermont Castings Cast Iron stoves years back. He said he thought for a while they were not using the foundry castings, ot maybe using foreign steel or something and had a group of bad stoves. Apparently VC changed back or made some kind of changes to remedy that problem.
At this point, so far, I am very please with PE & the dealer in what I consider a pretty fairly quick response time, honoring the warranty they have, and the attitude of all parties involved has been kind, friendly, light and easy to deal with. No finger pointing, no bad attitudes, and no blame right off the bat to me and the word overfiring. I was very worried that would be used as an excuse and shoved down my throat. Didn't happen.
Dealer is going to call in a day or so after he calls the welding shop for a price to come out & repair. I will then see if my neighbor can do it, maybe cheaper, and then have one or the other come repair the insert.
I did not hear anything back about the baffle. I will ask. But right now, I want to get the welds fixed and if need be, I'll use this baffle until/unless it gets worse. I forgot to mention it ti Cory, and the email with photos I sent him are being bounced back by their server. I Don't thinki its PE, I have this problem once in a while even with work. My satellite internet uses google based email, and apparently some other email servers reject it due to spam problems.
I'll keep everything posted as it happens.
Cory, thanks again if your reading, and send a new baffle
I got a call from the dealer today. Apparently Cory kept his word on contacting dealer and moving things along. The dealer explained PE requested the possibility of a mobile welder to come here and weld it where she sits.
Hmm, wonder if Cory has been lurking and reading
Thanks CoryDealer said, otherwise he would have to come remove it and take to welding shop. And was honest that it would cost more to do that, than have a mobile welder set up come and repair here.
I advised the dealer about my neighbor, and he was cool with that. I told him my neighbor might be able to do it cheaper than the local welder also. I am sure he is happy about that. I explained, I do not want to make a dime on this, only get it fixed right ASAP as its getting colder here. Neighbor came over today and looked at it. Said no problem. He feels the outer corners of the knife edge on the opposite sides of the upper cracks should be welded on the outside also. That there is just not enough weld in the small area. He is going to repair the cracked welds on the inside and also weld the outer corner edges on the opposite side. He said grinding it smooth will not leave much weld left for strength, so I said when the door is shut you can't see it anyways, so no need to grind that part smooth for appearance. The face welds will have to be "V"'d out with a burring tool, since there is no room to get a grinder in there to v it. I was thinking maybe my Dremmel could do it just as well with a grinding bit on the end. I'm thinking one of my chainsaw chain sharpening stones for the Dremmel would do real nice there.
Only problem is, apparently being a Union guy, he goes to work and when the job is done, if they run out of work, he goes to the hall, and gets hooked up with another outfit & so on & so on. Well he no longer has the truck with generator, welder & long leads on it. He has a good welder in his garage, but I will need to install a 220 circuit and receptacle, but not sure if he has a long enough 22o rated extension cord. So I might have to have dealer bring in the mobile unit he uses. I'm cool with it wither way, just want it done. I figured my neighbor has been slow with work, I could help him out, help myself in the process by getting it done by someone I know, and help save the dealer & PE some cash. The dealer also was honest and explained it come out of his pocket, then takes anywhere from 6 months to 1 year to get reimbursed. Not sure if he is talking about problems he had with VC at one time or not.He said PE has a good rep in the business, and he never had a problem before. I advised several members buying in the same time periods are having problems. He said some time certain conditions, steel from other sources etc etc, can happen and a bad batch may come out. Hot common, but can happen in almost any industry. He said he has a problem with Vermont Castings Cast Iron stoves years back. He said he thought for a while they were not using the foundry castings, ot maybe using foreign steel or something and had a group of bad stoves. Apparently VC changed back or made some kind of changes to remedy that problem.
At this point, so far, I am very please with PE & the dealer in what I consider a pretty fairly quick response time, honoring the warranty they have, and the attitude of all parties involved has been kind, friendly, light and easy to deal with. No finger pointing, no bad attitudes, and no blame right off the bat to me and the word overfiring. I was very worried that would be used as an excuse and shoved down my throat. Didn't happen.
Dealer is going to call in a day or so after he calls the welding shop for a price to come out & repair. I will then see if my neighbor can do it, maybe cheaper, and then have one or the other come repair the insert.
I did not hear anything back about the baffle. I will ask. But right now, I want to get the welds fixed and if need be, I'll use this baffle until/unless it gets worse. I forgot to mention it ti Cory, and the email with photos I sent him are being bounced back by their server. I Don't thinki its PE, I have this problem once in a while even with work. My satellite internet uses google based email, and apparently some other email servers reject it due to spam problems.
I'll keep everything posted as it happens.
Cory, thanks again if your reading, and send a new baffle
madrone
Minister of Fire
Hogwildz said:
Dremel's a little wimpy for this application. Die grinder with a carbide burr would be preferable. I'd agree based on the pics that rewelding should be relatively straightforward, and remain problem free if done well.
Glad to hear it's being worked out. I'll go back to dreaming of a Vista Classic...
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
Sisu said:Update to the timeline:
Monday October 13, 2009 - I called Cory the warranty guy for PE. We had a good chat and I told him the issues while asking about the 5 year comprehensive in regard to the removal of the firebox. He asked who my dealer was, along with the dealer contact's name, and said he will give them a call. I also mentioned that he should read this thread, just because it better explains everything, if he hadn't already. He just said that he had heard snippets of the thread and asked if I could email the link, which I did.
About a half hour later I got a call from my dealer contact, who was very apologetic and stated that he did not know about the 5 year warranty....???!? He took down all my contact information again, and stated that dealership will remove, transport and repair the firebox. I just have to wait for their technical service guy to call me to schedule the time. I am hoping it will be tomorrow.
Well the clouds have parted a bit and I can see some sun now. I have Karl and BrotherBart to thank for giving me the heads up in regard to the 5 year comprehensive warranty! I am fairly satisfied the outcome so far. No new stove, but the next best thing hopefully. I am still a bit weary of having the same firebox, but if the rewelds are done right it should be as good as a 4 year old stove with some new welds. Hopefully, it will be a bit better. I knew I should have used creosete logs to heat up my uninsulated chicken coup?!
Wacky1, I did ask about the lifetime warranty in regard to a repaired firebox, to PE. They stated that they will honour the warranty still. I just hope I don't get any more cracking issues again, because my 5 year comprehensive warranty will be gone as of 2010. After that, I am assuming I will have to pull out the insert myself... If that happens, PE will really hear about it.
I tried to pm you too Hog and I think the pm is broken right now, because I cannot send any messages. I will keep everyone posted on what happens next. I will take some pictures of the insert, once it has been returned.
It is going to +1 Celsius tonight and -4 Celsius by Friday. Hopefully, the turn around will be fairly quick!
Good deal!! This is going to be comforting to know they stand behind their product!! Not to mention good advertising for them ;-)
Bigg_Redd said:
Who are the PE doubters/haters? Even the people on here that don't have one seem to speak highly of them. Unlike one guy who badmouths soapstone stoves. :lol:
Wacky1 said:
Any stove I have/have had that I burned with a screen and the door open never even got up to normal operating temp. Too much cool air rushing right into it and up the flue. Just like a fireplace. To warm the stove and the house up I always had to close the door.
That is why I quit using screens.
Update:
Wednesday, October 14, 2009:
I received a call from the service guy from the dealership. He said that they will come and take the stove Friday afternoon. I asked if I need to do anything (ie. remove the panel, etc.). He said that they will do everything! The welder won't be able to see the firebox until Monday. But hopefully it won't take too long!
A note to the mods: I am still unable to send Private Messages. I get the error message "You are only allowed to send a Private Message every 30 seconds" I think Hog is having the same problem.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009:
I received a call from the service guy from the dealership. He said that they will come and take the stove Friday afternoon. I asked if I need to do anything (ie. remove the panel, etc.). He said that they will do everything!
The welder won't be able to see the firebox until Monday. But hopefully it won't take too long!A note to the mods: I am still unable to send Private Messages. I get the error message "You are only allowed to send a Private Message every 30 seconds" I think Hog is having the same problem.
Hogwildz said:BrotherBart said:
If we can't PM< how the heck are we gonna send him a note?
1: get a piece of paper
2: get a pencil
3 write down your thoughts
4: place written on piece of paper in an envelope
5 seal envelope
6: put webmaster's name and address on envelope
7: put stamp on envelope
8: put in mail box
9: put the flag up
The post office not just for bills anymore ;-P
crazy_dan said:Hogwildz said:BrotherBart said:
If we can't PM< how the heck are we gonna send him a note?
1: get a piece of paper
2: get a pencil
3 write down your thoughts
4: place written on piece of paper in an envelope
5 seal envelope
6: put webmaster's name and address on envelope
7: put stamp on envelope
8: put in mail box
9: put the flag up
The post office not just for bills anymore ;-P
Thats not a note, notes are free, thats a letter & postage
Hogwildz said:BrotherBart said:
If we can't PM< how the heck are we gonna send him a note?
When you click on his name the item above "PM" is "EMAIL". Send him an email. Failing that send an email to webmaster AT hearth.com.
Hey Everyone,
Just a quick update. The dealer service guy was here this past Friday October 16, 2009 and took the firebox. He had a good look at the stove and I identified all the areas that I observed with the cracks. One interesting comment is that he said that the unit did not look like it was overfired, due to the fact the side rails, insulation and other parts of the unit (other than the baffle) were in perfect shape. He also runs a PE Pacific insert, but his is only two years old.
So it should be in the welder's hands now and hopefully it won't be too hard of a job. I am not sure if I should install a block off plate, now that the unit is out. The insert is in the basement fireplace and the fireplace is constructed masonry block, with a field stove exterior. The masonry extends to the ground floor, where another fireplace is holding a gas insert. The whole construction is internal, located at about 1/3 the length of the house (a bungalow) and extends up close to the center peak of the roof. Currently the void around the liner at fireplace is stuffed with Roxul insulation.
Past winters, the stove would heat the chimney extending to the ground floor, radiating some of the heat. I am not sure if the block-off plate would be more efficient use of the heat, since I am trying to get the heat to the ground floor. What do you think?
Just a quick update. The dealer service guy was here this past Friday October 16, 2009 and took the firebox. He had a good look at the stove and I identified all the areas that I observed with the cracks. One interesting comment is that he said that the unit did not look like it was overfired, due to the fact the side rails, insulation and other parts of the unit (other than the baffle) were in perfect shape. He also runs a PE Pacific insert, but his is only two years old.
So it should be in the welder's hands now and hopefully it won't be too hard of a job. I am not sure if I should install a block off plate, now that the unit is out. The insert is in the basement fireplace and the fireplace is constructed masonry block, with a field stove exterior. The masonry extends to the ground floor, where another fireplace is holding a gas insert. The whole construction is internal, located at about 1/3 the length of the house (a bungalow) and extends up close to the center peak of the roof. Currently the void around the liner at fireplace is stuffed with Roxul insulation.
Past winters, the stove would heat the chimney extending to the ground floor, radiating some of the heat. I am not sure if the block-off plate would be more efficient use of the heat, since I am trying to get the heat to the ground floor. What do you think?
CK-1
Feeling the Heat
- Feb 10, 2006
- 259
Sisu said:
Its good that the ball is now rolling to get these stoves fixed. Before you handed over your firebox, did you mark the cracks on the stove?.. Reason is.. the service guy isn't welding your stove. See if you can atleast inspect the stove at the welders shop when its done.
CK-1 said:
I didn't mark the areas, but I identified all the areas in need of repair with the dealer service guy. I asked if I should mark the areas, but he assured me that the welder will clean, inspect and repair all the spots. As the welder is pretty far away, I don't think I will be able to inspect the firebox, until it gets back to me. Rest assured though, I will inspect it before it is unloaded from the van and will send it back if the repairs are not complete.
Any advice about installing a block-off plate?
Sisu said:
Usually a block off plate is recommended. But in your case, your taking advantage of the heat being absorbed by the stone & radiating upstairs from the basement.
If you don't use the gas fireplace upstairs, You might want to put a block off plate on the upper firebox to keep the heat from traveling any further. Is this an interior or exterior chimney?
You might be losing heat to the outside through the stone. Might want to compare if the heat will raise better on its own through the doorway to the basement as opposed to the stone upstairs radiating it out, but also radiating it to the outdoors?
Hogwildz said:
It is an interior chimney. It is as old as the house, built in 1960. It is quite large and has three separate individual flues, one for the downstairs fireplace, the second for the groundfloor fireplace, and third for the gas furnace and water heater exhaust. All are capped and sealed at the top of the chimney. The only cold zones it encounters is where it protrudes into the attic and out the roof.
I rarely ever use the gas fireplace, but I want the heat from the woodstove to travel to the groundfloor. Probably be to have the woodstove insert on the groundfloor. However, I don't want to have to deal with the moving of gaslines and this was the configuration when we bought the house. Also, it is finished basement. We use the basement den where the woodstove insert is, so the heat is nice there.
I did notice during the last burning days this spring that when the downstairs wood insert was running, heated air was noticable within the groundfloor fireplace firebox area and flue, when I removed the surround from the gas insert. The inside masonry and air was warm in the groundfloor fireplace, even though they occupy separate flues. I also noticed that there was no insulation around the void of the gas insert liner, so I filled the void with Roxul insulation. I am not sure if that was beneficial or will it just trap the heated air in the chimney flue and prevent it from entering the groundfloor.
I guess my question is two-fold. 1. Block-off plate or just leave it stuffed with Roxul and let the heat radiate from the chimney; and 2. Should the groundfloor gas insert have insulation around the liner?
Just another update. I phoned the dealer on Friday to find out if the welder had repaired the firebox yet. They didn't know, but being the end of day, they said that they would phone the welder on Monday. I called the dealer twice on Monday and finally spoke to the person I had contacted on Friday. She stated that the welder hasn't touched it yet. She did say that their service guy will have a word with the welder today, to see if things can be expedited.
Hopefully, I will hear some good news soon. I am going through some wood-heat withdrawls?!
Hopefully, I will hear some good news soon. I am going through some wood-heat withdrawls?!
madrone
Minister of Fire
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